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Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 16:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Saras
And "human rights abuses" are worse in France i.e. scarf ban

There's much worse in France than the scarf ban. We and Turkey are the only countries that the EU court for human rights found guilty of torture (in jails). Our record with local languages is horrendous by EU standards. Our transit zones for illegal or borderline immigrants are a shame. Our recent laws leave people wholly in the hands of the police without lawyer's protection for four days.

There's much to clean here too. Just because I speak of Baltic countries in this Baltic thread (and a bit of Hungary, for comnparison purposes), doens't mean that all is good and nice elsewhere.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 16:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Saras
I think pekka meant the OP. The burden of apology is certainly on the Russian Federation.

Forgot to reply to it: absolutely. The Russians are the ones who did the horrendous crimes. The Russophones in Latvia are living in HappyHappyShinyLand in comparison to what the Latvians had under Stalin (and the Russophones have it much, much better than the Latvians had under post-Stalinist USSR)

Saras is offline Saras
King
Vilnius, Lithuania
Apr 1999
time: 06:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 16:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
At least in the US everyone born here is an automatic citizen.


Good for US.

Saras is offline Saras
King
Vilnius, Lithuania
Apr 1999
time: 06:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 16:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor

Forgot to reply to it: absolutely. The Russians are the ones who did the horrendous crimes. The Russophones in Latvia are living in HappyHappyShinyLand in comparison to what the Latvians had under Stalin (and the Russophones have it much, much better than the Latvians had under post-Stalinist USSR)


Good that we have that settled, then.

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 16:14
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Yes good. I mean, no I was n't talking about the situation what russians have to deal with in other countries. I guess there are lots of russophobes in neighbouring countries and elsewhere too, but jeesh, I wonder why that is?

of course I wouldn't promote isolating or mistreating or whatever of russians in other countries, that's just stupid. They have nothing to do with past things, and they are wanted in here as tourists and business for sure, and in fact they are (I THINK) the biggest tourist base and bring a great amount of business in here and that's a fact. The biggest resource in our business in general. Why would I want to go and say 'don't come here' or something else that is stupid, from business point of view and from general point of view as well, they are not to be blamed of anything in here at least. It's not a justification to .. to try to hinder russians in here, however it's a real reason why some people think what they think. Idiots are everywhere, no one has the exclusive rights to idiots.

So I'm not talking about russian people, I 'm talking about their political leadership.

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 16:21
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And russians are also the biggest minority in here so.. what can you say. You have to get along and start appreciating or you have to move to another country than here . So, painful for racists and true russophobes, but no one else really cares, so it's business as usual.

However, my points, look at the topic. So no I wasn't being threadjacking or anything else.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 16:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
So, I assume your citizenship papers in Britain have all been submitted? I doubt the Native Americans are gong to tolerate you for too long once the US cedes its territory back to them...


Meh, they're dead so they don't matter. Those that remain all own casinos and I doubt they'd want all of their customers going back to Europe.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 16:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Saras

Good for US.


We don't really worry about language because we know the English speaking cultural juggernaut will assimilate you all!

Combat Ingrid is offline Combat Ingrid
Chieftain
Satan's Majestic Empire
Nov 2001
time: 06:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 17:18
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Do the governments provide the Russians with free language courses? Or do they just tell them to "learn our language or go **** yourself"?

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 17:27
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That would be a great propaganda tool. "We even offered to give them free language lessons and those lazy Russians wouldn't show up for class."

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 17:35 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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What are the % of people of Russian decendance in Latvia, Esthonia and (basketball powning) Lithuania?

Saras is offline Saras
King
Vilnius, Lithuania
Apr 1999
time: 06:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 17:39
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44% latvia, ~35% Estonia, ~9% Lithuania.

Hey, I had a Kozani Makedonikos scarf, but lost it in the Charleroi airport

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 17:40 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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You went there? COOL!

Man, your whistles and horn blowing devastated us
(saw it on TV)

Saras is offline Saras
King
Vilnius, Lithuania
Apr 1999
time: 06:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 17:42
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I couldn't talk for two days

Saras is offline Saras
King
Vilnius, Lithuania
Apr 1999
time: 06:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 17:46
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Also refused to get off the plane in Vilnius

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 17:49 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Saras
Good for US.


Just one more reason why we're better than you.

The Vagabond is offline The Vagabond
Chieftain
of realpolitik and counterpropaganda
Jan 1970
time: 05:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 21:30
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Issueing an apology should be practical in a given overall context of politics. It should fall on a fertile soil. Otherwise, it would be just plain stupid politics with disastrous consequences. The present political context makes the apologetic way impossible. Nothing personal, it's just a matter of good politics.

