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PLATO
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Of the occupied South
Dec 2002
time: 23:22
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Latest conversation with ormuzd.
PLATO says:
Greetings Great Leader of the Ankh-Morpork!
Todor says:
hello, respected Blood Oath Horde Ambassador
PLATO says:
How are things in your honored nation?
Todor says:
pretty well.
The people are very happy and highly entusiastic with every new knowledge about about other tribes and distant lands
Todor says:
what about you?
PLATO says:
Our Horde is also very happy and enthusiastic! We live in a great world with equally great neighbors!
PLATO says:
Do you have time to discuss a few details?
Todor says:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/ubb.x?a=t...92&m=9211016203
Todor says:
yes, of course
PLATO says:
Do you mind if I record this for the benefit of my Horde?
Todor says:
no
PLATO says:
Great!
Todor says:
you can cite me
PLATO says:
hehe
Todor says:
are you familiar with demo games?
PLATO says:
We desire an improvement in our relations with your people
Todor says:
have played any before?
PLATO says:
Well, This is my very first one. They are highly addictive, I have discovered
Todor says:
indeed
it's very fun, especially whne you play with such people as Paddy
Todor says:
so, back to business
PLATO says:
The Khan is a great Leader for sure!
Todor says:
I think our relations were cld so far but still based on repect to each other
PLATO says:
Yes, to business. We would like to have a strong relationship with your people
Todor says:
there was little tension when we first met (I think you wasn't member of the team at thet time)
Todor says:
the first thing for a stron relationship is the trust
PLATO says:
Yes, there was some tension. Beginnings are sometimes difficult. But out of this tension, strength of friendship could grow.
PLATO says:
I agree. I believe that there are some things we can do to build that trust
Todor says:
I'd like to have trust to each other
i.e. when we say 20 turns NAP, this means 20 turns no war, not even try for a war
and not to invade with 60 cavalries on the 21st for example
Todor says:
I don't mind if you destroy us but you have to do it honorably
PLATO says:
haha. Wish we could have 60 cav in 20 turns
Todor says:
it was just an example
Todor says:
so, on the serious side now
Todor says:
it's still the beginnning. It seems everyone has two close neighbours
PLATO says:
we do not wish your destruction. We wish your friendship
Todor says:
we have pretty bad territory to expand
Todor says:
I have some ideas for our mutual advantage
PLATO says:
We have not explored all the area south of you. Are you limited there for your expansion?
Todor says:
we may do a research plans to help each other advance faster
we should set a border agreement
PLATO says:
Do tell. The Horde would love to hear your suggestions
Todor says:
there are jungles between us and this means they will be last settled territories - so we have enough time to handle this matter
PLATO says:
All matters are open for discussion with the Horde. Do you have some specifics I could take back to my council?
Todor says:
no, not yet
Todor says:
we need to discuss this in our team and me or Krill will send you a message
Todor says:
it seems you are the most advanced team now
PLATO says:
There are barbarians in the jungle north of you. We would like to rid that area of their evil. As a trust building measure, we would like your acent to this
Todor says:
you have all techs we have too. It seems you are missing the Math and Polytheism
I didn't make any research about Philo, Lit, etc.
PLATO says:
Ahh yes, The Horde is fortunate in these matters
Todor says:
oh, ..
Todor says:
have you moved your consript south?
PLATO says:
He is on a mission of exploration. As expansionist, we have a particular appetite for huts. lol. Is he a problem to your people being so near?
Todor says:
nope
But I was thinking he will be in danger
Todor says:
I was going to warn you but by connection failed last night
PLATO says:
Danger?
Todor says:
We are well defended for now, so no problem
but are moving workers and settlers here and there and we would like to be sure you'll not attack any of them
PLATO says:
Our warrior is on a peaceful mission. You can be assured of your people's safety from him. If you would like, we can move him north away from your people. Of course we would like to keep exploring, but would be happy to reassure your people of his peaceful nature
Todor says:
no probelm - continue your explorations
if a metter arises we will inform you
Todor says:
but Egyptian people are not paranoic
PLATO says:
haha. we did not feel so. I look forward to a good relationship.
PLATO says:
Sadly, I must begin my work day. I look very much forward to continuing this discussion.
Todor says:
why didn't you feel so?
Todor says:
I did not understand
Todor says:
have a nice day
we may talk later
Todor says:
I usually finish my work two hours later
but today is a holyday
PLATO says:
We know from your previous communication with our Horde that your people deal from strength...the type of neighbors and friends we desire.
PLATO says:
I will be back in touch very soon. Enjoy your time off!
