19-06-2005 18:18									#151
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quote: Originally posted by Thorgal About the Michelin question, it would end with all michelin teams sanctioned becuase a tyre change before the race. So, we would see Ferrari some laps ahead and Jordans and Minardis holding all the field behind them.

Not necesserarily. If all the teams change tyres, FIA may consider it a force majeure due to safety reasons. But Ferrari will scream their heads off if this happens...

	19-06-2005 23:08									#152
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Only 6 cars on the grid... This is a ****ing disgrace and a travesty of the the sport. The spectators should demand reimbursement from FIA and Michelin... ****!!!

	19-06-2005 23:11									#153
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@ F1

	19-06-2005 23:28									#155
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What happenes if there is only one car left. Do they stop the race and declare the driver winner or they wait untill he completes all the remaining laps.

Throwing bottles on the track

	19-06-2005 23:42									#156
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Grotesque, apocalyptic, dantesque...

	19-06-2005 23:44									#157
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Sir Og, there isn´t a precedent for this. Something like this has never happened before. There was a driver strike in 1980, but that wasn´t nearly as bad as this...

And once again Ferrari shows their utter disregard for the fans and the sport. 9 of 10 teams said it would be ok to add a chicane in turn 12 and 13. Ferrari refused of course and they deserve to have some bottles thrown in their path...

	19-06-2005 23:51									#158
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Maybe Ferrari deserves "Ferrari suxz hairy donkey balls!" posters but throwing bottles is not right IMO. It can cause a serious accident.

	19-06-2005 23:59									#159
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Yeah, I guess...

	20-06-2005 00:30									#160
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Why the fark should Ferrari give a sh*t? They did not cause the problem.

Hell, if you're going to be mad, be mad at Jordan and Minardi for being two-faced about the issue.

	20-06-2005 00:32									#161
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Best part to now (reading a book with telly in background) was when Michael forced Barichello off the track after a pitstop

Also good to see Stoddard give a on live TV - I agree. Minardi didn't want to race but when Jordan did, they were forced to do it also.

Wonder if there will be the usual champagne and post interview ?

	20-06-2005 00:33									#162
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Above all they have to drive.. there ARE visitors who paid a lot of money to see a race. Sure, it's not a real race, but the other teams don't have any reason not to drive, so how would they be able to explain this to the spectators?

	20-06-2005 00:33									#163
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They'll do the interview, but I think the ceremony will be modest.

	20-06-2005 01:03									#164
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quote: Originally posted by Zopperoni They'll do the interview, but I think the ceremony will be modest.

Got it right. pretty tame.

FIA really got slapped with seven teams not running and after all they could have solved the problem easily - they should just have allowed all teams to drive on new tyres.

	20-06-2005 01:07									#165
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It seems that Michelin teams + Minardi and Jordan wanted to race if they made a chican before the banked curve, even without taking any points. But Ferrari (and FIA) didnt agree.

	20-06-2005 01:07									#166
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The ceremony was indeed very modest. There was actually some argument wether they should go on the podium. Barichello could be heard saying that they shouldn´t go up there as it could turn ugly and they would be booed off... Monteiro was happy of course. And he should be, no shadow should fall on his performance.

Zopperoni, Ferrari didn´t cause the problem. But they sure as hell didn´t lift a finger to ease the situation. Not agreeing to place a chicane in turns 12 and 13 served only their own purposes. Therefore their win is tainted and undeserving IMO.

	20-06-2005 01:35									#167
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It would be humanistic to concede to the chicane being installed, but from a business point of view, it's rather silly.

Ferrari handled the situation "as is". They can't count on sympathy from the other teams, but they usually don't get it anyway
There is no sensible argument for Ferrari to accept the chicane under these circumstances.

Serves everybody else right for picking a bunch of sh*tty French tyres

	20-06-2005 01:49									#168
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Sh*tty french tyres that have been ridiculing Ferrari and Bridgestone along all season...

Last edited by Thorgal on 20-06-2005 at 02:04

	20-06-2005 01:51									#169
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QFT

	20-06-2005 05:59									#170
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This was absolutely terrible, a sad day for the sport... I can't understand how FIA and the teams could not be mature enough to solve the problem in benefit of the show...

So giving new tyres to everyone would break a rule, big deal... It's not like it is something that's going to happen every race. Plus, it's their rule, it is not some kind of constitutional law...

What happened today was a travesty of a race, and the audience at Indianapolis has every right to be pissed off. I would be really anger if I had paid money to see that farce.

It's time for those who run the show to really rethink what they're doing to this beautiful sport...

	20-06-2005 06:06									#171
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This is why I've basically quit watching for two years now. F1 is being ruined.

	20-06-2005 16:53									#172
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Went to a bar to watch the race, but ended up playing checkers with some Finnish dude instead, after a lap or two. Would have been very much disappointed if I had bought the tickets to a race like this.

	20-06-2005 22:41									#173
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And to complete the day Barrichelo let Michael to win again.

