20-07-2005 08:18									#121
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I think that he want to discuss the details (because the devil's in them....).

I'm in the chatroom now, but he's likely very asleep

E_T

	20-07-2005 09:20									#122
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Do I misunderstand this?

Plato posted a typical BoH message promising doom for Babylon, blah, blah, blah

Then Krill responded

quote: I think I speak for everybody here, apart from those belonging to BOH and the Babs when I say: Who gives a Sh!t?

He doesn't care? Tacit approval? Am I reading too much into this?

	20-07-2005 09:23									#123
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I think you might be reading too much in to it. Then again, I might be reading too little.

I laughed. I figured he was just making fun of BOH's habit of announcing everything publicly.

	20-07-2005 09:27									#124
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that probably makes more sense...

BoH has got my head spinning

	20-07-2005 10:45									#125
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I suggest we ask AM to share any knowledge of BOH troop movements they may have.

	20-07-2005 17:08									#126
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I read Krill's public statement the same as Kloreep. I think everyone is coming to recognize BOH as a rogue (and ranting) state. It's like someone bit them and now they have rabies.

	20-07-2005 20:38									#127
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Krill is online at MSN now and wants to talk to officials of Babylon; HeŽll be online for another five hours from now at least.

	20-07-2005 21:14									#128
	Put an end to popups!

I will not be able to be on-line (and at home) to chat until about 7pm tonight (edt), which is midnight or so his time.

Maybe I will see if we can do it via PM.

	20-07-2005 21:20									#129
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I could try but I am at work.

What is Krill's MSN account?

	20-07-2005 21:45									#130
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I have a chat going - I think.

	20-07-2005 22:53									#131
	Remove this text

Part 1 of my chat with Krill:

quote: Skrobism says: hello Krill says: Hi mate Krill says: \Beta has PMed me already Skrobism says: This is official diplo chat. OK? Krill says: Sure, np Skrobism says: IF you are comfortable with PM that is fine by us. Krill says: I prefer chat... Skrobism says: Do you have any issues with the plan drawn up by you and E_T? Krill says: if that is OK with you? Krill says: Yes, we do Skrobism says: name them. Skrobism says: *I'm at work over lunch, might have to go. Krill says: Basically, it come down to this: Either you move your town to 663 of UE, and we keep ours at 21 of UE Krill says: oryou keep yours at 66 and move ours to 22 Krill says: you might need a map... Skrobism says: Can't open Civ here. Skrobism says: Is that the only issue? Krill says: don't you have screenshots? Krill says: yeah, that is our only issue with the border treaty Skrobism says: Might be able to find a screenie. Hard to do at work. Krill says: I'd take one and post it, butthis computer does not have C3C installed either. Skrobism says: I can take that issue back to Babylon, get agreement and write up a treaty. Skrobism says: or you can write up the treaty with your proposed change, send it, and we can mark it up or agree to it tonight. Krill says: Well, I can right it up later if you need me two, but aswe are pressed for time it would be best if we went onto other topics. Krill says: For example, Fued and the MPP Skrobism says: yes? Krill says: What was the deal for fued again? Skrobism says: looking it up - hold on... Krill says: something like we fund your research, can't recall... Skrobism says: IIRC - yes. trying to read E_T's post. Krill says: trying? Skrobism says: I am Skrobism says: I am close - hold on. Skrobism says: yes. something about funding chiv. Skrobism says: 30 GPT? Krill says: 30 gold sent each turn manually Skrobism says: I'm still reading. was that the deal? Krill says: sent to babylon in exchange for fued. Skrobism says: how many turns? Krill says: That was not discussed, it seems. Skrobism says: no it wasn't - darn details. Krill says: Well, 30 gold per turn for 20 turns = 600 gold. Engineering (you can't reseach chiv yet, unless you get monotheism) costs 900 beakers Skrobism says: true. I wish I knew what E_T was getting at specifically. Krill says: However, we would be getting two techs, one of them in advance, so that is perfectly acceptable by us. Skrobism says: and you'd have exclusive first rights to it.

Laptop crashed hard - restart...

