06-04-2005 04:59									#151
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*****slapping unions

	06-04-2005 07:24									#152
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander I am Cherokee. And my homeland was taken over by Americans too! First it was the fvcking Indians, and then the Mexicans and now the U.S. claims sovereignty. A brother just can't catch a break!

My G.G. Grandmother was Cherokee.

Second part, what are you talking about?

	06-04-2005 07:27									#153
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Oh, shut up. People are welcome here and all we ask is that they go through the legal process. It's not very hard nor is it very expensive but it is entirely unacceptable to let criminal law breaker just do what ever they want dispite the law. I realize that Republican bastards have done everything they can to prevent the enforcement of the law because individual business owners have benifeted from paying below mininium wage to illegal aliens but we still need to enforce our laws or they mean nothing. We need to enforce them upon illegal aliens and we need to enforce them upon unethical businesses who use illegal laborers in order to goose their profit margins.

Both sides have.

	06-04-2005 07:30									#154
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin CNN had a special on that tonight and it was proven to b e a myth. The truth is most illegals work under the table in a cash economy which doesn't pay taxes. Illegals end up consuming far more government services then they ever pay in taxes. The worst offenders are criminal illegal aliens who get imprisioned, Currently there are close to one million illegal aliens in American jails where nearly the entire cost is paid by state or local governments. Several states are suing the federal government because they claim, rightly in my mind, that the federal government is deliberately not securing the border in order to appease business interests. The country of Los Angles (not counting the various cities in the county just the county government) pays $90 million per year to imprision illegal aliens who commit violent crimes.

Lou Dobb and CNN

	06-04-2005 07:31									#155
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quote: Originally posted by Frankychan See? Not all immigrant workers are truly "exploited" as some may seem. Those that are 'legit' pay their a** in taxes, but at the same time, there are a heck of a lot more that get around the taxes deal. My whole thing is that I don't agree with the Minuteman Militia thing. There's gotta be a waaaaaay better thing than this. I honestly don't have an idea what, but there's something. Also, I don't think that illegal citizens should be afforded the same rights as regular citizens....because, what good is being a citizen if an illegal alien possesses the same rights as an illegal alien? There should be some kind of buffer system in place.

They have now today reported more than 200, without hurting or killing anyone.

	06-04-2005 07:45									#156
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I have to agree. But Asian students don't have trillions of dollars in American businesses paying politicians to change the law in their favor. Politicians are bribed (er.. I mean they get "contributions" ) by businesses to keep the flow of cheap illegal aliens flowing.

Now don't you confuse contributions with bribes. A bribes is I give something and in return you do something for me. A contribution is I give you something and in return you do something for me. Sh!t, THEY ARE THE SAME. THOSE LOUSY BA$TARD ARE TAKING BRIBES AND CALLING THEM CONTRIBUTION.

Please explain why would someone spend 38 million to get a job that pays 165,000 per year.
Wait free trips around the world, free medical, his/her salary for life, Medicine lock in for life, someone kissing your a$$ for life.

	06-04-2005 08:18									#157
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The ability to change laws so that your special interest can get criminal amounts of loopholes? The fact that after your term is up you'll not only recieve your salary for the rest of your life but you'll also get set up by one of thoe nice companies you whored yourself to when they bribed you? Opps, I meant one of those companies which gave you contributions.

	06-04-2005 13:51									#158
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui If he wasn't, we'd have unions which would be way too powerful (think MLBPA or Teachers' Unions, but in most workplaces).

I agree. Unions are built on a 19th century premise (as communism is) which happens to be false in the U.S. of the 21st century. Take a look at the industries where the unions have maintained their hold. Almost all of them are getting their ass handed to them by foreign competition. Those that don't compete internationally directly (Teacher's Unions for instance) are often criminally ineffective at their base function for the amount they are paid.

Unions would work better if they were restructured as entities which provide labor to businesses on a competitive basis with one another, rather than as monopoly entities which are oriented toward oppositional relations with the industries whose workers they represent.

