20-03-2005 10:05									#1
	Massive student strike in Quebec Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Felt like talking about it. The government cut 103 M$ in its financial help program. Now more than half of the province's students (roughly 250 000) are striking against the measure. The education minister's offer in response to the strike is to gradually "cut back on the cuts", up to a maximum of 42 M$ in five years (effectively, 60 M$ below what the students want).

Some students associations have moderated their position, and said they would settle for 80 M$... but they want it right away, not in five years.

So what's your stance on student strikes? I voted for myself - just like an overwhelming 88% of my fellow philosophy students.

	20-03-2005 10:08									#2
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I support them as long as worker unions don't get involved.

	20-03-2005 10:12									#3
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You can't always get what you want. I live in California and know we have to live within our means. I would like to know more about the fiscal situation (is fiscal austerity needed?) in Quebec. If fiscal austerity is required like here in california, yes I support the government in its cuts.

	20-03-2005 10:17									#4
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The government is working on a really tight budget this year (growth was slower than expected), but the former finance minister said the money could be found, and had planned to do so.

Unfortunately, he was getting too popular, so he got thrown out by the prime minister and was replaced by a more docile peon who won't spare the money.

	20-03-2005 10:32									#5
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Since it's crunch time for my PhD thesis, I haven't followed it closely. But I didn't have to teach last tuesday, so that was a quite welcomed break! I will teach next tuesday, however. Don't know if there will be anybody, though. I'm somewhat sympathetic to their cause: I owe tons of cash. But I heard that some student representatives are also aiming for a free education. In other words, they don't want to pay for anything, just like the public universities in France. I've been to France, and thrust me, you don't want to go there.

	20-03-2005 10:33									#6
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Well in California we are learning we have to pay for what we get. I think you should live with the austerity.

	20-03-2005 10:36									#7
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quote: Originally posted by nostromo Since it's crunch time for my PhD thesis, I haven't followed it closely. But I didn't have to teach last tuesday, so that was a quite welcomed break! I will teach next tuesday, however. Don't know if there will be anybody, though. I'm somewhat sympathetic to their cause: I owe tons of cash. But I heard that some student representatives are also aiming for a free education. In other words, they don't want to pay for anything, just like the public universities in France. I've been to France, and thrust me, you don't want to go there.

I'm going to Bordeaux next year. The wine and the women should compensate for the crappy university, right?

	20-03-2005 10:43									#8
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quote: I'm going to Bordeaux next year. The wine and the women should compensate for the crappy university, right?

I'm sure you'll have a ball at Bordeaux. The wine is cheap and the women are fun. Lets just hope that it's better than Aix, academically speaking.

	20-03-2005 11:22									#9
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The State refuses to pay for students to study, and in response, the students stop studying.

Sounds like a win-win from the States' perspective. How is the strike their problem?

Have y'all ever thought that to protest a funding cut it might make more sense to increase consumption of academic resources? Make those people work!

	20-03-2005 11:27									#10
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It'd be amusing if professors decided to enforce attendence policies and fail people who missed to much because they decided to slack off during this "student strike."

	20-03-2005 11:31									#11
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Well, what are the students going to do while they're striking? Live with their parents? Work? If they chose option two, they stop being wards of the State and become productive members of society, many of them for the first time.

Again, a student strike is a win-win for everybody except the students.

	20-03-2005 12:30									#12
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They take their message to the streets!

	20-03-2005 12:33									#13
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The students have already gotten 42M$ out of their effort, so I'd say it has some effect.

Remember, John, that the government has to defend the job they're doing to the electorate.

	20-03-2005 12:51									#14
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If I were part of the electorate, I would be angry that the government gave in to pressure tactics.

	20-03-2005 12:55									#15
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They should get ZERO and actually pay for services. Like what I do. Actually paying for it.

	20-03-2005 12:57									#16
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That would only be true if you believed the government was justified in its initial action.

If you believe that the students are protesting unjust or undesirable cuts then the strike is likely to crystalise your opposition to the government's actions.

	20-03-2005 12:59									#17
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse That would only be true if you believed the government was justified in its initial action. If you believe that the students are protesting unjust or undesirable cuts then the strike is likely to crystalise your opposition to the government's actions.