	20-07-2005 22:54									#132
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...restart - part 2

quote: Krill says: When you research Engineering (or whatever tech you research, but as Monotheism is already known, there is little point to research it) Skrobism says: hello I'm back - sysytem locked up had to restart - not like my machine at all. Krill says: np Skrobism says: damn it's still running hard. Krill says: school machine? Skrobism says: work. Krill says: ah. Skrobism says: ok. if that happens again. just write up what you think the treaty is, and we can look at it and modify tonight. babylon was very enthusiastic about working with you. We were very happy thatthere were no border disputes that could not be worked out. Krill says: ok Krill says: eating tea atm Skrobism says: re: techs. I think the trick is to get monotheism. Krill says: so i'm typing with one hand... Krill says: yeah, we need mono. Skrobism says: I'm sorry I need the save to figure out who to getthat from. Krill says: dr have it Krill says: other than that I have no idea, and no way of being certain Skrobism says: and we have yet to hear from them. Skrobism says: ok so far - Skrobism says: you have a suggestion for the border. Skrobism says: we have some more details on the tech trades, but need more. Skrobism says: anything else? Krill says: MPP? Skrobism says: We would love to be mutually protected. Esp. since BOH claims that babylons is plotting against them. Poor guys. Krill says: They have pissed off so many teams... Krill says: idiots... Skrobism says: I told Paddy as much. Skrobism says: they make no sense. Skrobism says: They publically declared war after giving us time to think. Skrobism says: at the same time they declared war they came to us for peace. ????? Skrobism says: ranted and then blamed us again. oh well. it's a game. Skrobism says: hello? Krill says: sorry, tidying up my plate Skrobism says: ok Krill says: I always thought that they were the most unstable team in the game. Krill says: This just proves it, really. Skrobism says: true. Like I said in the forum. The world can do with us as they see fit, but BOH has no friends. Skrobism says: MPP? Skrobism says: I think you can count on it. Krill says: Well, this We are restationing our armed forces so that If BOH come knocking they are going to have to go through walls, alot of spears (Pikes if you send us Fued), and counterattacking Horses/WC Krill says: With enough units to hold down any barbs that coe our way. Skrobism says: I'm sure you will have Feud soon. Skrobism says: Have you been in talks with Lost Boys/1889? Krill says: No, we have not... Krill says: he is raely around to chat, because of the time difference Skrobism says: email? Krill says: We've done it a bit, but it takes too long, as this game moves to fast, and the circumstances change so frequently. Skrobism says: true. Skrobism says: are you looking at an MPP with them as well? Krill says: Well, 1889 has no reason to want an MPP against any civ but DR, if he has one with you. Skrobism says: I think he, like all others fears BOH. Skrobism says: you ARE friendly with LB/1889 correct? Skrobism says: in game. Krill says: yes, we are. Skrobism says: good. we are too. Skrobism says: DR? Like I said we have recieved nothing official back from them. Krill says: we've chatte, but nothing has really happened. Skrobism says: OK. my lunch is ending soon. what time is it there? 6:40? Krill says: yes Krill says: Have a good after noon then, I'll right up the proposals. Skrobism says: can you write up the AM/Bab treaty? Skrobism says: oh good. Skrobism says: we can look at it and get it marked up or sign off on and get that back to you today. Skrobism says: I think we are real close. no deal breakers here. Krill says: Yes, I'll probably send it within the next two hours Skrobism says: I'll watch my email skrobism@yahoo.com and post it then. Skrobism says: no send it to theidiots@yahoo.com Krill says: duly noted Krill says: OK, altered then Skrobism says: good. I'll watch both. Skrobism says: thank you this has been a good talk. have a great night. Krill says: Thanks. Krill says: It has been a good chat.

	20-07-2005 22:57									#133
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Summary:
Krill has a proposed border change from the original plan.

He will write up details for the Border, Tech trades, and MPP.
Sounds like they want Fuedalism ASAP.

We will edit and/or ratify then send back to AM.

