19-03-2005 11:53									#211
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Good lord, have you read anything about the case? Michael Schiavo, her legal guardian, has said all along that she had expressed to him her desire that, should anything happen to put her in such a state, she should be allowed to die.

Nope.

quote: Except you haven't done that, you've just made more stupid arguments of your own. It's easy to knock down strawmen, after all.

Yeah your arguments blew over as quick as Fez's.

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	19-03-2005 11:53									#212
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov You haven't refuted my arguments, you've set up strawmen to argue against. Try again.

I set up strawmen of your creation.

It's all that activist judge's fault.

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	19-03-2005 11:54									#213
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Good lord, have you read anything about the case? Michael Schiavo, her legal guardian, has said all along that she had expressed to him her desire that, should anything happen to put her in such a state, she should be allowed to die. Except you haven't done that, you've just made more stupid arguments of your own. It's easy to knock down strawmen, after all.

excatly my point he claims she expressed to him Nobody else has heard otherwise on what he claims she wanted This is what he says Does that make it true? nobody knows but him and her.

	19-03-2005 11:57									#214
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski Who did she express that she didnt want to live to? the husband who has a gf and new kids? please give me a break those are his words not hers. I see nobody has answered why he just doesnt let her be and let her folks deal with her

He's the legal guardian, it's his word that matters. It's all we have to go on. I don't see how his having a "gf and new kids" renders what he says suddenly less credible.

As for the second question, why not believe Schiavo himself when he has said the reason he hasn't just "let her be" is because he loves her and wants to do what she wished of him?

Maybe the reason that I feel so comfortable with the morality of my position in this case is that the opposition has to resort to smearing Michael Schiavo as a liar, uncaring husband and greedy opportunist in order to make it's case.

	19-03-2005 11:57									#215
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Whether she "feels pain" is immaterial.

This whole bit is just like the Elian Gonzales case, a situation in whcih the law is pretty clear, but emotions and political ideology get in the way.

Well, this is a country of laws- many of them are bad, but until the are changed, they are the law- The husband hasd the power to make the legal choice- its terribly sad that the parents have not let go of their daughter, but the spouse has the say.

I think it is a farce to have the US congress getting involved into purely personal matters of this kind where the law is relatively clear on the matter.

	19-03-2005 11:59									#216
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I'm just waiting for someone to use the "activist judge" argument.

	19-03-2005 11:59									#217
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Nope.

So...your ignorance about the issue is my problem...how?

quote: quote: Except you haven't done that, you've just made more stupid arguments of your own. It's easy to knock down strawmen, after all. Yeah your arguments blew over as quick as Fez's.

I suggest you look up "strawman arguments" so you can see why what you just said didn't make any damn sense as a response to what I said.

	19-03-2005 12:03									#218
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Are you going to sit there and say hes pulling the plug because he loves her. Even when he can just walk away and let her family deal with her. I say hes got a vested stake in this and it isnt love.

	19-03-2005 12:03									#219
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov So...your ignorance about the issue is my problem...how?

Because you look like an ass arguing with someone that hasn't read anything on the issue?



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	19-03-2005 12:06									#220
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski Are you going to sit there and say hes pulling the plug because he loves her. Even when he can just walk away and let her family deal with her. I say hes got a vested stake in this and it isnt love.

And this makes no difference, cause he is the one with the legal guardianship and the right to do so. This is all this whole case boils down to in the end, and that it has been so expensive and so long is a tragedy in and of itself.

Now, if only there was a right to die in Florida, the death would not have to be prolonged.

	19-03-2005 12:11									#221
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regardless if it makes a difference in the eyes of the law. I simply asked why he couldnt just walk away and let her folks decide.I have never argued that the woman shouldnt be allowed to die I just dont think it should be by starvation

	19-03-2005 12:13									#222
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski Are you going to sit there and say hes pulling the plug because he loves her. Even when he can just walk away and let her family deal with her. I say hes got a vested stake in this and it isnt love.

So what's the stake? What kind of slander are you going to engage in against Schiavo?

Why is it impossible to believe that he loves her and is fulfilling a commitment he made to her? Maybe he believes what her family wants is the wrong thing to do?

	19-03-2005 12:14									#223
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Because you look like an ass arguing with someone that hasn't read anything on the issue?

I think you're a bit confused over what makes one an ass...

	19-03-2005 12:14									#224
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski regardless if it makes a difference in the eyes of the law. I simply asked why he couldnt just walk away and let her folks decide.I have never argued that the woman shouldnt be allowed to die I just dont think it should be by starvation

Well, the thing is that is the ONLY legal way to do so in Florida. I think all the "pro-death" people in this thread have agreed that it would be so much better to simply allow her doctors to euthenize her.

As for why he does not simply walk away, well, given that financial reasons seem currently highly unlikely, maybe he trully feels this is a terrible state for the woman to be in, one no person should be in, and that it would be best for her to die. I don't know, nor really do I care.

I am sick of the law being twistes by emotions and politics in this case.

