25-03-2005 06:17									#121
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quote: Imran, check out the news on TV. I got this report about the testimony at the Federal hearing now being conducted from MSNBC.

I asked for a link, Ned. And from an unbiased site as well, please. I'll be generous... I'll accept a FOXNews one .

quote: The money that Michael has spent from the million has not been spent in an effort to rehabillitate Terry, but is instead being used on lawyers to terminate her life

So who is paying to keep Terry alive? Michael is not a rich man. If it went all into legal fees, the $1+ million to keep Terry on the tube had to come from somewhere. It didn't come from the parents.

	25-03-2005 06:24									#122
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Oh jesus, every time someone new jumps into this, we have to dispel the same bullshit over and over.

Ned, look up the previous thread and read it. The right-wing propaganda you've spewed has all been refuted there.

Any notion that Terri Schiavo says ANYTHING is ridiculous. Her cerebral cortex is scar tissue. Any sounds she make are reflexive, not words. This has been testified to over and over again by numerous, independent court-appointed experts.

	25-03-2005 07:02									#123
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Oh jesus, every time someone new jumps into this, we have to dispel the same bullshit over and over. Ned, look up the previous thread and read it. The right-wing propaganda you've spewed has all been refuted there. Any notion that Terri Schiavo says ANYTHING is ridiculous. Her cerebral cortex is scar tissue. Any sounds she make are reflexive, not words. This has been testified to over and over again by numerous, independent court-appointed experts.

Right wing bullshit? I said I heard this from the nurses themselves. I saw them on TV.

My only question is whether they are lying. If they are, why?

As to expert testimony, there is apparently a conflict given the more recent testimony by a "foremost" expert in the field.

Imran, I have no link to the Abrams report transcript for today. However, that is where I heard the description of the Mayo Clinic doctor that was to be submitted in today's hearing that is even now being conducted.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7283607/

	25-03-2005 07:04									#124
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this discussion wouldn't be complete without news from the Nedaverse

	25-03-2005 07:04									#125
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BTW, when presented with the new expert testimony, Judge Greer today denied the State's motion to reopen the case as he said that it made no difference to him whether Terry was a vegitable or conscious.

Ugh.

I think it makes a big difference ethically.

	25-03-2005 07:05									#126
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quote: Originally posted by Ned BTW, when presented with the new expert testimony, Judge Greer today denied the State's motion to reopen the case as he said that it made no difference to him whether Terry was a vegitable or conscious. Ugh. I think it makes a big difference ethically.

any proof?

so is this the new strategy for the RWer's? to slander Judge Greer?

I already read that his fundie baptist church expelled him.

	25-03-2005 07:05									#127
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nm

	25-03-2005 07:07									#128
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yeah that's what I thought

	25-03-2005 07:07									#129
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Right wing bullshit? I said I heard this from the nurses themselves. I saw them on TV.

I was referring specifically to your claims about the million dollars, which are patently not true. As for the nurses, where was their testimony in the past 15 years?

quote: My only question is whether they are lying. If they are, why?

They aren't experts in neurology, they're nurses. Schiavo makes noises, but they are reflexive. People can interpret them to mean anything.

And they could also have sympathies for the Schindlers or be right-to-lifers, so that's why they could be lying. But the bottom line is that no one with a cerebral cortex like that is going to be saying anything.

quote: As to expert testimony, there is apparently a conflict given the more recent testimony by a "foremost" expert in the field.

An "expert" who is not the foremost, and who has never actually examined Schiavo, only looked at her. Every doctor who has actually examined her, as we've repeated time and again, have concurred with it being PVS and that it is irreversible. These are independent, court-appointed experts we're talking about here, not people dredged up by one of the sides involved to parrot their particular agenda.

	25-03-2005 07:07									#130
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quote: Originally posted by Sava any proof? so is this the new strategy for the RWer's? to slander Judge Greer? I already read that his fundie baptist church expelled him.

If I were governor Bush, I would also file a motion to remove Judge Greer. He apparently is not listening.

	25-03-2005 07:09									#131
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quote: Originally posted by Ned If I were governor Bush, I would also file a motion to remove Judge Greer. He apparently is not listening.

and that motion would be subsequently laughed at and thrown out... further embarassing the Republican skull duggery

	25-03-2005 07:11									#132
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quote: Originally posted by Ned BTW, when presented with the new expert testimony, Judge Greer today denied the State's motion to reopen the case as he said that it made no difference to him whether Terry was a vegitable or conscious.

Yeah, I'll need a source on that one, too. Sounds like BS to me.

Reminds of the claim made that the Schindlers had said that even if Terri had a living will, they'd be fighting this. I've found no support for that claim, either.

	25-03-2005 07:11									#133
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Sava, thanks for your vote of "confidence" in me.

As to the truth of the matters regarding Michael's money, I would also conduct an evidenciary hearing on that matter as well. We could then get to the truth, couldn't we?

	25-03-2005 07:12									#134
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Yeah, I'll need a source on that one, too. Sounds like BS to me. Reminds of the claim made that the Schindlers had said that even if Terri had a living will, they'd be fighting this. I've found no support for that claim, either.

I can't provide a link now, as it was on the Abrams report this afternoon. A transcript in not available at this time.

	25-03-2005 07:15									#135
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quote: As to the truth of the matters regarding Michael's money, I would also conduct an evidenciary hearing on that matter as well. We could then get to the truth, couldn't we?

You don't think the parents would have fought the motive in court? Either they have the worst lawyer in the world, or they did and the court rejected their arguments.

quote: Yeah, I'll need a source on that one, too. Sounds like BS to me.

Ditto.