	21-07-2005 00:39									#134
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more from AM...

quote: Skrobism says: hello again. What do you make of 1889's declaration of war? Krill says: Empty gesture Krill says: BOh are not going to attack him until they have Keshiks, it just is not feasable Krill says: They will probably just Kill Euphorica, then if they are still unhappy with you attack you. Skrobism says: that sounded like Paddy's plan. Krill says: That is probably the safest thing for BOH to do, apart from start building liraries nad markets Skrobism says: NOT THE MARKET that would be an act of war. Skrobism says: Krill says: Skrobism says: I'd hate to leave 1889 hanging out there like that. Skrobism says: I was supposed to ask you something else before. May I? Krill says: Why? He knows that he is safe simply due to the distance between civs Krill says: sure Skrobism says: I don't know. BOH was pretty close before, on DR's border. Skrobism says: question. Skrobism says: do you have any intel on BOH troop mov'ts? Krill says: from when until when? Skrobism says: current Krill says: we stopped tracking them a short while ago. Krill says: At a guess. and extrapolting from how fast the slow movers travel, I would say within 5 tiles of Metalica Skrobism says: so they moved everything in the direction of Eu? Krill says: thats a guess Krill says: no proof Skrobism says: of course. Krill says: I'd say you are safe for at least 20 turns. Skrobism says: that was all that we were going to ask BOH for to start with when they were talking some sense. Skrobism says: so, you don't plan to kick the BOH hornet nest as 1889 has done? Krill says: I'll do it next turn. Krill says: but in reality, it would be best to play our relationship down Krill says: an ace up the sleeve, as it were Skrobism says: Sounds fair. Maybe we will ride our Graneries to war along side the Lost Boy. Skrobism says: of course Skrobism says: Thank you. Babylon awaits the Morporkean Babylonian Treaty. I would consider it all but signed off on. There is so much that we agree on. It is good that we are neighbors. Krill says: I've sent it to the idiots and skro addies Krill says: and PMed it to Micha and Beta Krill says: should I PM it to you as well? Skrobism says: ok. I will post it. I should reply to you tonight via email. Skrobism says: back to work. Skrobism says: no need for the PM.

	21-07-2005 00:42									#135
	Inflate your Upload Space

The treaties:

*removed duplicate post*

	21-07-2005 00:43									#136
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His PM to three of our members:

quote: Treaty Section One: Technology Exchange Team AM sends 30 gold per turn until 600 gold has been received by Team Babylon, manually. Babylon sends Fuedalism to Team AM as soon as this treaty is agreed. Whatever technology that Team Babylon decides to research shall be sent, accepted, to Team AM as soon as it is researched. Neither the researched technology, nor Fuedalism, shall be traded by Team AM to another Team, and Team babylon shall have sole resale rights to these two technology. EDIT BY MICHA: There was a mistake in there which Krill wanted me to correct before posting. It said Neither the researched technology, nor Fuedalism, shall not be traded by Team AM to another Team,.... END OF EDIT This Treaty Section is signed by Team Ankh-Morpork --- Treaty Section Two: Ankh-Morpork/Babylon Border Either: Team AM builds one city on the tile 21 of the Town of Unreal Estate, and Team Babylon builds a town on the tile 663 of Unreal Estate. Team AM will not build any cultural improvements in the town 21 of Unreal Estate until the cultural borders of Lake Ishtar have expanded Team Babylon will not build any cultural improvement in the town 663 of Unreal estate until the cultural borders of Unreal Estate have expanded. A cultural improvement is any improvement that generates culture, for example a temple, library or Forbidden palace. - Or: Team AM builds one city on the tile 22 of the Town of Unreal Estate, and Team Babylon builds a town on the tile 66 of Unreal Estate. Team AM will not build any cultural improvements in the town 22 of Unreal Estate until the cultural borders of Lake Ishtar have expanded Team Babylon will not build any cultural improvement in the town 66 of Unreal estate until the cultural borders of Unreal Estate have expanded. A cultural improvement is any improvement that generates culture, for example a temple, library or Forbidden palace. This Treaty Section IS NOT signed by Team Ankh-Morpork ---

Hopefully we can complete this treaty before the end of the day. I'll be in MSN for the next 3 hours, give or take half an hour.

quote: The MPP between Team AM and Team babylon shall be treated as a separate treaty,. Mutual Protection Package In the event that ither Team Babylon or team Ankh-Morpork are attacked by any team, the unattacked team shall use all viable means to defend the attacked party. (This part could do with some work, so I would be thankful if you could complete this part of the treaty) This Treaty IS NOT signed by Team Ankh-Morpork

	21-07-2005 00:45									#137
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I told him he'd see an answer by tomorrow morning.

Ideas?

	21-07-2005 01:07									#138
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From a chat:

quote: Micha: you wouldnŽt share internal knowledge about us with the horde, would you? Krill: No, of course not.