	06-04-2005 21:17									#159
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander Unions would work better if they were restructured as entities which provide labor to businesses on a competitive basis with one another, rather than as monopoly entities which are oriented toward oppositional relations with the industries whose workers they represent.

Unions competing with each other? ****, why even bother?

	06-04-2005 21:45									#160
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I have to agree. But Asian students don't have trillions of dollars in American businesses paying politicians to change the law in their favor. Politicians are bribed (er.. I mean they get "contributions" ) by businesses to keep the flow of cheap illegal aliens flowing.

America's loss, Asian students coming over to study English and whatnot are pumping ****-loads of money into Canada's economy (and to a lesser extent Australia's), going through American emigration generally isn't worth the bother.

being able to spell correctly while being drunk off my ass

	06-04-2005 22:00									#161
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I trust Lou Dobbs on immigration as much as I trust the Bush administration on WMD issues.

I am in favor of a guest worker program in order to basically remove the cause of illegal immigration-which is people seeking a better life, which is the basic reason anyone who is NOT native American happens to be in this western hemisphere.

	06-04-2005 22:37									#162
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quote: Originally posted by GePap I trust Lou Dobbs on immigration as much as I trust the Bush administration on WMD issues. I am in favor of a guest worker program in order to basically remove the cause of illegal immigration-which is people seeking a better life, which is the basic reason anyone who is NOT native American happens to be in this western hemisphere.

GePap, is this the first time we have agreed on anything?

	19-04-2005 14:11									#163
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Oerdin

Very insightful posts.

I now agree with the minutemen. If they can clean this mess up we might be able to increase legal immigration and get people who will pay taxes.

	19-04-2005 22:39									#164
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Unions competing with each other? ****, why even bother?

so that instead of the Business ****ing the workers over, or the Union ****ing its members over, the common man has the best shot at winning.

	19-04-2005 22:49									#165
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On one of the talk shows last night they had on a soldier and his attorney. The soldier had made a citizen's arrest of 8 illegals who had surrounded him at a rest stop while he was letting his dog take a leak. He called 911 to report the illegals. The soldier was arrested.

Now, someone please explain this to me.

	19-04-2005 23:14									#166
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You have to "witness" the crime to make a citizen's arrest. He didn't see them come over the border, so he had no right to do that, regardless of how obvious it is that they had infact committed a crime.

	19-04-2005 23:20									#167
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W, because its only a misdemeanor, I suspect.

But, I guess his best defense is that he was near the border, heard them speak Spanish and act in a supicious manner.

Still, though, the result in this case is just a bit bizzare.

	19-04-2005 23:23									#168
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He had no right to report suspicious activity? If you call a cop you might get arrested?

*Note to self, move to the Philippines.

	19-04-2005 23:50									#169
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no he detained them.

	19-04-2005 23:50									#170
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer He had no right to report suspicious activity? If you call a cop you might get arrested? *Note to self, move to the Philippines.

Even if it was a crime to arrest the illegals, I would have not filed charges if I were the DA. They are making an example of this soldier.

	19-04-2005 23:59									#171
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"no he detained them."

He's a soldier, they are foreign nationals. He was stopping an invasion.

Actually it might not be a bad defense. Soldiers are supposed to do stuff like that. I know, I was one a million years ago. When unarmed East Germans came over the border, if they survived the farewell (hail of bullets, minefields, etc) of their commie countrymen, we were supposed to detain them for the Germans.

	20-04-2005 00:01									#172
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"Even if it was a crime to arrest the illegals, I would have not filed charges if I were the DA. They are making an example of this soldier."

Hell of a time to make an example of a soldier.

Anyone know his name? I want to put 'Free Whatshisname' in my sig.

