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Wycoff
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quote:
Originally posted by Kidicious
Sorry, but what a bunch of crap. If you are going to be a racist stop trying to dress it up. Limiting immigration is anti-immigration, which is racist. |
You're basing your argument on unwarranted assumptions. I don't pretend to speak for all those in favor of immigration enforcement, but I believe that immigration laws should apply to all groups equally. I'm against illegal immigration of all types, regardless of whether the illegal is German, Salvadorean, Angolan, etc. I don't see how that is racist.
I have a few problems with the current illegal immigration situation. First of all, the porous southern border creates a huge national security risk. Besides admitting plenty of violent criminals, the border situation is an invitation to any terrorist able to make it to Central America. This presents the most obvious logical flaw in Bush's defense strategy, and one of the primary reasons I opposed the Iraq war.
Second, the constant illegal immigration across the southern border is creating ecological devastation, both on public and on private lands.
Third, the current situation allows easy entry for criminal
gangs and drug cartels. The current MS-13 explosion is just one of the examples.
Fourth, illegal immigration creates a lopsided immigration situation. The US needs immigrants to function. However, the large influx of illegal immigrants from Central America makes it much harder for prospective immigrants from other parts of the world to gain entry, as the demand for their services is being satisfied by illegals. A better controlled immigration system would allow a more equitable distribution of immigration, ensuring that more people from other depressed parts of the world (like Africa, Asia, former Soviet countries, etc.) can have the opportunity to become US citizens and ensuring that the US gets a diverse array of people from different cultures rather than the current situation, where the majority of immigrants are a single ethnicity. Such a one ethnicity problem can easily lead to defining that ethnicity as some sort of worker sub-class, which amounts to a defacto caste system.
Fifth, the system allows businessmen to exploit undocumented workers, and allows them to avoid paying their rightful share of taxes.
Sixth, illegals are currently entitled to some health care benefits that American citizens are not entitled to receive. Southwestern hospitals are being swamped with non-paying illegal immigrants.
You can call me a racist if you'd like. I learned long ago that the label "racist" is used by social liberals as a way to demonize those who disagree with them, just as laissez-faire capitalists use the terms "communist/socialist" to demonize anyone supporting any limitation on business. The labels are used so frequently that they are rendered meaningless. Thus, I take no offense to your name-calling. I don't deny that some who seek stricter immigration enforcement do so for primarily racist reasons. However, I vehemently disagree with the idea that anyone who demands stricter border enforcement is inherently racist.
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Wycoff
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara They're aiding the Border patrol in the same way that vigilantes aid police, i.e., not at all. |
Perhaps, or maybe they're helping border patrol in the same way that a neighborhood watch group helps the police. I completely support this group if they are going to call the proper authorities and report immigration infractions. Furthermore, I have no problem with this group defending themselves if fired upon by gang members anymore than I would a neighborhood watch volunteer defending himself if fired upon by a local criminal.
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Wycoff
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
which country did the 9-11 hijackers come through again? thank you come again |
Weren't most (if not all) the 9/11 hijackers here on one type of expired Visa or another? If the INS would do it's job (it's either incompetent, unwilling to do it's job, or not allowed to do it's job, I'm not sure which) then there would have been no 9/11. The kicker is that the INS issued greencards to some of the hijackers AFTER 9/11, when the identities of the hijackers were known.
Last edited by Wycoff on 30-03-2005 at 00:36
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Wycoff
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Great comments, guys. I hate the knee-jerk reaction from some quarters that labels all people who want border enforcement as "racists." Illegal immigration is a serious problem that requires serious attention.
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DRoseDARs
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"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Whoha
Bullshit. |
Right back at you.
quote:
First off we suffer a 10 Billion dollar tax loss to these people. Then we lose out on Remittances, money they send home. We don't run a trade surplus with them so all of that money just leaves our economy. |
Oh please, are you saying that with the money they send back they're building Hollywood-style mansions? Part of the video showed us what was built by one of the seasonal workers it followed: A hovel. His village was still dirt poor and he'd been building that "house" for 5 years piece by piece. The US isn't the "Get Rich Quick" scheme you think it is Whoha. These people are still well-below the US poverty line and much of what they make they need to support themselves here, like food, rent, and medical (farming is back-breaking work). Whatever is left over is still going to be very little. Frankly, Bush's little coronation ceremony earlier this year probably equalled a large chunk of what illegals have sent out of this country each year.
quote:
Then we lose out on the fact that Businesses have so much labor that they don't have to innovate and move up to requiring manufacturing and tech. Then our legal immigrants lose out because the people that compete for their jobs are: you guessed it, those illegals. |
That is such horseshit. Why is it you think that these farmers use and abuse the cheap labor of illegals, hmm? BECAUSE THEY'RE CHEAP LABOR AND THEY'RE ILLEGAL!! They can get away with using and abusing them because politically businesses have more sway over government action against illegals than people pissing and moaning about, "they're taking the crap jobs that we don't work in the first place that we don't want anyway." More over, since they're inclined to use and ABUSE these people, why the f*ck would they be interested in replacing them? These farms are not about to replace cheap, undocumented Human labor with expensive, high-tech robots.
quote:
I find it troubling that you would think that we need a ghettoized slave labor class in this country for any reason. |
I find it moronic of you that you are putting words in my mouth with that dimwitted little strawman inspite of all the posts you've read of mine. I most certainly DO NOT think we need a "ghettoized slave labor class." I recognize the fact that we already do and that it needs to be stopped. Part of what we are doing in my Anthro class in this section is we watched a video following some people trying to get the strawberry pickers of Watson Valley to unionize in order to better fight for humane work condidtions. We saw the comparatively abysmal living conditions some have (though some do live somewhat comfortably). We saw the pitance they're paid (under minimum wage) without any benefits like health coverage. We saw that they'e constantly exposed to pesticides because the farm owners make them work in fields adjacent to ones just sprayed. Then there are the illegals that aren't working in the fields. Their jobs are still crap and the people still aren't about to be replaced with robo-cooks and AI-guided vacuum cleaners. Legal immigrants are here and are going to have more freedom in working towards and choosing jobs that they don't risk be deported if they're caught. An illegal isn't going to take a job as a doctor or lawyer or police officer or teacher or any other higher-profile career because they will draw attention to their own illegal status. That's why they take the low-level crap jobs: The risk of notice is far lower. Yes, there's probably competition for these crap jobs, but for illegals there aren't any other jobs for them to work.
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29-03-2005 22:48
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