02-05-2005 09:00									#121
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker While putting it up for adoption, you are still forced to take care of it. You can't just leave it on the street.

You can give it to an agency. Many states also have places for people who are just mentally incapable of dealing with having a child to drop the baby off, in the hopes that it prevents people from putting their babies in dumpsters. If push comes to shove, family services will take it off your hands.

	02-05-2005 09:01									#122
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Do you actually believe its hard to get into foster care che, If you do you might want to visit the hospitials i work at and see how many are placed in one freaking day. Teens that are pregnant cause they claim their parents have abused them, see i dont know how it ****ing works in florida but here in the hillbilly state of texas they kids are removed as soon as the complaint of abuse. So give some other crap that i can stuff in my other pocket.

	02-05-2005 09:01									#123
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No dropoffs after 9:00pm.

	02-05-2005 09:02									#124
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara You can give it to an agency. Many states also have places for people who are just mentally incapable of dealing with having a child to drop the baby off, in the hopes that it prevents people from putting their babies in dumpsters. If push comes to shove, family services will take it off your hands.

Only if there is such an agency. The thing is, SOMEONE is required to take care of the baby. That there are many groups willing to do so is irrelevent - there is NO requirement to take care of, say, a 19-year-old (ignoring the case of some sort of disability).

	02-05-2005 09:15									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski Teens that are pregnant cause they claim their parents have abused them,

Well then, Texas is different. Still doesn't matter. You can't take people's rights away become some people abuse them.

In any event, do you think these girls make good mothers? Is it really in the interest of our society to force 13-year old children to drop out of school and become full-time parents?

	02-05-2005 09:21									#126
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Whoa did i miss something, here?? who said the girl was going to have to raise this baby?? And I dont think she uh has been in school a whole lot to begin with.. After this kid is born it is also a ward of the state. the mother has no responsibiltites to raise it,unless she states a desire to do so.

	02-05-2005 09:28									#127
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski who said the girl was going to have to raise this baby??

That's generally how things work. Even if they didn't want it to begin with, girls have this habit of changing their minds after they see the little, pink, squirmy thing. Basically, there are too many bad parents in the world. We shouldn't be encouraging more of them.

	02-05-2005 22:28									#128
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Right, cuz children should have to pay the consequences of adults. A fetus is nothing but a lump of flesh. There is nothing wrong with abortion. If more conservatives had them the world would be a better place.

I am pro-choice, but even I cringe at the thought that others can go to the extent in reducing an embryo with the descrptive words, "lump of flesh."

	02-05-2005 22:35									#129
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Yeah, you're right, it's too generous a description. An embryo doesn't even have any flesh!

(I get your point and agree though- if you need to dehumanise a foetus, then you need to ask yourself why)

	02-05-2005 22:42									#130
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Yeah -- since I'm pro-choice, I'm trying to figure out exactly why I find Chegitz's extreme-reductionist statement disturbing.

	03-05-2005 00:11									#131
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I am pro choice as well as long as abortion isnt used as a form of birth control.. This child has made no known statements she wants to raise this baby. so only speculation is what folks are going on. the world doesnt need more teen moms but, im soory this is a fact of life and needs to be delt with. Ans as i stated before the thing that bothers me is she is a constant runaway and in foster care. The fact she is pregnant now was just a thing waiting to happen.

	03-05-2005 00:21									#132
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun I am pro-choice, but even I cringe at the thought that others can go to the extent in reducing an embryo with the descrptive words, "lump of flesh."

It is interesting, Mr. Fun, Che Guevara seems to agree that this "lump of lush" becomes a "human being" the moment after it leaves the mother's body. I wonder what magic transforms this "lump of lush" into a human being at that moment?

	03-05-2005 00:23									#133
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski I am pro choice as well as long as abortion isnt used as a form of birth control..

Then how is it possible to be pro-choice because that is almost the only reason for abortion in the United States.

	03-05-2005 00:27									#134
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Then how is it possible to be pro-choice because that is almost the only reason for abortion in the United States.

Because you wan't to give a second chance to pregnant women when something went wrong?

	03-05-2005 00:35									#135
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Nobody with a conscious LIKES abortion, If you do you are sick; it is a necissary evil because the alternative, unwanted kids that end up badly raised, is worse.

	03-05-2005 00:37									#136
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Because you wan't to give a second chance to pregnant women when something went wrong?

Sugar coating.

	03-05-2005 00:39									#137
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Sugar coating.

There is no sugar-coating the trauma that women go through with an unwanted pregnancy. Even women who choose to have an abortion, do so with serious tribulation, consideration, and second-thoughts.


I agree with the royal highness (Mrs. Tubes) -- I support abortion as long its not for convenient birth control.

	03-05-2005 00:41									#138
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Nobody with a conscious LIKES abortion, If you do you are sick; it is a necissary evil because the alternative, unwanted kids that end up badly raised, is worse.