Well I believe people should pay, not get things on a silver platter. That's why I think the fees in California for universities should be hiked. Yes it will be more of a pain for me and other students.. but if we don't we can't pay for our services, these services disappear. That simple.

The students should accept the fact they can't always get what they want.

PAY FOR WHAT YOU GET. You can't steal.

	20-03-2005 13:00									#18
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quote: That would only be true if you believed the government was justified in its initial action.

It just makes the government look weak. I might be angry at the government on principle. Now everyone is going to think the government is a pushover for a little extra dough. These students probably now think they have the government over a barrel.

Don't give an inch, or they'll take a mile.

	20-03-2005 13:01									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo They should get ZERO and actually pay for services. Like what I do. Actually paying for it.

a) You pay for ****, sweetheart. Mommy and daddy pay for you

b) California has a public university system (actually, 2 of them), which tells me that residents of california who go to school there most definitely do not pay full price for what they're getting

	20-03-2005 13:03									#20
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quote: Originally posted by DanS It just makes the government look weak. I might be angry at the government on principle. Now everyone is going to think the government is a pushover for a little extra dough. These students probably now think they have the government over a barrel.

Not really. Student strikes are notoriously hard to hold together because students are understandably averse to losing an entire semester. This is the first large-scale student strike in 35 years in Quebec (according to the radio today).

	20-03-2005 13:04									#21
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse a) You pay for ****, sweetheart. Mommy and daddy pay for you

No. I have a job paying off the loan I got to pay for the services. I also have some grants from non-government organizations. So no, think again.

quote: b) California has a public university system (actually, 2 of them), which tells me that residents of california who go to school there most definitely do not pay full price for what they're getting

Actually, both the UC and CSU systems are pretty damn good.

	20-03-2005 13:10									#22
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Not really. Student strikes are notoriously hard to hold together because students are understandably averse to losing an entire semester. This is the first large-scale student strike in 35 years in Quebec (according to the radio today).

Yeah its biggest since '68.
Hes right that student strikes are usually easy for the gov. to handle, as many ppl pointed out, the students are only hurting themselves directly and they are afraid of losing session.
In general they have to convince the general population that they are fighting for what is right, and in this case they are winning...

	20-03-2005 23:28									#23
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc It'd be amusing if professors decided to enforce attendence policies and fail people who missed to much because they decided to slack off during this "student strike."

DinoDoc, students have no problem vandalizing cars and offices. The professors know this. A strike is a two-way game.

	20-03-2005 23:33									#24
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Then it'd be great if those professors pressed charges against the hooligans that vandalized cars and offices .

	20-03-2005 23:38									#25
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I agree that a student strike is not like a "true" strike, but there are some benefits.

1) University principals don't like the trouble associated with it, and side with the students against the government.

2) It gets the message on the street, and in cases where the population mostly agrees, this is effective to reduce the popularity of a government.

3) Cancelling a semester is a pain in the ass for everyone, not only the students.

4) We're having so much fun, drinking, smoking, shouting!

	20-03-2005 23:40									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Then it'd be great if those professors pressed charges against the hooligans that vandalized cars and offices .

As if the police has the means to investigate on every broken window. Strike violence rarely gets punished.

	20-03-2005 23:44									#27
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Ah yes, a culture of lawlessness, only promoted by students. And you wonder why people hate stiking hooligans.

In the US, the police will investigate the vandalism. At the very least, the university police will and those responsible will get booted off campus.

I wonder how that isn't intimidation of professors? Nice to know that your ilk are on the same moral plane as the mafia.

	20-03-2005 23:50									#28
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT The State refuses to pay for students to study, and in response, the students stop studying. Sounds like a win-win from the States' perspective.

When the state sees it's citizens as an enemy or oponent, yes. But if the state sees the citizens as being a part of the state, then it's lose-lose.

	21-03-2005 00:03									#29
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT The State refuses to pay for students to study, and in response, the students stop studying. Sounds like a win-win from the States' perspective. How is the strike their problem? Have y'all ever thought that to protest a funding cut it might make more sense to increase consumption of academic resources? Make those people work!

That was my thought also. It's like a retiree going on strike because of SS cuts

	21-03-2005 00:04									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris DinoDoc, students have no problem vandalizing cars and offices. The professors know this. A strike is a two-way game.

So, in response to the professors enforcing a perfectly legal policy, the students would commit crimes?