	25-03-2005 07:15									#136
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quote: Originally posted by Sava and that motion would be subsequently laughed at and thrown out... further embarassing the Republican skull duggery

Sava, it clearly is your opinion that this is a partisan issue. Since the Dems seem to be on board with rescuing Terry given their unanimous support in the US Senate and their even split in the house, on what basis do you make this claim?

	25-03-2005 07:15									#137
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Sava, thanks for your vote of "confidence" in me.

well when your points go against all the facts in the case, am I unreasonable to request proof?

quote: As to the truth of the matters regarding Michael's money, I would also conduct an evidenciary hearing on that matter as well. We could then get to the truth, couldn't we?

on what grounds? this isn't North Korea, you can't just conduct hearings on people for no reason... he hasn't done anything illegal... in fact, he is the only one who seems to be following the law and the findings of the courts.

	25-03-2005 07:15									#138
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Sava, it clearly is your opinion that this is a partisan issue. Since the Dems seem to be on board with rescuing Terry given their unanimous support in the US Senate and their even split in the house, on what basis do you make this claim?

Probably the numerous polls which side with the courts over the Republicans in Congress and in Florida.

	25-03-2005 07:16									#139
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quote: Originally posted by Ned As to the truth of the matters regarding Michael's money, I would also conduct an evidenciary hearing on that matter as well. We could then get to the truth, couldn't we?

But it's irrelevant, isn't it? Whether or not he has any money has no bearing on the legal aspect of the case, namely his power of attorney for his wife and ability to make the decision for her.

Why would Michael Schiavo turn down $1 million (or more) to hand her over to someone else, if he was out for money? The argument makes no sense and is just a means of smearing Schiavo by the right-wing.

	25-03-2005 07:17									#140
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Sava, it clearly is your opinion that this is a partisan issue. Since the Dems seem to be on board with rescuing Terry given their unanimous support in the US Senate and their even split in the house, on what basis do you make this claim?

you should read the other thread on this.... I addressed this already.

The Senate Dems are spineless pieces of **** that don't want to be seen as the party of "death".

This Republican Party is making a concerted effort to make this an issue. It has been proven with the memo to Republican Senators that ABCNews and MSNBC got a hold of.

	25-03-2005 07:17									#141
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Since the Dems seem to be on board with rescuing Terry given their unanimous support in the US Senate

Distortion. The Senate passed it by a voice vote, so claiming it was unanimous is bullshit. Nice try, though.

	25-03-2005 07:19									#142
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As to Judge Greer, his latest ruling is now on appeal to the Florida Supreme Court. Let's see if Democrat-dominate Florida Supreme Court supports his ruling.

	25-03-2005 07:19									#143
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In addition, the Republicans waited until the oppertune time to call a voice vote. Only THREE Senators were in the Senate when the vote was quickly called and voted on.

	25-03-2005 07:20									#144
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quote: Originally posted by Sava The Senate Dems are spineless pieces of **** that don't want to be seen as the party of "death".

Disagree on this issue. They did the smart thing. They have to pick their battles, and this is not one that's necessary, as they know what the ultimate outcome will be. Had they fought it as a party, it really would give the GOP political ammunition with the base. Now that advantage has been diffused.

The Dems let their party members vote their conscience, the GOP whipped their people into line. The result is that, overwhelmingly, the public sees this as a GOP crusade that is wasting taxpayer resources on a matter that isn't their business.

	25-03-2005 07:21									#145
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui In addition, the Republicans waited until the oppertune time to call a voice vote. Only THREE Senators were in the Senate when the vote was quickly called and voted on.

Hadn't heard that. How is that possible? Don't you have to have quorum to pass any bill in either chamber?

	25-03-2005 07:22									#146
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quote: Originally posted by Sava you should read the other thread on this.... I addressed this already. The Senate Dems are spineless pieces of **** that don't want to be seen as the party of "death". This Republican Party is making a concerted effort to make this an issue. It has been proven with the memo to Republican Senators that ABCNews and MSNBC got a hold of.

No doubt that Republicans are pressing this issue. But the Dems are not united in opposition. Many, even if not a majority of Dems, are supportive.

What is Hillary's take? She is the most likely next Dem presidential nominee.

What is Dean's take. He, after all, is a doctor as well and may have been in this same position many time during his active practice days.

	25-03-2005 07:23									#147
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Boris:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto...chiavo_congress

quote: The Senate approved the measure on Sunday by voice vote in a nearly empty chamber.

I think a voice vote doesn't need a quorum.

	25-03-2005 07:25									#148
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The point about the US Senate, is that unanimous consent legislation cannot be passed without every Senator, every one, consenting.

	25-03-2005 07:26									#149
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quote: Originally posted by Ned No doubt that Republicans are pressing this issue. But the Dems are not united in opposition. Many, even if not a majority of Dems, are supportive.

Boris's interpretation of things makes sense.

quote: What is Hillary's take? She is the most likely next Dem presidential nominee. What is Dean's take. He, after all, is a doctor as well and may have been in this same position many time during his active practice days.

I really don't care what their opinions are. In fact, I think it's inappropriate for them (or any politician) to make a big about this publicly. It's a private medical decision, and it's really not anyone's place to interfere. It's a travesty that the Republicans pissed on the Constitution just in an effort to please the right-to-life nutbags.

	25-03-2005 07:28									#150
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On the politics issue, clearly there are a lot of Dem and Repub activists on both sides who are trying to make this a partisan issue. So far, the National Democrat Party seems to be either supportive of rescuing Terry or at least neutral. This could be a reaction to Hillary's move to the right as she positions herself for the next election.