The Vagabond is offline The Vagabond
Chieftain
of realpolitik and counterpropaganda
Jan 1970
time: 05:18
Post  Old Post 04-05-2005 21:35
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So, in a word, this so-called PM Rasmussen should be squashed like an insect for his stupid chatter.

St Leo is offline St Leo
King of Scenario League
Member of the Apolyton Social Democratic Party
Jul 2005
time: 00:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 22:11 Visit St Leo<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Combat Ingrid
Do the governments provide the Russians with free language courses? Or do they just tell them to "learn our language or go **** yourself"?


Not, but Latvia does have public education in both Latvian and Russian. Russian kids aren't being forced to assimilate by any means.

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 22:18
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44% of people in Latvia are russians? Wow.. that's a lot I guess.

Saras is offline Saras
King
Vilnius, Lithuania
Apr 1999
time: 06:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 23:01
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ludzu, petrazickis will explain it all.

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
Emperor
FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 23:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor

Yes, when it comes to the outposts in the Gaza strip and the west bank, because I consider the adults there to be willing agents of a dream of Grand Israel.
I'm against removing the established suburbs of Jerusalem.

If we had discussed the issue 30 years ago, I'd have been supportive of anti-Russophone policies. Because the Russophones would be recent immigrants, and not their children. Today, those who are punished did not choose their situation (mind you, maybe the original Russians were forced to migrate too)


Spiff, some of the Gaza settlements are quite as old as settlements like Maaleh Adumim on the West Bank (suburbs of Jerusalem) and are equally multigenerational. The distinction that I and others have drawn between both Gaza and isolated west bank settlements and places like Maaleh Adumim, is NOT their multigenerational status, but their geography, proximat either to Jerusalem or to the narrow waist of Israel, so that they need to be retained in Israel for Israel to be secure. (among other reasons) AFAIK no part of the Baltics is close to Moscow, and even St Petersburg is not in the precarious strategic position of Israeli cities (and to the extent it is, its cause of the evil finns, not the Estonians)

In any case, AFAIK the russian language and people were born in the forests of central Russia, and, arguably, in the steppes of Ukraine. Theres no real analogy between their presence in the Baltics and that of Israeli Jews in Israel or in the territories.

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
Emperor
FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:18
  Old Post 04-05-2005 23:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor

There's much worse in France than the scarf ban. We and Turkey are the only countries that the EU court for human rights found guilty of torture (in jails). Our record with local languages is horrendous by EU standards. Our transit zones for illegal or borderline immigrants are a shame. Our recent laws leave people wholly in the hands of the police without lawyer's protection for four days.

There's much to clean here too. Just because I speak of Baltic countries in this Baltic thread (and a bit of Hungary, for comnparison purposes), doens't mean that all is good and nice elsewhere.


Ok, supposing Latvia says you dont have to learn Latvian to become a citizen, you can learn Latvian or Breton But i bet there sense of humor aint that good.

Saras is offline Saras
King
Vilnius, Lithuania
Apr 1999
time: 06:18
  Old Post 05-05-2005 11:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Lancer
Saras, when we first discussed this topic some years back you defended the Rooskies among you etc. Do you recall? We joked about them throwing hockey games or football or something...


Can't recall that.

VetLegion is offline VetLegion
Prince

Sep 1999
time: 06:18
  Old Post 05-05-2005 14:48
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EU

Citizenship rights for the minorities

Minority special representatives in parliament (such as exist in Croatia)

BeBro is offline BeBro
King
of the Krauts
Mar 2000
time: 06:18
  Old Post 05-05-2005 14:50 Visit BeBro's homepage!
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"Minority special representatives in parliament"

What's wrong with them?

VetLegion is offline VetLegion
Prince

Sep 1999
time: 06:18
  Old Post 05-05-2005 14:52
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Do you have them in Germany for Turks?

Vince278 is offline Vince278
King

Dec 2002
time: 05:18
  Old Post 05-05-2005 15:02
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I'm looking forward to Serb's comments.

Saras is offline Saras
King
Vilnius, Lithuania
Apr 1999
time: 06:18
  Old Post 05-05-2005 15:15
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I have him on ignore

MarkG is offline MarkG
Grand Lord of Apolyton, Owner of all this land as far as the eye can see

Donate to the Red Cross
Macedonia, Greece
Jan 1970
time: 07:18
  Old Post 05-05-2005 15:37 Visit MarkG<br><img src=/forums/images/admin-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Qilue
Turkey demands an apology from Greece for the destruction of Troy?
turks didnt exist at the time

 
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