07-04-2005 19:17									#151
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you keep wondering though why, if the entire anti-sexual stance of the catholic church is based on the words of paul and not on the words of christ himself, it still is such an important issue ?

	07-04-2005 19:24									#152
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quote: Originally posted by dannubis you keep wondering though why, if the entire anti-sexual stance of the catholic church is based on the words of paul and not on the words of christ himself, it still is such an important issue ?

If they can't get any, they sure are determined you aren't going to either. And if you don't you certainly won't enjoy it.


Although having said that, it didn't stop any number of mediaeval and renaissance Popes, or those lusty mendicant friars, immured nuns and monks, et cetera.


Hardly any wonder that 'nunnery' became English slang for a whorehouse.

	07-04-2005 22:19									#153
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quote: if the entire anti-sexual stance of the catholic church is based on the words of paul and not on the words of christ himself, it still is such an important issue ?

That would be a fine argument. However Paul quotes Christ when he talks about the two no longer being two but one. The two becoming one flesh.

	07-04-2005 22:22									#154
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quote: It would be a rare catholic indeed who would know his Bible more than does a religious protestant convert.

So true.

Funny when debating with my protestant friends.

"You should read up on your bible."

"Uh, dude, wouldn't that have made me a poor protestant?"

	07-04-2005 22:27									#155
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who sits around and actually debates points of the bible?

	07-04-2005 22:33									#156
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some people discuss the bible

I have thought about trying to do it here, but any post gets spammed/trolled by the atheists

Jon Miller

	07-04-2005 22:35									#157
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 who sits around and actually debates points of the bible?

Do you really need to ask that?

	07-04-2005 23:12									#158
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Some of us care very much about it, and like to discuss points on it even during RL.

And surprisingly these are the folks I like hanging out with.

	07-04-2005 23:41									#159
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I'm not sure why that would be surprising in the least.

	07-04-2005 23:44									#160
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse This would be the same Cardinal Schoenborn who backed JPII for Pope and then quickly became disillusioned and a vocal and trenchant of JPII until his dying day, only a month before JPII?

Who died before JP II? Schoenborn is well and alive, hoping to be Innocence XIV/XV. I take you mean Cardinal König (and König died a year ago)

	08-04-2005 00:33									#161
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Discuss, yes. Debate, iffy. Contend, no.

	08-04-2005 04:26									#162
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quote: I'm not sure why that would be surprising in the least.

Therein the gag.

	08-04-2005 07:33									#163
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quote: Originally posted by DanS It would be a rare catholic indeed who would know his Bible more than does a religious protestant convert. AH should have known better.

Excuse me? I nailed it - my reference to Romans was dead on

My experience is protestants can have a very thin knowledge of the bible. They can quote chapter and verse on a few passages but the rest is a mystery.

	08-04-2005 08:56									#164
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi That would be a fine argument. However Paul quotes Christ when he talks about the two no longer being two but one. The two becoming one flesh.

And since Paul never had any contact with Christ, we assume he's quoting accurately...why?

My favorite scene in The Last Temptation of Christ -- one of my favorite movies -- is the scene scene within Christ's "temptation," when he meets Paul (played with a fundie-preacher accent by Harry Dean Stanton). As Paul extols teh wonder of the resurrected Christ, Christ protests that he's still alive, to which Paul says, in effect, "I've got the powerful story; I don't actually need you."

Well, exactly.

	08-04-2005 09:00									#165
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That is a wonderful movie - I have the book.

	08-04-2005 18:20									#166
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Interesting that the secular press in the US has been pretty much all positive with regard to JPII, while noting his critics. For instance, the WaPo had one token negative article among wall-to-wall coverage, which repeats all of AH's criticisms.

I wonder if he's just looked at more favorably in the US than elsewhere because he is seen state-side as one of the main men who brought down communism and ended the balance of terror. He certainly did a great, tangible service to the US.

Last edited by DanS on 08-04-2005 at 18:34

	08-04-2005 19:43									#167
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probably part of it - the other part would be the religious tangent the US is on. No other part of the Western world has so much religiosity.

	08-04-2005 19:50									#168
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It has always been thus.

	08-04-2005 19:56									#169
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you wish....

	08-04-2005 19:58									#170
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I'd hardly call it a religious resurgence.

	08-04-2005 20:01									#171
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you mean the religious right that didn't exist 20 years ago?

	08-04-2005 20:06									#172
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You mean not even in the South?

	08-04-2005 20:22									#173
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse you mean the religious right that didn't exist 20 years ago?

If you're looking for the great secular majority in American history, you'll be disappointed upon not finding it.

	08-04-2005 20:28									#174
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Maybe the religious right emerged because the general religiosity of the nation "deteriorated"?

	08-04-2005 20:31									#175
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The political religious of yesteryear would curl your hair nowadays. I need only mention prohibition and blue laws.

Trust me on this. My little hometown of 1,400 has had 14 different well-attended churches for about a century and has been dry for longer than anybody remembers or knows otherwise. The law against sale of alcohol isn't even on the books it's so old. But nobody questions that it's the law. Even the few catholics don't question it.

Last edited by DanS on 08-04-2005 at 20:41

	08-04-2005 20:44									#176
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Well, complete and universal sobriety would be a pretty good way to prevent drunk driving and other crimes committed while drunk.

	08-04-2005 20:56									#177
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Yes, the practical argument was used, among others, in various places.

	08-04-2005 22:01									#178
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I have never figured out WHY is the US more religious than other western nations.

	08-04-2005 22:07									#179
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Oh, y'see, it's because it's the Promised Land, of course.

	08-04-2005 22:08									#180
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To be fair, there are probably other western countries that are more religious than the US. Maybe Americans are just poseurs. (Public displays of religion are taboo in many European countries.)