18-04-2005 23:32									#31
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Hmm...that average salary is about equal to my tuition for my Liberal Arts education...

...and I'm taking it all out in loans...

	18-04-2005 23:34									#32
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Oh oh oh, I wish I had a job that paid better than everyone else. Then I would be happy and fulfilled, and my life would be joyous and complete.

	18-04-2005 23:34									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat Oh oh oh, I wish I had a job that paid better than everyone else. Then I would be happy and fulfilled, and my life would be joyous and complete.

And you can sound like Asher!

	18-04-2005 23:36									#34
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT And you can sound like Asher!

Happy and content, rather than brashly defensive?

	18-04-2005 23:38									#36
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I just like that line.

Where on the list are medical and law degrees anyways? That always seems like an odd thing to leave out, specially since a lot of people who study things like anthro or art then go to law school.

	18-04-2005 23:38									#37
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You're not a very good capitalist, JohnT.

I hereby revoke your membership.

	18-04-2005 23:39									#38
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quote: Originally posted by GePap I just like that line. Where on the list are medical and law degrees anyways? That always seems like an odd thing to leave out, specially since a lot of people who study things like anthro or art then go to law school.

Leave it to the arts students to ask the stupid questions.

These are undergraduate degrees.

If people study anthro or art then go to law school, they are excluded from this survey because they don't get a fulltime job after they get their undergrad degree.

	18-04-2005 23:40									#39
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT And you can sound like Asher!

No, for that I'd need a young and attractive bumchum, the bestest car in the whole world, the spiffiest mp3 player money can buy, impeccable taste in fashion, music, and gadgetry, a small trolley to carry my ego around in, and for everyone else to be doing worse than me in every respect as well.

But the salary would be a start.

	18-04-2005 23:41									#40
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Mmmm, Dollars.

	18-04-2005 23:41									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat No, for that I'd need a young and attractive bumchum, the bestest car in the whole world, the spiffiest mp3 player money can buy, impeccable taste in fashion, music, and gadgetry, a small trolley to carry my ego around in, and for everyone else to be doing worse than me in every respect as well. But the salary would be a start.

Your first step would be to move out of the UK, to somewhere you can actually make money and improve your droll sense of humour.

	18-04-2005 23:45									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Leave it to the arts students to ask the stupid questions. These are undergraduate degrees. If people study anthro or art then go to law school, they are excluded from this survey because they don't get a fulltime job after they get their undergrad degree.

Leave it to a computer scientist to be illiterate- the chart says degree. I don't see Bachelors anywhere.

Also, not all Universties have engineering degrees- are you saying there are no graduatre Chemical engineering and aurospeace engineering degrees either??

	18-04-2005 23:48									#43
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse To be fair, the average person in sciences is smarter than the average person taking an arts degree, so we'd theoretically have to control for that...

I know (or at least, I hope) that's just a troll, but even so - wtf??? And yes, I am taking an arts degree so please forgive the poor quality of my reply

	18-04-2005 23:49									#44
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Leave it to a computer scientist to be illiterate- the chart says degree. I don't see Bachelors anywhere. Also, not all Universties have engineering degrees- are you saying there are no graduatre Chemical engineering and aurospeace engineering degrees either??

Of course there are, they're just not included in this chart.

I'll help you out here with a little research -- something that I'm inclined to do on my own as a science graduate, rather than rely on someone else to do for me.

http://www.naceweb.org/press/display.asp?year=&prid=212

quote: Salary Survey is a quarterly report of starting salary offers to new college graduates in 70 disciplines at the bachelor's degree level.

This is something that should've been implied.
1) It makes no sense to clump undergrad and grad degrees together when talking about salary
2) It is missing things such as medicine and law, which are graduate degrees...

	18-04-2005 23:49									#45
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Lets go Econ, Lets go!

	19-04-2005 00:00									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Verres I know (or at least, I hope) that's just a troll, but even so - wtf??? And yes, I am taking an arts degree so please forgive the poor quality of my reply

There is a fairly significant, persistent correlation between measurable "intelligence" and field of study. There is also a correlation between "intelligence" and expected earnings. Therefore, to study the effect that undergraduate degree has on expected earnings we should attempt to disaggregate the two. This will provide a more useful measurement of the effect that choice of undergraduate degree has on a given individual.

	19-04-2005 00:01									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Asher This is something that should've been implied. 1) It makes no sense to clump undergrad and grad degrees together when talking about salary 2) It is missing things such as medicine and law, which are graduate degrees...

Actually, it makes sense in so far as the degree ends up being a professional degree- Chemical engineering is about as far as you need to go, and in reality, what you learn in Law school requires no previous undergrad degree. That law schools in the US, as opposed to most of the world expect one to study beforehand something else does not remove the fact that these are similar levels of eduction.

So in fact Law and Medicine shoul be included in such a list for it to be comparable.