	21-06-2005 14:27									#174
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FIA et al denies all responsibility for the recent debacle... Although I can understand their position it seems stubborn and unflexible considering the great lenghts to which the Michelin teams were willing to go.

quote: Michelin teams summoned by FIA The FIA has ordered the seven Michelin teams to appear at a hearing of its World Motor Sport Council on Wednesday June 29 following their controversial withdrawal from the US Grand Prix. The dummy grid. Formula One World Championship, Rd 9, United States Grand Prix, Race, Indianapolis, USA, 19 June 2005 BAR pack away their Michelin tyres and head home. Formula One World Championship, Rd 9, United States Grand Prix, Race, Indianapolis, USA, 19 June 2005 Pierre Dupasquier (FRA) Michelin Competitions Director faces the media. Formula One World Championship, Rd 9, United States Grand Prix, Race, Indianapolis, USA, 19 June 2005 The Michelin runners retire to the pit lane after the formation lap. Formula One World Championship, Rd 9, United States Grand Prix, Race, Indianapolis, USA, 19 June 2005 An extraordinary meeting between team owners, Michelin, drivers, the FIA and circuit organisers to decide how to hold the GP. Formula One World Championship, Rd 9, United States Grand Prix, Race Day, Indianapolis, USA, 19 June 2005 The summons follows a statement issued by Formula One racing’s governing body earlier on Monday, in which it outlines its position on Michelin's decision to pull out of the race. The statement reads: "Formula One is a sporting contest. It must operate to clear rules. These cannot be negotiated each time a competitor brings the wrong equipment to a race. "At Indianapolis we were told by Michelin that their tyres would be unsafe unless their cars were slowed in the main corner. We understood and among other suggestions offered to help them by monitoring speeds and penalising any excess. However, the Michelin teams refused to agree unless the Bridgestone runners were slowed by the same amount. They suggested a chicane. "The Michelin teams seemed unable to understand that this would have been grossly unfair as well as contrary to the rules. The Bridgestone teams had suitable tyres. They did not need to slow down. The Michelin teams’ lack of speed through turn 13 would have been a direct result of inferior equipment, as often happens in Formula One. It must also be remembered that the FIA wrote to all of the teams and both tyre manufacturers on June 1, 2005, to emphasise that "tyres should be built to be reliable under all circumstances". "A chicane would have forced all cars, including those with tyres optimised for high-speed, to run on a circuit whose characteristics had changed fundamentally – from ultra-high speed (because of turn 13) to very slow and twisting. It would also have involved changing the circuit without following any of the modern safety procedures, possibly with implications for the cars and their brakes. It is not difficult to imagine the reaction of an American court had there been an accident (whatever its cause) with the FIA having to admit it had failed to follow its own rules and safety procedures. "The reason for this debacle is clear. Each team is allowed to bring two types of tyre: one an on-the-limit potential race winner, the other a back-up which, although slower, is absolutely reliable. Apparently, none of the Michelin teams brought a back-up to Indianapolis. They subsequently announced they were flying in new tyres from France but then claimed that these too were unsafe. "What about the American fans? What about Formula One fans world-wide? Rather than boycott the race the Michelin teams should have agreed to run at reduced speed in turn 13. The rules would have been kept, they would have earned Championship points and the fans would have had a race. As it is, by refusing to run unless the FIA broke the rules and handicapped the Bridgestone runners, they have damaged themselves and the sport. "It should also be made clear that Formula One Management and Indianapolis Motor Speedway, as commercial entities, can have no role in the enforcement of the rules." The seven teams due to appear before the FIA next week are BAR, McLaren, Red Bull, Renault, Sauber, Toyota and Williams.

http://www.formula1.com/race/news/3209/740.html

	03-07-2005 14:43									#175
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Today´s race looks really promising for Alonso. Clinching pole yesterday despite starting 10th in the qualifying session Bad luck (again) though for Kimi who will be punished for an engine change friday, thus starting 13th instead of 3rd

Good performances also from Trulli and Sato, qualifying 2nd and 5th respectively Equally bad performances from the Williams due to all sorts of trouble. 13th and 14th is not good to put it mildly

	04-07-2005 01:15									#176
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Truly awe-inspiring race by Alonso today. And what a race by Kimi From 13th to 2nd! Congrats also to Button and BAR for their first points for the season, a few more races and they might overtake Minardi and Jordan Williams did as bad a race as they did qualify, who would´ve guessed that they had Heidfeld on a 6 stop strategy...

Next race Silverstone in a week!

	04-07-2005 02:37									#177
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Alonso did well, but he also had a lot of help from Trulli - no, I don't blame Trulli to do it on purpose, he raced for himself, but he maybe are a good qualifier, but when the opponents are climbing up into his exhaust, he can't drive fast - unfortunately, he is also good at defensive driving and slows things down. After Trulli's first pitstop the other drivers start to catch up on Alonso but had lost to much time.

Kimi - that man is just awesome

	04-07-2005 02:48									#178
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True, Trulli did slow down those behind him quite a bit. But I don´t think Schumi would´ve beaten Alonso (or Kimi for that matter). Both have cars that are 100% functional and they drive well beyond those 100% Schumi admitted that much himself in the press conference afterwards...

	04-07-2005 18:54									#179
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quote: After Trulli's first pitstop the other drivers start to catch up on Alonso but had lost to much time.

Nope, what drivers? Michael lost 24 secs to Alonso during the 1st 20 laps. Then, after Trulli´s first stop, he lost another 57 secs during the remaining 51 laps. He was nearly lapped before Alonso last stop.
About Kimi he made a good race, but he never started to catch up on Alonso. I cant remember any moment in the race where Kimi was faster tha Alonso. After his first stop he was about 20 seconds behind Alonso and he finished the race 20 seconds behind him.

The incredible part about Kimi is that he qualified really 3rd, six positions ahead of Montoya, carrying much more fuel. Without Kimi engine change there would have been an interesting Alonso vs Kimi fight with MS some miles behind.

Resuming, the borest race of the season. But at least all cars started the race....

	04-07-2005 21:41									#180
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yes, a boring race.

Alonso had no trouble at all. He just drove as fast as he could and this was enough to keep him well ahead of the others. Schumi couldn't battle him at all, Trulli or no Trulli.

Impressive race (and strategy) by Raikkonen. Too bad he had to start from 13th position on the grid. This pretty much ruined his chances to victory. But he was really good.

But it was a really booooring race...

Hope Silverstone is better.