	21-07-2005 01:29									#139
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krill is chatty today. wanted info on how we work.

quote: Krill says: Kro, just wondering, but how is your government set up? Krill says: Skro Skrobism says: you mean our players? Krill says: players, diplomats, MOI etc Skrobism says: Beta is the team lead. Skrobism says: Kloreep has been playing the turns with much input from all. Skrobism says: E_T does ALOT of domestic stuff. Skrobism says: We had designated diplomats for each civ, but when all hell broke loose that went as well. Skrobism says: It is very democratic. Skrobism says: all get a say and there is usually a consensus. Skrobism says: and your team? Krill says: As there are only two of us, we have a joint decision in everything Skrobism says: are you the one to contact. Krill says: You can contact either of us Skrobism says: sounds good. anything else? Krill says: We've been in this sort of government sice about run 5 Krill says: turn Skrobism says: two players gov't? Krill says: democratic. Skrobism says: 2 player demo? Krill says: yep Skrobism says: where did your team go? Krill says: no idea. We only had 4 at the start. One got piled under the workload Krill says: and the other was not around much, then jsut left as we had everything covered. Skrobism says: that explains some things. Skrobism says: who left? Krill says: Conqueror got the team together, jshelr faded away Skrobism says: looking at your list. Master Zen is just lurking? Krill says: yeah, but we don't post much, so he does not have much to go on. Skrobism says: I will have to update our Diplo list and give you an update. But first we will get this treaty completed. Skrobism says: Anything else? Krill says: not that I can think of.

	21-07-2005 02:43									#140
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Personally, I prefer the first option in the border & research treaty. AM's city doesn't interfere with our lake tiles, and our city is not so close to AM's nor so close to BOH's city and their future roads.

The 600 gold sounds good given that AM is giving us NTA on both techs. That's a little over a 1/3rd of the costs of both techs if we research Engineering; and a little more if we research the already-known Monotheism. If we get someone else like LB to pay another third, we'll have done our equal 1/3rd share and broken even, and if we get in to trades with DR or Euphorica we might even make a profit from the whole thing.

As for the MPP text, those are tricky things...

	21-07-2005 05:27									#141
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NIce, so much catch up to do.

	21-07-2005 06:14									#142
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Kick a$$ job today skro. Thank you. I continue to get a good feel about AM. Now what is this thing about 1889 and war??? Going to check it out.

	21-07-2005 06:58									#143
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Thank you. I just kept communication open.

I don't feel comfortable drafting this. Is someone willing to write it up?

I think that we should send the tech with this turn. nothingis signed, but we have a general understandingand intent to sign. Sending would build trust.

	21-07-2005 09:17									#144
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Hmm, choices

Incensity is now considered to be more vulnerable, if settled at site #1, but then, we would be closer to AM for more mutual support.

But settling at site #2 would mean Am at 2-2 of UE. But, would be a bit more defensible.

I think that we need to bite the bullet on this and go with the site #2. Also, we need to clarify, if it;s o.k. for Culture, before theirs at UE (not likey at this point in time) with this site?

E_T

	21-07-2005 09:53									#145
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Site #2 means a town at 2-1 of UE.

I think that's the option we should go for. Better AM town placement, and our town isn't jutting out toward BOH so much.

	21-07-2005 12:23									#146
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Find out if DR sent them Mono. If not, tell them that we think that BoH now also has it, from DR.

E_T

	21-07-2005 19:58									#147
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Did anybody write this up? If not I'll do it over lunch and send it back signed. I'll read your suggestions above and incorporate it into the treaty.

	21-07-2005 20:01									#148
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No, I don't think so.

All we really need to do is cut out the second part of the city/border treaty so that only the option we want is there, then put signed by both sections.

	21-07-2005 20:29									#149
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The MPP could use some work. Maybe it should specify what is an attack that would trigger this. Like say an attack by [named civs] within either of our nation's territories. Mobilization of [named civs]'s unit moving towards one of our territories with obvious intent. Naval blockade of our territories by [named civs].

To be reviewed and renewed every [# of turns]||[year]||[age].

ideas?

Just an idea.

	21-07-2005 20:35									#150
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Yeah, the Feudalism MPP definitely needs some work. But since they're treating it as a seperate treaty, which it is, I figure we can go ahead with the border & tech while still working on the MPP.

Last edited by Kloreep on 21-07-2005 at 21:20