	19-04-2005 00:02									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi Lets go Econ, Lets go!

LETS GO BIOLOGY, LETS GO!

	19-04-2005 00:04									#49
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sure....

on another note, I believe that Engineering PHDs start at ~100k..

Jon Miller

	19-04-2005 00:04									#50
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quote: Chemical engineering is about as far as you need to go

Are you out of your mind?

You should probably have mentioned that to the half dozen chem. e. grad students I know before they chose not to get a job straight out of undergrad.

The starting salary of somebody with a PhD in science or engineering is generally about 30% higher than their counterparts with Bachelor's degrees.

	19-04-2005 00:05									#51
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Actually, it makes sense in so far as the degree ends up being a professional degree- Chemical engineering is about as far as you need to go, and in reality, what you learn in Law school requires no previous undergrad degree. That law schools in the US, as opposed to most of the world expect one to study beforehand something else does not remove the fact that these are similar levels of eduction. So in fact Law and Medicine shoul be included in such a list for it to be comparable.

Nonsense, as they require a lot more schooling.

You have very perverse logic. Which is to be expected of an arts grad, of course.

You don't think graduate-level engineers demand a far higher salary? As someone who knows quite a few engineers with Masters or even PhD, I'll tell you they do command a higher salary. Not just the ones who become professors, but the ones who, say, work at IBM's Software Lab in Toronto...

Having a Masters or PhD significantly affects your salary, and position, fairly heavily.

This is a 4-year Bachelor's degree comparison. That is all. It makes no sense to include Law in such a list, and it says a lot about this list's correlation with intelligence that you would try to argue that.

	19-04-2005 00:06									#52
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only 30%?

I know that there were starting jobs avaiable for physics/endgineering PHDs doing industry for 100k in 2000

maybe that has droped a bit, and maybe that wasn't the average, but they existed at that point in time

Jon Miller

	19-04-2005 00:08									#53
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It's not the average.

Electrical engineering, for example, probably has one of the bigger leaps in salary from BEng to PhD.

	19-04-2005 00:09									#54
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse quote: Chemical engineering is about as far as you need to go Are you out of your mind? You should probably have mentioned that to the half dozen chem. e. grad students I know before they chose not to get a job straight out of undergrad. The starting salary of somebody with a PhD in science or engineering is generally about 30% higher than their counterparts with Bachelor's degrees.

Getting a doctorate in any field increases your earnings. A Law degree IS NOT A DOCTORATE, now is it?

	19-04-2005 00:10									#55
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Getting a doctorate in any field increases your earnings. A Law degree IS NOT A DOCTORATE, now is it?

You're arguing semantics. They take the same amount of schooling to obtain.

Why does it matter what they are called?

	19-04-2005 00:10									#56
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A law degree isn't even a masters.

	19-04-2005 00:10									#57
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No, it's a graduate degree. Just like a PhD is.

Duh.

Do you want to continue making a fool of yourself?

	19-04-2005 00:11									#58
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse There is also a correlation between "intelligence" and expected earnings.

I think there are too many exceptions to that rule for it to be taken seriously.

My plumber earns a lot more than I probably ever will - yet he is dense, no two ways about it. I'm not talking about the extent of his knowledge, I mean his ability to grasp new concepts, conduct a decent conversation, generally get on in life.

Same with my hairdresser. I don't mind him charging me £150+ each time I go because he is amazing at his job, yet trying to talk to him is positively infuriating.

It could be said, I suppose, that an intelligent person will choose a degree/job most likely to ge them a secure job, and one with high wages. But such generalisations with regard to IQ or whatever other measurement of intelligence is being used, and whether the person is more inclined to science or arts is.....well, mostly insulting, but I refuse to believe the most 'intelligent' people the world has produced thus far were all into chemical engineering.

	19-04-2005 00:12									#59
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According to GePap it makes sense to compare a 4 year degree in engineering with somebody who does a 4 year degree in liberal arts and then spends another 4 years getting a law degree.

	19-04-2005 00:13									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Verres I think there are too many exceptions to that rule for it to be taken seriously. My plumber earns a lot more than I probably ever will - yet he is dense, no two ways about it. I'm not talking about the extent of his knowledge, I mean his ability to grasp new concepts, conduct a decent conversation, generally get on in life. Same with my hairdresser. I don't mind him charging me £150+ each time I go because he is amazing at his job, yet trying to talk to him is positively infuriating. It could be said, I suppose, that an intelligent person will choose a degree/job most likely to ge them a secure job, and one with high wages. But such generalisations with regard to IQ or whatever other measurement of intelligence is being used, and whether the person is more inclined to science or arts is.....well, mostly insulting, but I refuse to believe the most 'intelligent' people the world has produced thus far were all into chemical engineering.

Are you being deliberately thick?

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Statis...orrelation.html