19-04-2005 00:51									#91
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Actually, that is exactly what is wrong with that arguement: Given that here in the US and in Canada (thought NOT in many parts of the world) if you want to study LAW and make your profession Law, as opposed to say Engineering, you need to take something in bachelors before you can move on to your required degree. So the question should be: what is the staring salary for X professions at the point at which you have attained the basic degree necessary to carry that career out. I wonder why the list leaves out degree's such as Chemistry, Physics, Mathematics, or Biology. Those are very popular degrees, yet nowhere on the list.

What? Why, other than the fact that that gives a false boost to law, medicine and other professional degrees?

If I'm interested in a career path for mercenary reasons I would certainly be interested in how much work it takes to get to my starting salary. If it takes 3 extra years to begin practicing law then there better be some extra ****ing cash in it for me.

	19-04-2005 00:53									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Do you really get a Bachelors degree in Law?

What do you think you get?

	19-04-2005 00:53									#93
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Chart -> about bachelor's degrees
Law- > not a bachelor's degree
Auto Mechanic -> not a bachelor's degree

GePap -> argues law and auto mechanics should be listed alongwide bachelor degree jobs

	19-04-2005 00:55									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I blame the ineptitude of journalist (damn liberal arts majors) for excluding that from CNN's chart, while the information was actually gathered.

Many more (as a percentage) of students with undergraduate degrees in pure sciences move on to graduate work than do students with undergraduate degrees in applied sciences, engineering or arts.

	19-04-2005 00:55									#95
	Re: Accounting is the most lucrative non-science/engineering degree Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Kidicious The average starting salary ($43k) is even higher than Information Science and Civil Engineering. Yay!

This is such an American based chart. In the UK, you'd virtually reverse it. Science paying more than arts? IIRC, from about 2 or 3 years ago, the highest payign degrees in the UK are Dentistry, Economics, Management, IT and Maths. The highest paying graduate jobs being banking, business, IT and consultancy ones, it's not hard to see why.

People who study natural sciences only get high salaries if they choose to go into management or business with them.

	19-04-2005 00:55									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Kontiki What do you think you get?

Since a Bachelor's degree is 4 years, I don't know.

Pre-Law is 4 years and then Law is 3 years.

You tell me.

Edit: Isn't law a PD (Professional Degree)?

	19-04-2005 00:56									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Kontiki What do you think you get?

a JD or LLD?

	19-04-2005 00:58									#98
	Re: Re: Accounting is the most lucrative non-science/engineering degree Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Drogue This is such an American based chart. In the UK, you'd virtually reverse it. Science paying more than arts? IIRC, from about 2 or 3 years ago, the highest payign degrees in the UK are Dentistry, Economics, Management, IT and Maths. The highest paying graduate jobs being banking, business, IT and consultancy ones, it's not hard to see why. People who study natural sciences only get high salaries if they choose to go into management or business with them.

Can we correlate the rise of power of the artsy people in the UK with the downfall of the British Empire?

	19-04-2005 00:58									#99
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I've had people tell me that I have "the coveted chemical engineering degree"...

The richest person I know is an accountant

The second richest person I know has a degree in journalism and a masters in buisness

The third richest person I know has a degree in English

The fourth richest person I know is my dad; biology, dentistry, and is a periodontist

	19-04-2005 00:59									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Chart -> about bachelor's degrees Law- > not a bachelor's degree Auto Mechanic -> not a bachelor's degree GePap -> argues law and auto mechanics should be listed alongwide bachelor degree jobs

As A social scientist, I question the worth of studies, or at least their usefulness, specially in the face of people such as yourself with an ideological ax to grind in favor of your chosen career.

The Chart itself is a useful example of how information gets used, or misused.

Obviously, if we use Krazyhorse's method, leaving out Technical schools gives you a deeply incomplete picture, but then, given the course of the Study, one can see the bias.

	19-04-2005 00:59									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Do you really get a Bachelors degree in Law?

We do. Damn good degree, though about the hardest workers at uni. The hardest at Oxford, though at most places medicine would be more work.

	19-04-2005 01:01									#102
	Re: Re: Re: Accounting is the most lucrative non-science/engineering degree Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Asher Can we correlate the rise of power of the artsy people in the UK with the downfall of the British Empire?

No, other way round. British Empire fell when it stopped being dominated solely by Oxbridge Classicists and started to widen itself slightly. Universities used to be solely arts, when science became recognised was about when the Empire collapsed.

Any more silly trolls to through at it?

	19-04-2005 01:02									#103
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quote: Originally posted by GePap As A social scientist, I question the worth of studies, or at least their usefulness, specially in the face of people such as yourself with an ideological ax to grind in favor of your chosen career. The Chart itself is a useful example of how information gets used, or misused. Obviously, if we use Krazyhorse's method, leaving out Technical schools gives you a deeply incomplete picture, but then, given the course of the Study, one can see the bias.

I admit there is a liberal-arts bias to journalism quite freely!

The axe to grind isn't with me, you're the one making ridiculous posts that make no sense to defend your chosen career.

You want associate degree/diploma graduates and professional degree graduates to be considered in a chart about bachelor's degree. Duh.

FWIW, I think after 2-3 years Professional Engineers get even higher salaries. They're not considered real engineers until they work under an engineer for 2-3 years and pass some tests after that point...or at least how that is in Canada. They can do far more (and get paid far more) after that time.

	19-04-2005 01:02									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi Lets go Econ, Lets go!

BA in Econ sucks. I think that stat is mostly BS degrees (finance).