Todor says:
thanks
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PLATO
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Of the occupied South
Dec 2002
time: 23:22
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The objectives are proceeding nicely:
Todor says:
hey, plato, how are you?
what happened to your proposals? shall we synchronize tech trades?
PLATO says:
hey ormuzd! Doing great. Early morning here. Just having that first cup of coffee!
Todor says:
didn't want to put pressure, just reminding
anyway I'll be away from civ until tomorrow
PLATO says:
No pressure my friend. Which proposal are you refering to?
Todor says:
I think you had some ideas previous time we have talked
With Krill's PC fixed our team is in full strength and we may take a quick decision about anythingin this game
PLATO says:
Yes, we do have some ideas to try to build the relationship between our two great nations. If you have a specific offer, I am sure that the council will look upon it favorably.
PLATO says:
glad to hear about Krill, BTW
Todor says:
we are trying to learn as much as possible about the world, in particular the lands between us. When we have enough knowledge we will send a border proposal
PLATO says:
We shall look forward to receiving it.
Todor says:
about the techs - we are going to research litarature now
what are researching now? we may trade for our mutual benefit
Todor says:
if you have explored enough you may send a proposal too
PLATO says:
I believe that we may be on Math...not sure. The save has been moving so slow of late. i will find out for sure and let you know next time we are online together. We are interested in some possible tech trades however
PLATO says:
Can I ask you a bit of an unrelated question?
Todor says:
of course, ask
PLATO says:
As you may be aware, my responsibilities also include your close neighbors, the Babylonians. I am having some difficulty in contacting there ambassador. Is there any information on them you could help me out with?
Todor says:
I don't know
Krill is handling usually the correspondence with the other teams
he has contacted them two days ago (just before they stopped playing) and there was no word from them since
PLATO says:
Hmmm...They have two warriors in close proximity to our boarders. I would very much like to find out their intentions. Are your relations good with them?
Todor says:
yes, very good actually
we are trying to achieve some agreements now
Todor says:
why are so scared with warriors near your borders? you have two at our border
and you have reacted very aggrisevely earlier
PLATO says:
That is good. Hopefully, we will be able to become friendly with them as well.
Todor says:
they are peaceful and they have said this at the start (just the opposite of some other teams )
PLATO says:
Well, Our reaction was more defensive really. We are sorry that we appeared agressive. First there was your warrior following our settler and then two Babylonian warriors appear. We hoped it was just exploring, but felt that we needed all to know that we were capable of defending ourselves. Beginnings are somtimes difficult...
PLATO says:
Yes, speaking of that "other" team (), do you have any idea what they may be up to?
Todor says:
no, first was we wanted to explore as much as possible before your culture has reached 10
but your ambassador reacted almost paranoically
we have followed your settler long after this
Todor says:
we are expecting some archers from the "other" team to be honest
PLATO says:
Hmmmm...Archers are not good. I would imagine that they would be heading toward your Babylonian neighbors first though. Wouldn't you think?
Todor says:
it's good to be prepared for a storm and where there is none, this will double the pleasure
PLATO says:
Indeed. That was our philosophy as well. lol.
Todor says:
I don't know
the first target is usually the neighbour
PLATO says:
Perhaps we can set up some type of early warning system for our two civs?
Todor says:
yeah, it seems a good idea
PLATO says:
I am sure that we would be willing to commit a couple of warriors or scouts to move in that direction to watch the approaches on the northern side if you would be willing to do the same on the southern side.
Todor says:
I'll save this chat and will put it on the forum just in any case
I'll answer after this
PLATO says:
Very good. I will do the same. Perhaps we can both offer suggestions as to exact placement for optimal coverage.
PLATO says:
I am very pleased that our two great nations can co-operate on this matter.
Todor says:
so do I
The future with a good neighbour seems quite well
PLATO says:
Indeed it does. Thanks ormuzd. Until next time then, my friend
Todor says:
have a nice day
PLATO says:
And you as well.
Todor says:
thanks
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PLATO
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Of the occupied South
Dec 2002
time: 23:22
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The Response of the Horde:
quote:
Greetings Krill,
Am I to assume that you are now assuming the Ambassadorial duties for Ankh-Morpork? Perhaps some internal communication with ormuzd could confirm our understanding on a couple of points.
First, we have communicated about the nature of our warriors in the vicinity of your lands. Ormuzd had seemed to indicate that their mission of exploration was acceptable. May I ask why this would have changed?
