19-04-2005 01:15									#121
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quote: Originally posted by GePap If you want freshmen to make up their minds, have them take core requirements so they actually experience the different professions. Lists like this certainly won't do it, as the low number of engineering students compared to liberal arts majors shows all too well.

That's what happens when you have admission standards like engineering does.

Anyone with a GED can get into an arts program...

	19-04-2005 01:17									#122
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Asher: You know GePap's comment about civilised states was just to argue against your silly "civilised states have law as a postgrad course". Don't twist it as if he's comparing it to the thread title.

	19-04-2005 01:18									#123
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue Degrees get you jobs?

Ummm..... Yeah. Look at the statistics on the OP.

quote: Most graduate jobs (IIRC ~60% of them) here ask for any degree, just to have a degree. Degrees get you jobs?

That's a real bad idea. The job market isn't nearly as great as you claim it is. Maybe if you get straight A's it doesn't matter. Buy you would still get a better job with a BS, because most people realize that it's better specific training.

	19-04-2005 01:19									#124
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue Asher: You know GePap's comment about civilised states was just to argue against your silly "civilised states have law as a postgrad course". Don't twist it as if he's comparing it to the thread title.

My "civilized" comment was about BA vs BSc. Had nothing to do with Law being a bachelor's degree.

	19-04-2005 01:22									#125
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In the UK the university you attended is more important than the subject which is more important than whether you got the BA or BSc. It is a pecking order like that when considering non-specific jobs.

	19-04-2005 01:23									#126
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Your argument has reached even higher absurdity levels. Now you're talking not only about degrees that are not comparable, but you're talking about other regions of the world as if it mattered? The content of the study is bachelor's degree starting salaries in the USA. Are you done making an ass of yourself yet?

One wopuld have hoped your wonderful engineering degree would have included a basic class in reading comprehension. Obviously it did NOT.

Sad, really.

	19-04-2005 01:24									#127
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I don't have an engineering degree.

I agree, it is sad.

Do you still argue that it is reasonable to compare law salaries with that of a 4-year bachelor degre?

	19-04-2005 01:25									#128
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No, I think its obvious to compare one applied degree to another applied degree. Unlike you, I am not stuck thinking solely of meaningless labels, but on everyday reality.

	19-04-2005 01:29									#129
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious That's a real bad idea. The job market isn't nearly as great as you claim it is. Maybe if you get straight A's it doesn't matter. Buy you would still get a better job with a BS, because most people realize that it's better specific training.

But we don't have the difference between BSc and BA. They're just degrees. The job market isn't great, we have very low unemployment so there aren't mny jobs out there. However most graduate jobs still don't look for specific degrees. Many do look at what you've done, and analytical and numerical skills are highly desired, but the difference betweena BSc and a BA does not exist in the same way here, so you tell by looking at what classes they took.

	19-04-2005 01:29									#130
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quote: Originally posted by GePap No, I think its obvious to compare one applied degree to another applied degree. Unlike you, I am not stuck thinking solely of meaningless labels, but on everyday reality.

Au contraire, you're the one stuck on meaningless labels, and not the everyday reality.

Getting a law degree takes 7 years, getting a Bachelor's takes 4 years.

The two are incomparable for salary, for (what I hoped to be) obvious reasons.

Instead, we have a prime example of GePap illustrating why the Liberal Arts starting salaries are so low.

	19-04-2005 01:35									#131
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Wow, you are so well versed as to think that Political Science is a Liberal Art's degree....man, the depth of that engineering degree is pathetic.

Getting a law degree in the US takes 7 years because of the policy of Law Schools, not on the nature of the degree itself.

It is the nature of the degree that matters, not any arbitrary acceptance requirements at schools.

But as an engineer, such use of language is obviously beyond your ability to understand. If only they had attempted to give you a deeper, more rounded education....

	19-04-2005 01:38									#132
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The point is....

I get to count whatever I want and exclude whatever else I want to make my point.


To Verres
150 pounds ot get your hair done? I thought only Hollywood starlets spent that kind of money on their hair. That XXX line must pay more than I thought.

	19-04-2005 01:38									#133
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Wow, you are so well versed as to think that Political Science is a Liberal Art's degree....man, the depth of that engineering degree is pathetic. Getting a law degree in the US takes 7 years because of the policy of Law Schools, not on the nature of the degree itself.

Does not matter, at all. I'm all about the practical, I don't care that technically it doesn't require a bachelor's degree beforehand...in the real world, they do.

quote: It is the nature of the degree that matters, not any arbitrary acceptance requirements at schools.

No, GePap, the real world is what matters. It doesn't matter if you theoretically don't need a bachelor's degree before a law degree...in the real world, you do.

The "nature of the degree" is irrelevant in this case.

quote: But as an engineer, such use of language is obviously beyond your ability to understand. If only they had attempted to give you a deeper, more rounded education....

I really don't think you're in a position to talk here, GePap. You're being completely nonsensical...

(And yes, as far as I'm concerned Political Science is a Liberal Arts degree -- one of the more useless, too)

	19-04-2005 01:52									#134
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Does not matter, at all. I'm all about the practical, I don't care that technically it doesn't require a bachelor's degree beforehand...in the real world, they do.

That would depend on the Law School, no?

quote: No, GePap, the real world is what matters. It doesn't matter if you theoretically don't need a bachelor's degree before a law degree...in the real world, you do. The "nature of the degree" is irrelevant in this case.

Actually, its quite relevant. This chart is simply a collection of data when people decide that the degree they have gotten is enough for them to go out there and get work. As Krazyhorse pointed out, individuals who get certain degrees are far less likely to try to get a job after it than others-thus skewigin the results of a study like this.

quote: I really don't think you're in a position to talk here, GePap. You're being completely nonsensical... (And yes, as far as I'm concerned Political Science is a Liberal Arts degree -- one of the more useless, too)

Actually, I am commenting on the nature of this study-. The real way to measure the worth of any degree would be to do a study (not a survey) of the graduates of any one major and look at thier earnings throught the years.

