31-03-2005 03:31									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Asher When it comes out, I anticipate it will own PC games for at least two years.

like the first one did?

	31-03-2005 03:32									#32
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PC vs console debates are fruitless.

1. Because it depends on the genre. Sport, "action" games, Japanese style RPGS (?) are owned by consoles
Strategy with all it subgenres is owned by PCs. As are Adventures (though thats small, as are flight sims) The only real crossover genres are FPS and RPGs. And even for those are really different styles of play, IIUC.

2. Cause the buying decision reflects so many individual factors - how big a TV do you own - how many TVs do you have in your household - how many PC's - is an old PC enough, or do you need to buy new or upgrade for non-gaming reasons - etc.


Nonetheless its true that PC Game sales figures have declined for some years - though there are problems with those figures, esp the absense of MMORPG game revenue, incomplete coverage of online sales, etc.

I would make the following points - a $400 price point for Xbox2 is very interesting from a PC POV. Youre practically up to the price of a new budget PC.

	31-03-2005 03:32									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Out of curiosity, how long did it take for CS to come out for the XBOX? Outstanding mod, being sold separately in so many ways. But my point stands that CS is excellent proof that gamers do care about mods.

CS is an exception, not the rule. And in cases like this, it gets moved to the Xbox.

There are other advantages of the Xbox here: CS on the PC is virtually unplayable today -- the modability has made it a hacking nightmare with so many cheats that it's no fun to play.

The Xbox version of CS is cheat and hack-free...

	31-03-2005 03:33									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident like the first one did?

Yes, actually...

What games in 2003 looked better than, say, Halo 2?

	31-03-2005 03:35									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Yes, actually... What games in 2003 looked better than, say, Halo 2?

Point made.

	31-03-2005 03:36									#36
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so if a game looks good, it's a great game?

	31-03-2005 03:37									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Yes, actually... What games in 2003 looked better than, say, Halo 2?

Ninja Gaiden is on par with Halo 2, if not slightly leading it.

OMFG XBOX PWNZ0R3D ITSELF

	31-03-2005 03:38									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident so if a game looks good, it's a great game?

Apparently, since the "better graphics" offered by PC is the main argument used in PC vs. Console debates.

	31-03-2005 03:38									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident so if a game looks good, it's a great game?

I was mistaken in thinking the comment was about the technical abilities of the console.

Great game design can be applied to both PC and console, I don't see your point.

I've played way more fun Xbox games recently than PC. The "big name" PC games last year all sucked, DOOM3 and HL2 included.

	31-03-2005 03:38									#40
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Solver's right, and the PC will always be better at certain things and certain genres. There will also continue to be a thriving MP RTS and FPS gaming circuit for the new few years, of that I'm sure. Yeah you can play FPS on a console but it isn't as good, and everyone knows that.

	31-03-2005 03:39									#41
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Another downside of consoles is release dates. Say, Doom3 still isn't out for the XBOX. If I owned a console, I wouldn't want to wait an extra 9 months to get the game. If I buy it for PC first, there's surely no point in wasting the money and buying the game again for the console.

	31-03-2005 03:39									#42
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what Xbox game has been released that is at all like Europa Universalis 2?

	31-03-2005 03:39									#43
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Solver's right, and the PC will always be better at certain things and certain genres. There will also continue to be a thriving MP RTS and FPS gaming circuit for the new few years, of that I'm sure. Yeah you can play FPS on a console but it isn't as good, and everyone knows that.

If that was true, Halo 2 wouldn't have outsold HL2 and DOOM3 by like 6:1...

	31-03-2005 03:40									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Another downside of consoles is release dates. Say, Doom3 still isn't out for the XBOX. If I owned a console, I wouldn't want to wait an extra 9 months to get the game. If I buy it for PC first, there's surely no point in wasting the money and buying the game again for the console.

But the vast majority of games these days come out on console first, then PC.

How long did it take for Halo to hit PC, for example?

Or GTA...

Your example just backfired. Most popular games today are console first (it's far less testing, far easier development), then PC later.

	31-03-2005 03:40									#45
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Actually spike, FPS you can play on the console not that bad. It's other games that are way worse on consoles, IMO, namely RPGs such as NWN or TES series, which lose too much from not being on the PC.

	31-03-2005 03:41									#46
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Halo still isn't worth it. Too moden :P.

	31-03-2005 03:41									#47
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark PC vs console debates are fruitless. 1. Because it depends on the genre..

Exactly. Consoles, IMO, are far superior to PC when it comes to FPS such as Halo 2 or DOOM.

Games like Command & Conquer or Civilization likewise will always be the domain of the PC, although I suppose with the keyboard/mouse add-ons available for consoles there is potential for improved RTS games in the console market.

The main edge the PC had over consoles was 1.) the ability to release new patches and 2.) mods, whether they be official or user-created.