Second, the final time that ormuzd and I had spoken (which was several days ago I might add) we had discussed setting up an "Early Warning" system against any Desolation Row warriors heading toward our side of the world. He indicated that a response would be forthcoming...yet still no answer. Given the positive nature of the conversation, we have obviously positioned troops to be able to hold up our end of the bargain.
Are we to now understand that this proposal is rejected and that you wish us to move our troops away from positions in international land? Your message was not very well received by the Khan and his faithful were not very pleased by the tone of it. Your government’s recent silence, after being offered co-operation, has raised questions about your intentions and thus prompted us to fortify our warrior upon the iron mountain. For the time being, we believe it prudent to leave him at his post until these matters are clarified.
At this point, I must advise my government that we should require further explanation from your government on this change in the peaceful tone of relations that both our nations had been enjoying.
Until such explanation is obtained, I am afraid that I must also advise against any tech deals. We are hopeful that your explanation will provide insight that may clear this matter up.
I remain,
PLATO
Ambassador of the Horde
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Paddy the Scot
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Hordeland
Mar 2001
time: 14:22
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quote:
Krill wrote on 20-04-2005 07:13 am:
OK, let me reply to your email in pieces. It is propably the only way my reply will be understoood...
quote:
Am I to assume that you are now assuming the Ambassadorial duties for Ankh-Morpork? Perhaps some internal communication with ormuzd could confirm our understanding on a couple of points. |
It is best to send any message that is to be sent by either PM or Email to both of us, but Ormuzd can bee reached via yahoo, ICQ and MSN. I normaly write the diplomatic messages, bacause I am the better at English (although it does not seem so at times, even though it is my mother tongue  )
quote:
First, we have communicated about the nature of our warriors in the vicinity of your lands. Ormuzd had seemed to indicate that their mission of exploration was acceptable. May I ask why this would have changed? |
Nothing has changed. We understand why you want to have you warriors scout around us, and we accept that, so long as they don't enter our territory.
quote:
Second, the final time that ormuzd and I had spoken (which was several days ago I might add) we had discussed setting up an "Early Warning" system against any Desolation Row warriors heading toward our side of the world. He indicated that a response would be forthcoming...yet still no answer. Given the positive nature of the conversation, we have obviously positioned troops to be able to hold up our end of the bargain. |
I'm sorry, I was never informed of this, or are you talking about the Early warning system around the Babs? We can help you there. If you move Baatar warrior 3223, you have an overlook of the babs northern most city, and if you move Becks Beer Boys 33336, or 3333322, you will be sitting on a mountain that can see within the Babs borders western most borders, and Heavy axes can move 3333, which puts all northward expansion under watch. Feel free to move to thoose locations.
quote:
Are we to now understand that this proposal is rejected and that you wish us to move our troops away from positions in international land? Your message was not very well received by the Khan and his faithful were not very pleased by the tone of it. Your government’s recent silence, after being offered co-operation, has raised questions about your intentions and thus prompted us to fortify our warrior upon the iron mountain. For the time being, we believe it prudent to leave him at his post until these matters are clarified. |
See above, but for one Addendum: the Iron mountain itself is not exactly neutral ground. We don't have a problem with you forting on other hills or mountains, given that they are not within our borders (we would of course give notification if we were to settle adjacent to one of your outposts).
quote:
At this point, I must advise my government that we should require further explanation from your government on this change in the peaceful tone of relations that both our nations had been enjoying. |
Just because you are paranoid does not mean they are are not out to get you. Basically, camping on someones iron/horses is considered either a prelude, or an act of, war. We, just as you, don't want this to happen ever between our two great nations.
quote:
Until such explanation is obtained, I am afraid that I must also advise against any tech deals. We are hopeful that your explanation will provide insight that may clear this matter up. |
I hope this is enough of an explanation.
Krill (also sent to PLATO)
P.S. We will send you very soon a proposal for border agreement although we have not full information about the territories between us.
Obviously you have access to more technologies than us but you don't have all  . Could we work a tech trade agreement? We are finishing Math research soon.
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Paddy the Scot
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Hordeland
Mar 2001
time: 14:22
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a contact from Krill
was not going to post, but then thought I had better.
-------------------------------------
quote:
There is only one question that I have for you. What was that I said that was insulting?
And this is aa personal PM, not some diplomatic exchange. I asking this as a friend.
Krill
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Hi there Krill
Krill, personally I have no issues with you. You ask of an insult, I feel no insult of your words or actions.