Oh, and you should know, no one gives a rats ass about the opinions of an engineer outside of their given field. After all, you are not educated well enough to be giving out any opinion outside of the technical.

	19-04-2005 01:52									#135
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IMO a degree in poli sci is in actuality just like a degree in liberal arts. Either degree would qualify you for a job that you got with one or the other.

	19-04-2005 01:54									#136
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GePap, for the last time, I'm a Computer Scientist.

I deal with theory as well as the applied.

I'm not a Computer Engineer.

They are different.

And I'm disappointed, but not surprised, that you think a study on starting salaries for bachelor's degrees should be a much more comprehensive study.

It's a simple study. I'm sorry that it's not what you want it to be, but if that's the case then kindly STFU and ignore it.

Or are you mad because the salary figures are hitting a bit too close to home?

	19-04-2005 01:56									#137
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious IMO a degree in poli sci is in actuality just like a degree in liberal arts. Either degree would qualify you for a job that you got with one or the other.

If you are looking at a degree in terms of specific jobs, probably. Not if you look at a degree in terms of long term career choices. I would say Pol Sci people are probably more likely to go intop government jobs and diplomatic jobs than individuals in the liberal arts, thought just as likely probaby to go into Law.

	19-04-2005 01:59									#138
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quote: Originally posted by GePap If you are looking at a degree in terms of specific jobs, probably. Not if you look at a degree in terms of long term career choices. I would say Pol Sci people are probably more likely to go intop government jobs and diplomatic jobs than individuals in the liberal arts, thought just as likely probaby to go into Law.

Yeah. Probably more likely, but from my experience with a degree in econ the education requirements are for an econ or equivilent degree. I'm sure that a person with any degree could apply for those jobs and get them if they had good general skills.

	19-04-2005 02:02									#139
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quote: Originally posted by Asher GePap, for the last time, I'm a Computer Scientist. I deal with theory as well as the applied. I'm not a Computer Engineer. They are different. And I'm disappointed, but not surprised, that you think a study on starting salaries for bachelor's degrees should be a much more comprehensive study. It's a simple study. I'm sorry that it's not what you want it to be, but if that's the case then kindly STFU and ignore it. Or are you mad because the salary figures are hitting a bit too close to home?

If I wanted to make real money, I would be trying to enter entertainment, not engineering, for god's sake.

Having gone to a math and science HS, taken some technical classes, and taking science courses at my university, I know full well such a job would bore me to death.

As for the other point, a survey of starting salary offers for people who have decided to start looking for work after the degree they have aquired is not particularly interesting really, especially the difference between applied degrees and ay theoretical degrees. NO kidding someone who has studied in school the basics they need to start doing a specific job will get offered more than someone with a far less practical degree. Schocking, NO?

	19-04-2005 02:03									#140
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quote: Originally posted by GePap If I wanted to make real money, I would be trying to enter entertainment, not engineering, for god's sake.

I think the average engineer makes more than the average entertainer.

And no offense, but you're no more entertaining than watching paint dry.

	19-04-2005 02:05									#141
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Yeah. Probably more likely, but from my experience with a degree in econ the education requirements are for an econ or equivilent degree. I'm sure that a person with any degree could apply for those jobs and get them if they had good general skills.

That is very true- to a certain extent most jobs out there don't really call for any particualr degree, given that what you are doing is so far from resembling what you do in the university that the correlation is low.

The only jobs in whcih this is not true are more technical professions, like engineering, where you need a certain amount of practice and theory before you even start working to be able to do the job.

	19-04-2005 02:07									#142
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I think the average engineer makes more than the average entertainer.

And "the average" is not where anyone with ambition plans to be. What entertainers can make is much higher than what engineers can make, though enigneers have a much higher bottom than entertainers.

quote: And no offense, but you're no more entertaining than watching paint dry.

Who said talent was needed? William Hung rpobably made more money in the last 2 years than you.

	19-04-2005 02:10									#143
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Should've gone Chem. Engineering... damn engineers getting all the money.

	19-04-2005 02:12									#144
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quote: Originally posted by GePap That is very true- to a certain extent most jobs out there don't really call for any particualr degree, given that what you are doing is so far from resembling what you do in the university that the correlation is low. The only jobs in whcih this is not true are more technical professions, like engineering, where you need a certain amount of practice and theory before you even start working to be able to do the job.

BA degrees are fine if you don't have college loans, but I think if you have to pay back your college loans you are going to need the higher salary and a better chance of landing a job.

	19-04-2005 02:16									#145
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quote: Originally posted by Az Should've gone Chem. Engineering... damn engineers getting all the money.

and the ladies

mwahahaha

	19-04-2005 02:25									#146
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quote: Originally posted by Japher and the ladies mwahahaha

Yeah sure. Let's see a picture of a cute Chemical Engineer.

	19-04-2005 02:29									#147
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quote: Let's see a picture of a cute Chemical Engineer.

Let us not ( although truth be told, the scientists aren't really in a better shape, except, perhaps, a certain amount of females of the biological persuasion )

	19-04-2005 02:32									#148
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I went to school with 3 very hot looking Chemical Engineers. That is not much out of a class of 300+ of them, but it was more than the other engineering majors (%-wise).

	19-04-2005 02:33									#149
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There's a lot of hot Accounting majors here at my school.

	19-04-2005 02:35									#150
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There was on hot ChemE that I remember, because I work with her now. She has a BA in economics and is a project manager makin 150k/year... I think stacking on degrees is the way to go