Xbox Live and whatever Sony has for the Playstation has granted the consoles both of those abilities, although the closed network of Xbox Live prevents user mods currently, although this will change with Xbox2.

	31-03-2005 03:42									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Asher If that was true, Halo 2 wouldn't have outsold HL2 and DOOM3 by like 6:1...

That's a point about the relative market shares, and you are right on that.

However, you have both an X-Box and a PC.........MP FPS is better on a PC right? I think it is.

And what about MMORPGs?

	31-03-2005 03:43									#49
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike That's a point about the relative market shares, and you are right on that. However, you have both an X-Box and a PC.........MP is better on a PC right? I think it is. And what about MMORPGs?

MP, as a general rule, is far and away better on Xbox. The PC multiplayer experience is dismal, painful, and chaotic. The Xbox multiplayer experience is far, far more fun.

MMORPGs, dunno. Never played one on the console, but I love WoW on the PC.

	31-03-2005 03:43									#50
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big Console games get ported to PC - GTA, Halo. Big PC games get ported to console - most shooters, The Sims. Of course if you like GTA type games its better (all other things equal) to get a console, to avoid the wait. For a Sims fan PCs are better. For Civ, for Paradox games, for Simcity, even for RTS theres no real choice.

	31-03-2005 03:44									#51
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The following are boring:
1. CS
2. Halo

GTA is sorta fun, but only because you can play with the simulation like you would in SimEarth.

	31-03-2005 03:45									#52
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PCs also have freeware, shareware, indie games.

They have the places where NEW developers are going to get their start, without paying the fees to develop for consoles.

	31-03-2005 03:45									#53
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike That's a point about the relative market shares, and you are right on that. However, you have both an X-Box and a PC.........MP is better on a PC right? I think it is. And what about MMORPGs?

Xbox Live has made multiplayer on the Xbox just as good, if not better, than on the PC. The fact that so many games are all brought together on one uniform network allows for several nice features to be built in that regular Internet MP doesn't have.

And I expect to see MMORPGs for the console to be realized with these next-gen releases.

	31-03-2005 03:46									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Asher MP, as a general rule, is far and away better on Xbox. The PC multiplayer experience is dismal, painful, and chaotic. The Xbox multiplayer experience is far, far more fun. MMORPGs, dunno. Never played one on the console, but I love WoW on the PC.

I meant FPS MP, I DanSed it in.

FPS, RTS and MMORPG, virtually all of the PC MP genres do not have a real counterpart on the console. FPS can be played on a console but it is just not as deep or as skillful, and at the top levels (for a competetive circuit) that matters.

And for SP the PC RPGs are better, and there is little or no TBS games.

I think there is room for both markets for a while yet.

	31-03-2005 03:47									#55
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark PCs also have freeware, shareware, indie games.

None of which are spectacular or significant enough to warrant major debate or concern.

	31-03-2005 03:48									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Verto None of which are spectacular or significant enough to warrant major debate or concern.

some people dont think games warrant major debate or concern. I mean its just entertainment - why get all hepped up about this shite?

If it IS important, its cause theres a creative medium here - and if THAT is important, than the indies, etc ARE important.

	31-03-2005 03:48									#57
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Another big reason I like playing Xbox over the PC is:

1.) My TV is eight inches bigger than my monitor.
2.) Halo 2 and my Xbox games come out of a 500W theater system.

	31-03-2005 03:49									#58
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike I meant FPS MP, I DanSed it in. FPS, RTS and MMORPG, virtually all of the PC MP genres do not have a real counterpart on the console. FPS can be played on a console but it is just not as deep or as skillful, and at the top levels (for a competetive circuit) that matters. And for SP the PC RPGs are better, and there is little or no TBS games. I think there is room for both markets for a while yet.

There is room for both, they are both for different games.

I don't get your comments about FPS games on consoles though. Halo 2 MP is far more popular than the current PC FPS multiplayer games combined, and people even pay monthly/yearly to play it online.

I think the people have spoken, and most don't agree that FPS is best on PC.

	31-03-2005 03:50									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Verto Another big reason I like playing Xbox over the PC is: 1.) My TV is eight inches bigger than my monitor. 2.) Halo 2 and my Xbox games come out of a 500W theater system.

I dont have a large screen TV - we're not a TV kinda family. I think thats a reason these comparisons never make sense to me. They always seem to assume at least one large TV per household member.

	31-03-2005 03:51									#60
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark some people dont think games warrant major debate or concern. I mean its just entertainment - why get all hepped up about this shite? If it IS important, its cause theres a creative medium here - and if THAT is important, than the indies, etc ARE important.

MS has what's called an "Incubation" program -- games with little to no budget that MS think has potential, MS throws wads of cash at them to get it developed.

But you are right in that the Xbox thankfully does with less games like Superpower.