	19-03-2005 12:17									#225
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov I think you're a bit confused over what makes one an ass...

Not at all, when you argue with an ass(me), you look like an ass.

I understand perfectly what makes one an ass.

	19-03-2005 12:17									#226
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov So what's the stake? What kind of slander are you going to engage in against Schiavo? Why is it impossible to believe that he loves her and is fulfilling a commitment he made to her? Maybe he believes what her family wants is the wrong thing to do?

I havent slandered him yet have I, why would I start now. I simply think the man has other intrest in this besides her wishes. I mentioned money one time here and not again.Truth be known I think its a life insuance policy but that is my opinion and not a fact.

	19-03-2005 12:19									#227
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov So what's the stake? What kind of slander are you going to engage in against Schiavo?

And I don't know what makes someone an ass?

Accusations like that are a good start.

If you are going to accuse her of something, at least use the proper term.

It's libel, not slander

Look it up.

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	19-03-2005 12:27									#228
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski I havent slandered him yet have I, why would I start now. I simply think the man has other intrest in this besides her wishes.

Um, that's a contradiction in two sentences. There's no evidence of such "other" interests, and implying that he's out for some sort of gain is indeed slanderous [note to Tuberski: if you read the dictionary, you'll note that "slander" is a perfectly acceptable word choice in this context, since I'm not making a legal argument].

quote: I mentioned money one time here and not again.Truth be known I think its a life insuance policy but that is my opinion and not a fact.

Schiavo turned down offers of millions of dollars to hand over the rights of his wife. If he was out for money, why not take those and walk away scot free?

The life insurance thing is ludicrous. That's not how such policies worked. Indeed, by authorizing the removal of the feeding tube, he'd be nullifying any life insurance policy there might be in the first place!

	19-03-2005 12:29									#229
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Not at all, when you argue with an ass(me), you look like an ass.

Actually, people argue with asses all the time and come out looking just fine. I'll reference you to www.talkorigins.org for a prime example.

	19-03-2005 12:30									#230
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dude, let her die. shes a waste of space and anyone that can find something redeeming about her living is nuts.

	19-03-2005 12:30									#231
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quote: anyone that can find something redeeming about her living is nuts.

QFT

	19-03-2005 12:31									#232
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Boris, what the hell does the character of the husband have to do with any of this?

You make a mistake by trying to defend him, as if that were of any value- by doing that you validate the notion that smearing him (which neither tubes nor the missus have done) is some sort of arguement.

This is NOt a complicated case, anymore than Elian Gonzales's case was complicated. One party has the legal right, and that has been recognized by the courts.

What is specialy and disturbing about this case is the willingness of groups and politicians to use it for thier own political and ideological ends.

	19-03-2005 12:33									#233
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 dude, let her die. shes a waste of space and anyone that can find something redeeming about her living is nuts.

Let's kill all the retarded people out there too, then we can do it to lazy people , fat people.

The list goes on.

HEIL!

ACK!

	19-03-2005 12:34									#234
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Boris, what the hell does the character of the husband have to do with any of this?

I don't think it does have anything to do with the legal ramifications of the case.

But there isn't any evidence his motives are sinister (and quite a bit indicating they aren't), so as a seperate issue, it chafes me to see people slandering him for the purposes of trying to futher their argument. Slandering him is just an example of the low, desperate tactics to which people will stoop to try and make any sort of case.

I don't think Schiavo is a saint by any means--he could be a total ass, for all I know. But in the absense of irrefutable evidence in favor of that assertion, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

	19-03-2005 12:35									#235
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Let's kill all the retarded people out there too, then we can do it to lazy people , fat people. The list goes on. HEIL! ACK!

oh the slippery slope argument...

	19-03-2005 12:37									#236
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quote: Originally posted by Sava oh the slippery slope argument...

Isn't it?

This is the worst reason of all to let her die.

Do you know anything of Eugenics?

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	19-03-2005 12:39									#237
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I have been asking that all night Boris. why doesnt he just walk away scott free?

	19-03-2005 12:40									#238
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Isn't it? Do you know anything of Eugenics? ACK!

actually, your argument might be more absurd than the gay marriage leads to beastiality argument... I find it offensive.

	19-03-2005 12:41									#239
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski I have been asking that all night Boris. why doesnt he just walk away scott free?

I repeat: because maybe he actually cares about her and wants to see what he believes is best for her take place? Why is this not possible to believe?

GePap also stated it:

quote: As for why he does not simply walk away, well, given that financial reasons seem currently highly unlikely, maybe he trully feels this is a terrible state for the woman to be in, one no person should be in, and that it would be best for her to die.

	19-03-2005 12:41									#240
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov [note to Tuberski: if you read the dictionary, you'll note that "slander" is a perfectly acceptable word choice in this context, since I'm not making a legal argument].

Dictionary.com says:

quote: A false and malicious statement or report about someone

My wife's statements weren't malicious. So you are wrong legally and in your context.

ACK!