	20-04-2005 00:33									#173
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Soldier Detains Illegal Aliens; Gets Arrested



by

James Buchanan

An Associated Press article (Ref. 1) reports "An Army reservist was arrested on charges of holding seven Mexicans at gunpoint at a rest stop in southern Arizona, where civilian efforts to watch for illegal immigrants have raised fears of vigilante violence. Sgt. Patrick Haab, 24, was apparently acting alone and not involved with the Minuteman Project, which has organized volunteers for a monthlong effort to watch for immigrants and drug smugglers along the border. Officials said Haab used his vehicle to stop the seven men from driving away from an interstate rest stop Sunday... Sheriff Joe Arpaio said. 'He did not have the right to do what he did. How did he know they were illegal aliens?' "

Sergeant Patrick Haab had been serving in Iraq. He came home, saw illegal aliens sneaking into his home state and did something about it. Naturally he was punished. The local sheriff claims that the soldier didn't have "probable cause" to detain those Mexicans. Well, they all turned out to be undocumented aliens. Maybe the sheriff should take lessons from that soldier in spotting illegals.

Government officials keep telling us to do nothing and let "the authorities" handle the border. The border patrol has been deliberately underfunded so that it can't secure the border, and Congress refuses to build a wall or fence along the entire border to make crossing more difficult. The criticism of the Minuteman volunteers is completely shameless, considering that these elected officials refuse to uphold immigration law, which is one of the duties they assumed when they took an oath of office.

The two-pary politicial hacks have allowed millions of Mexicans to sneak across thanks to their deliberate neglect. The Democrats see the Mexicans as future voters and the Republicans are whores for big business, which wants an endless supply of low wage labor. Every citizen however has the right to make a citizen's arrest. If Sergeant Haab is put on trial for detaining illegals, he should ask for a jury trial since ordinary Americans are unlikely to him to jail.

If Patrick Haab didn't detain the illegals, the border patrol would have done nothing and never caught them. Our federal government only makes a token effort at watching the border. After all, Dubya is an open borders kind of guy. He wouldn't want to offend his buddy Vincente Fox.

1).Army Reservist Charged in Border Detention
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto...der_detention_1

	20-04-2005 00:35									#174
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This thread is full of some of the most loathsome aspects of modern America.

	20-04-2005 00:42									#175
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It looks like the stories are painting a one-sided, propaganda-filled, version of the events. Haab simply stopped to let his dog take a leak at a rest stop near the border and was then surrounded by the illegals who came out of a dark field (it was night, IIRC) speaking spanish. He detained them and called 911.

It is interesting that the vigilantes are calling for Haab's head.

	20-04-2005 00:51									#176
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Just for the record, I'm all for letting more people into our country, just do it legally. On the other hand, if I was a poor Mexican and had a hungry family to feed, I'd feed em. If that meant crossing into the US illegally and picking fruit for a dollar an hour, so be it. The problem is the system. We need to document these workers and get them a fair wage and paying taxes for the services they use. Also, like with the nurses we need to let American's get first dibs on those jobs. If there is a shortage of nurses the INS lets nurses in. Well, if Americans don't want to pick fruit, and I'm sure most don't, then let Mexicans in...at minimum wage with protection from abuses.

	20-04-2005 01:00									#177
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But you're all for letting some jackass with a gun detain anybody he sees speaking Spanish?

**** that. String him up for false imprisonment, menacing and assault with a deadly weapon.

	20-04-2005 01:03									#178
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse But you're all for letting some jackass with a gun detain anybody he sees speaking Spanish? **** that. String him up for false imprisonment, menacing and assault with a deadly weapon.

he didn't actually assault anyone with a deadly weapons. false imprisonment is the only thing he should be charged with.

	20-04-2005 01:04									#179
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quote: # Law. 1. An unlawful threat or attempt to do bodily injury to another. 2. The act or an instance of unlawfully threatening or attempting to injure another.

Assault doesn't mean that he fired the gun. Assault means he brandished it.

	20-04-2005 01:06									#180
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quote: Legal Dictionary men·ace1 (`me-nəs) n. 1. A show of an intention to inflict esp. physical harm (accomplished against a person's will by means of force,…menace, or fear of immediate and unlawful bodily injury - California Penal Code) 2. One who represents a threat