As to the C3CDG, that is indeed a seperate matter, and at that I have little to say, due to the fact that I have a whole Foriegn Affairs department - "The Blood Cell", and they are well staffed for dealing with Diplomatic issues. As to the statements of war, well matey, between you and I, war is war... and many people, hours and resources have been spent of the dilemma of this situation. We are playing a democracy game, and I understand that you only have two active players in your team, where as we have a few more. So as in all democracies, many decisions need to be made, and not everyone will like the consequences, sadly enough. As to actual issues on the war and any diplomacy, I need to stand back and allow the appropriate people in the "Blood cell" to do their work. My duties as the Khan require this. Otherwise we could have confusion instead of order, as I am sure you would understand.
Yet this be a personal message right? so please know that I, Paddy the Scot, member of Apolyton, am not personally insulted by you or your actions.
If this was a request through the appropriate channels regarding the C3CDG War between our nations, and you were then asking me, Paddy Khan of the Blood Oath Horde, why I was insulted by the way my Ambassador to your nation has been treated, believe me that you may find a reply heading your way. I be a fair leader, yet I also be a WarLord, and lead a Warrior Tribe who play the Horde Games with vengence within our own communities. So hard do we play these the Horde Games that it is all but a pitched battle on the fields between neighbouring towns. So if we are to play games amongst ourselves with such passion and might, so to you should expect that we would deal with our neighbouring Nations in a similar manner. And if that be so, we would not appreciatte such ways as our people have been treated.
Ahhh but then this was a personal message, so be well Krill,
Paddy
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Paddy the Scot
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Hordeland
Mar 2001
time: 14:22
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Ormuzd says: (04:07 PM) :
sbout c3c dg
Ormuzd says: (04:07 PM) :
what means to surrender?
Paddy says: (04:26 PM) :
hello matey
Ormuzd says: (04:28 PM) :
plato is not online and I have just read the dg forum
Ormuzd says: (04:29 PM) :
and wondered what did you mean with this surrender
Paddy says: (04:29 PM) :
which thread ?
Paddy says: (04:29 PM) :
that be fine,
Paddy says: (04:30 PM) :
many ideas come to mind
Paddy says: (04:30 PM) :
do you have a few minutes to discuss
Ormuzd says: (04:30 PM) :
yes
Paddy says: (04:30 PM) :
thank you
Paddy says: (04:31 PM) :
I was unsure if you were still talking with me :'(
Ormuzd says: (04:31 PM) :
this is the usual weapon of the women
Ormuzd says: (04:32 PM) :
at least of those I know
Paddy says: (04:32 PM) :
what do you mean
Ormuzd says: (04:32 PM) :
to stop talking when they are disappointed (with me)
Paddy says: (04:32 PM) :
oh ok
Paddy says: (04:32 PM) :
ok, surrender
we have a simple way of it.
You stand your troops down, and we occupy your lands
your people become Horde
Ormuzd says: (04:36 PM) :
aha, fine
Ormuzd says: (04:36 PM) :
do you really expect that we will do this?
Paddy says: (04:37 PM) :
no
Paddy says: (04:37 PM) :
but I must be honest with you
Ormuzd says: (04:37 PM) :
I'll try to translate the words of one of my predcessors - he was a real Khan
Paddy says: (04:37 PM) :
what would you offer
Ormuzd says: (04:38 PM) :
'You have taken what you could, now leave our territories'
Paddy says: (04:38 PM) :
Thank you for that quotation
Ormuzd says: (04:39 PM) :
what did yo mean with this "but I must be honest with you"?
Paddy says: (04:41 PM) :
you ask what did the Horde mean by surrender, I told you, why make it look sweeter than it is.
thus be honest from start of negotiation
Ormuzd says: (04:41 PM) :
I see, thanks
Ormuzd says: (04:42 PM) :
you expected to take us with 5 warriors?
Paddy says: (04:42 PM) :
5 warriors have done quite a bit
Ormuzd says: (04:42 PM) :
just because I didn't expect such cowardness...
after the last time I've told to myself never to trust to a human opponent
Paddy says: (04:43 PM) :
cowardness?
Ormuzd says: (04:43 PM) :
but I said - "It's Paddy says:. There are other members but he is their chief, hewill not allow such shamous deeds"
Ormuzd says: (04:43 PM) :
of course
Ormuzd says: (04:44 PM) :
PLATO said your warriors are only scouting, they are not going to war
Paddy says: (04:44 PM) :
where was I a coward
Ormuzd says: (04:44 PM) :
saying peaceful mission and attacking... this makes me so disappointed
not the attack by itself
Paddy says: (04:46 PM) :
Lord Ormuzd says:, we were peaceful until the demands of your nation were too much.