	19-04-2005 01:01									#105
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quote: Originally posted by GePap As A social scientist, I question the worth of studies, or at least their usefulness, specially in the face of people such as yourself with an ideological ax to grind in favor of your chosen career. The Chart itself is a useful example of how information gets used, or misused. Obviously, if we use Krazyhorse's method, leaving out Technical schools gives you a deeply incomplete picture, but then, given the course of the Study, one can see the bias.

Bias my ass. It's there to provide information to freshmen in university who can't make up their minds.

As such it's useful.

	19-04-2005 01:03									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue We do. Damn good degree, though about the hardest workers at uni. The hardest at Oxford, though at most places medicine would be more work.

Law isn't a Bachelor's degree here. It's a JD or LLD.

Are you sure it's a bachelor's degree in the UK?

Here, Bachelor's Degree = 4-year undergrad program with only secondary education as a pre-req.

	19-04-2005 01:03									#107
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I feel like a sellout.

	19-04-2005 01:04									#108
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You are.

	19-04-2005 01:04									#109
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BA vs BSc means nothing, except what the university want to call it. Cambridge Natural Sciences or Maths both give BAs.

	19-04-2005 01:04									#110
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Accounting is the most lucrative non-science/engineering degree Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Drogue No, other way round. British Empire fell when it stopped being dominated solely by Oxbridge Classicists and started to widen itself slightly. Universities used to be solely arts, when science became recognised was about when the Empire collapsed. Any more silly trolls to through at it?

But the British Empire is still falling.

It's gotten to the point that you're Bush's footstool.

Even Canada has more of a spine.

	19-04-2005 01:05									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Can we correlate the rise of power of the artsy people in the UK with the downfall of the British Empire?

I like to think so.

Hopefully in a few decades you will be able to correlate (hopefully a science graduate can provide the formula) the rise of the power of artsy people in the UK with the downfall of the monarchy and the present system of government.

What else am I studying for...

	19-04-2005 01:06									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue BA vs BSc means nothing, except what the university want to call it. Cambridge Natural Sciences or Maths both give BAs.

BA vs BSc means a lot here in the civilized Western world.

BA has ridiculously easy admission requirements with ridiculously low standards, and hence ridiculously low starting salaries.

BSc students take BA courses for easy marks.

	19-04-2005 01:07									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue BA vs BSc means nothing, except what the university want to call it. Cambridge Natural Sciences or Maths both give BAs.

I wouldn't get a BA degree unless I was going on to Law, Teaching, or further degree. The degree itself really won't get you a very good job.

	19-04-2005 01:07									#114
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Law isn't a Bachelor's degree here. It's a JD or LLD.

I know.

quote: Originally posted by Asher Are you sure it's a bachelor's degree in the UK?

Yes. So is medicine.

quote: Originally posted by Asher Here, Bachelor's Degree = 4-year undergrad program with only secondary education as a pre-req.

Here, bachelors = 3 year degree with A levels as a pre-req (a levels being optional secondary education). We do a year more school and a year less university.

But then we also study one course. You don't choose your major after a year, or have compulsory minors. Hell, at some places, you do you're whole degree in one subject, no minors whatsoever.

	19-04-2005 01:09									#115
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I can't believe this thread became so popular.

	19-04-2005 01:10									#116
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse You are.

A friend of mine from universtiy works for Defence and designs new ways to blow stuff up for a living. Sounds great, but pay is not that good.

Kind of job I'd do if I didn't want money.

	19-04-2005 01:12									#117
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MOst civlized states have Law as a Bachelors degree, because that is all it really requires. The only places that don;t are the US and anyplace that emulates the US, and NOT the European system.

	19-04-2005 01:13									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Asher But the British Empire is still falling. It's gotten to the point that you're Bush's footstool. Even Canada has more of a spine.

No, the British Empire fell when we lost our empire. We're now a nation. However much spine we have, we're not an empire.

quote: Originally posted by Kidicious I wouldn't get a BA degree unless I was going on to Law, Teaching, or further degree. The degree itself really won't get you a very good job.

Degrees get you jobs? Most graduate jobs (IIRC ~60% of them) here ask for any degree, just to have a degree. Moreover, when universities only offer BAs or BScs, in some cases, companies can't only look for BScs. Over here, a BSc doesn't mean you have done any more science than a BA. It just means that's the degree they offered in that subject.

quote: Originally posted by Asher BA vs BSc means a lot here in the civilized Western world.

Which is why, becuase of our long history of civilisation, the tradition of some places results in only giving BAs. Why distinguish? They're both bachelors, and it's obvious how much science/maths you've done by the degree title. Physics is a science, Philosophy an art.

quote: Originally posted by Asher BSc students take BA courses for easy marks.

We don't even have BA or BSc courses. You apply, are accept, and enroll on a certain course, BA or BSc, whatever degree course it happens to be.

	19-04-2005 01:14									#119
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Bias my ass. It's there to provide information to freshmen in university who can't make up their minds. As such it's useful.

If you want freshmen to make up their minds, have them take core requirements so they actually experience the different professions. Lists like this certainly won't do it, as the low number of engineering students compared to liberal arts majors shows all too well.

	19-04-2005 01:15									#120
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quote: Originally posted by GePap MOst civlized states have Law as a Bachelors degree, because that is all it really requires. The only places that don;t are the US and anyplace that emulates the US, and NOT the European system.

Your argument has reached even higher absurdity levels.

Now you're talking not only about degrees that are not comparable, but you're talking about other regions of the world as if it mattered?

The content of the study is bachelor's degree starting salaries in the USA.

Are you done making an ass of yourself yet?