This, of course, is not universally true, while it could be true in some circumstances. Besides, there are many kids being abused by a parent or parents or relatives when they were "wanted" by their mother.

But, given there is always the option of adoption and no shortage of willing parents, there in no inevitability that a baby will be raised by an unwilling mother.

	03-05-2005 00:51									#139
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun There is no sugar-coating the trauma that women go through with an unwanted pregnancy. Even women who choose to have an abortion, do so with serious tribulation, consideration, and second-thoughts. I agree with the royal highness (Mrs. Tubes) -- I support abortion as long its not for convenient birth control.

No doubt.

But it is still a form of birth control, which Mrs. T said she opposes.

	03-05-2005 00:53									#140
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There is a difference between wanting to abort a fetus for merely convenience, and wanting/needing to abort a fetus because she would not want to go through a pregnancy that originated from rape, or that would endanger her life.

	03-05-2005 00:53									#141
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quote: Originally posted by Ned But, given there is always the option of adoption and no shortage of willing parents

This is sadly false. In the US, there is no shortage of parents willing to adopt a white baby, but many less willing to adopt a black one (and the reasons aren't necessarily racist: you don't want your kid's adoptiveness to be too obvious, because he could be picked on at school, have identity crises etc.).

And the teen pregnancy problem is especially powerful among the black population.

	03-05-2005 00:56									#142
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quote: Originally posted by Ned But it is still a form of birth control, which Mrs. T said she opposes.

I think she meant "primary" form of birth control.

Unless the current debate in the US is structured in such a way that a person who agrees with abortion only for medical purposes is called "pro-choice"?

	03-05-2005 03:11									#143
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun There is a difference between wanting to abort a fetus for merely convenience, and wanting/needing to abort a fetus because she would not want to go through a pregnancy that originated from rape, or that would endanger her life.

True. But most abortions have nothing whatsoever to do with rape or life.

	03-05-2005 03:11									#144
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor This is sadly false. In the US, there is no shortage of parents willing to adopt a white baby, but many less willing to adopt a black one (and the reasons aren't necessarily racist: you don't want your kid's adoptiveness to be too obvious, because he could be picked on at school, have identity crises etc.). And the teen pregnancy problem is especially powerful among the black population.

Why?

	03-05-2005 03:14									#145
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I think she meant "primary" form of birth control. Unless the current debate in the US is structured in such a way that a person who agrees with abortion only for medical purposes is called "pro-choice"?

Regardless of smoke screens about this or that, abortion is a form of birth control for most women who have abortions. I personally think this is permissible until the fetus is formed and is aware to some degree.

	03-05-2005 04:47									#146
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Nobody with a conscious LIKES abortion, If you do you are sick;

I don't see it as a necessary evil, nor more than I see any operation as a necessary evil. I have no problems with abortion. The only reason people do is cuz they've had it hammered into their heads by religious people that it's somehow wrong. It's part and parcel of the whole anti-sex movement. People have to be punished for having sex for fun. If you are careless or have an accident, you need to spend the next two decades taking care of another human being. Hell, you don't even go to prison for that long for raping someone.

quote: it is a necissary evil because the alternative, unwanted kids that end up badly raised, is worse.

No, it is necessary because individual women have the right to have the final say over what occurs with their bodies. The problem isn't that this little girl is trying to have an abortion. The problem is the state is trying to force this little girl to have a baby.

	03-05-2005 04:51									#147
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor And the teen pregnancy problem is especially powerful among the black population.

Actually, the teen pregnancy rate is slightly higher among white girls, or at least it was 14 years ago. The reason we notice it more among Blacks is the same reason we notice all social ills among Blacks more, they are concentrated in major media markets, rather than scattered all over the country.

A recent study indicates that poor Black children get pregnant not by accident, but because they chose to get pregnant. They believe in starting a family early.

	03-05-2005 04:53									#148
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I personally think this is permissible until the fetus is formed and is aware to some degree.

What degree? Are we simply talking about reactions to external stimuli or something more substantial, such as recognition and memory? If the later, I agree with you, because to me that marks the beginning of personhood.

	03-05-2005 06:12									#149
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Spiffor:

quote: I think she meant "primary" form of birth control.

So you believe then, that the woman who chooses to use contraception, and those contraceptive devices fail; ought to be treated differently from a woman who chooses not to use these devices?

There are a couple problems with this line of thinking. First of all, men are responsible for the children they conceive, not the children they intended to conceive.

Why one law for men, and another for women? It makes no sense to me.

	03-05-2005 06:43									#150
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Then how is it possible to be pro-choice because that is almost the only reason for abortion in the United States.

Ok For the most clearest waY I can state this..... Abortion isnt a form of birth control for most women. Sure its a way out for the most needyiest but not a form for such as hookers not using a condom and then going for an abortion everytime she got preg, or the hi school slut that has been pregnant 4 times already with no other forms of birth control used.

Ned if you believe that then i dont know what to say to ya. I will give you one hint Its called RAPE, incest, etc