Ormuzd says: (04:47 PM) :
too much? what was too much? toleave us space to breathe? to take he only source of iron we could see?
Paddy says: (04:49 PM) :
Space to breathe, of that would have been a pleasure indeed
yet many a communication with your people was rebuffed, and then your nation started to dictate to our Warriors that were in International Land.
Then, and yes then you settled around a fortified Warrior of ours, the late Heavy Axes
Ormuzd says: (04:51 PM) :
when did we stop respond to your requests? what have we done to make you feel we do not treat you as friends?
Ormuzd says: (04:53 PM) :
krill being an English doesn't excuse him but there are many non-English native speakers around
you can't blame for not exact expressing
Paddy says: (04:53 PM) :
please understand that I sit here in my car along war from such files
these would definitly be issues for my foriegn affairs people "the Blood Cell" to provide
Ormuzd says: (04:53 PM) :
that's why we have clarified what do we want from your warriors
Ormuzd says: (04:54 PM) :
oh, sorry
we may continue when you have more time
Paddy says: (04:55 PM) :
I have the time now my friend, just not every detail :-)
Ormuzd says: (04:56 PM) :
maybe I didn't understand quite well your last post
Paddy says: (04:57 PM) :
You asked for details of previous correspodense etc
I do not have such access here is what I meant
Ormuzd says: (04:58 PM) :
ah, ok
Ormuzd says: (04:59 PM) :
I don't have them either
but they were between me and ljube, after this plato
Paddy says: (05:04 PM) :
sorry phone call
Paddy says: (05:04 PM) :
Ok without us getting lost in the details of how and why our Grand Nations are now at war
and before we get back to the issue of Surender
I would like to ask your opinion on this question, would you consider it war if someone built a settlement next to a warrior of yours that was fortified?
Ormuzd says: (05:12 PM) :
in this case - no
Ormuzd says: (05:12 PM) :
just as I removed the warrior when you settled right before him
Paddy says: (05:12 PM) :
Thank you for your response
Ormuzd says: (05:13 PM) :
if it were a place near both borders, I could think for an attack because the opportunity is good
Ormuzd says: (05:13 PM) :
because it is us or they
but this land was so far away from you that you should not even think about settling there
Paddy says: (05:14 PM) :
Indeed you make a good statement
and it leads me to think you and I should have spent many times before now discussing and building our Nations closer
Ormuzd says: (05:15 PM) :
damn
is it only because of last message from krill?
Paddy says: (05:15 PM) :
It is the nature of such times and with more than two people that make us a Horde, and a Horde with desires and certainly with EGO
Ormuzd says: (05:16 PM) :
I have prepared a tech agreement, border agreement
and everything is ruined
Paddy says: (05:16 PM) :
yes, that last message from Krill was indeed the catalyst
Paddy says: (05:16 PM) :
that is indeed a shame
Paddy says: (05:17 PM) :
for now your people have been grieviously hurt
and my warriors Blooded
Paddy says: (05:17 PM) :
a dangerous time indeed
Paddy says: (05:28 PM) :
have you finished with me here Lord Ormuzd says:?
or shall we hear some of your thoughts on Surrender?
Ormuzd says: (05:30 PM) :
of, sorry
I was distracted with such trivial things like work
Ormuzd says: (05:30 PM) :
no, I think we have finished
I'll give a choice
Ormuzd says: (05:30 PM) :
1. leave with your spoils
Ormuzd says: (05:31 PM) :
2. capture more cities and workers of ours; probably generating great leader
Ormuzd says: (05:31 PM) :
(even capturing cities)
Ormuzd says: (05:31 PM) :
3. loose all your troops and get a food for the carrions (because the other teams do not sleep as I have understood last night)
Paddy says: (05:33 PM) :
any more?
Ormuzd says: (05:34 PM) :
anything you could imagine
Paddy says: (05:34 PM) :
for I see nothing there that comes near your terms of surrender
Ormuzd says: (05:35 PM) :
the best option for me is 1, next best 3, than anything you propose, complete surrender (not an option) and option 2
Ormuzd says: (05:35 PM) :
we will NOT surrender
this is it
Paddy says: (05:35 PM) :
Thank you for this chat
Paddy says: (05:36 PM) :
Until we talk again
Paddy says: (05:36 PM) :
May your people honour your decisions
Ormuzd says: (05:36 PM) :
have a nice day/evening
Ormuzd says: (05:36 PM) :
honor? by Ankh-Morpork? you must be kidding
we are survivors... :0
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06-04-2005 06:20
Attachment: 
Well done indeed
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