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Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
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  Old Post 11-05-2005 04:52
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Ronald Reagan Remove this text

OK! Time to engage into some serious discussion.

I've seen a lot of folks (especially Americans) bash Reagan. I have to admit, all those have flown right through my head, because it's always a statement 'REAGAN IS TEH EVIL!'. I never understood why exactly?

Ok here is what first comes to my head, I'm not very educated on this matter I admit, but here are my associations by default right now, and I hope to further my knowledge on him:

- Was president from early 80s to late 80s. Basically the 80s.
- Actor
- passed away last year after being sick for a long time with the one you forget things, even your relatives etc.
- Wife Nancy
- Good looking couple
- Conservative
- anti-communist
- assassination attempt failed on him
- Turned the heat on in Cold War, but ended up with a victory, against evil empire.

So far, I don't see anything evil in here. So what gives?
-

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:20
  Old Post 11-05-2005 04:53
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Teh Reagan

One of my favorite Presidents.

Theben is offline Theben
Emperor
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Jan 1970
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  Old Post 11-05-2005 04:54
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Wife Nancy isn't bad enough for you?

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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Smashed unions
tried to start a nuclear war
anti-gay
anti-pornography
aided the Chrisitan right in taking over America
liked Finland

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
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Apr 2001
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teh Reagan

one of the worst presidents in the history of the US. when he was done screwing the united states over we were morally and financially bankrupt.
Reagan did such great things as:

-slap tariffs on Korea and Bangladesh over textiles, even though he was a free trader
-sent marines to lebanon with no clear mission. 200 of them got blown up intheir beds
-****ed around in iran, nicaragua, panama, ecuador and presided over a CIA who killed off democractically elected officials in some of these countries
-spent billions on star wars - a defense system that makes america less safe and 20 years later we still dont have a working system
-got us invovled in afghanistan, and now its come back to bite us in the ass (see Osama)
-got us invovled with Saddam, and now its come back to bite us in the ass (see Saddam)
-single handedly created the problem we have now - terrorism.

Pekka is offline Pekka
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Feb 2002
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  Old Post 11-05-2005 04:58
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che, please elaborate on the trying to start a nuclear war?

Pekka is offline Pekka
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Feb 2002
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  Old Post 11-05-2005 05:01
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LoA, star wars, yeah I know that one.

I don't know much anything about south american trials and tribulations. I've HEARD things but I can't say that I know about it.

reds4ever is offline reds4ever
Prince
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Mar 2001
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  Old Post 11-05-2005 05:01
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Reagan probably had sex with Margaret Thatcher

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
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Apr 2001
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quote:

I don't know much anything about south american trials and tribulations. I've HEARD things but I can't say that I know about it.


when Ecuadors president refused to allow oil companies preferential deals, the CIA had his assassinated (helicopter blown up)
when panama's president refused to give back to the US the canal zone, and was thinking about making another canal with japanese money with no locks that could handle larger boats, and when he refused to play ball with americans companies, the CIA attempted to have him assassinated. they failed and then the US invaded panama.

in both cases, the next presidents put in place, who owed their position to the US, quickly agreed to what the US companies wanted.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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quote:
Originally posted by Pekka
che, please elaborate on the trying to start a nuclear war?


Reagan said it was possible to win a nuclear war and even joked once to reporters that he'd started one. TeH Reagan was a dispensationalist, and at that time, one of their beliefs was that the U.S. was God's instrument on Earth to destroy the atheist USSR and bring about Armeggedon. Fortunately for humanity, the Soviets surrendered instead.

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
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Apr 2001
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quote:
Reagan probably had sex with Margaret Thatcher


politics is a mans world.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 11-05-2005 05:06 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by reds4ever
Reagan probably had sex with Margaret Thatcher


Nah, Reagan hated gays.

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
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Feb 2002
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  Old Post 11-05-2005 05:07
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che, that doesn't sound right. Maybe you are telling a myth about the armageddon part. Anything else, saying those thigns does not mean trying to start a nuclear war.

LoA, oh yes the Panama thing I remember. But are there more sides to this story?

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
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(paraphrasing from something che said to Ned... though this time its about starting a nuke war)

How's the crack, che?

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
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Apr 2001
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  Old Post 11-05-2005 05:09
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quote:

LoA, oh yes the Panama thing I remember. But are there more sides to this story?


nope, other then the desperate PR put on by those american companies alleging that the democratically elected officials in those countries were commies, which is a flat out lie, designed to cover and give a reason to go in and take em out.

Pekka is offline Pekka
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Feb 2002
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  Old Post 11-05-2005 05:11
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So, do the Reagan supporters agree with this Panama version or not?

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
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Apr 2001
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  Old Post 11-05-2005 05:13
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nah, they seem to have developped the same amnesia that reagan had.

Pekka is offline Pekka
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  Old Post 11-05-2005 05:16
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Well take no offense if I still want to hear the other side of the story

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
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  Old Post 11-05-2005 05:17 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
(paraphrasing from something che said to Ned... though this time its about starting a nuke war)

How's the crack, che?


Hoisted on my own petard.

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
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  Old Post 11-05-2005 05:17
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quote:
Well take no offense if I still want to hear the other side of the story


sadly, there is no other side of this story

BlackCat is offline BlackCat
Warlord

Jul 2004
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  Old Post 11-05-2005 05:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia


sadly, there is no other side of this story


or maybe the fantasies are ignored - such things can drive any conspiracy addicts crazy.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
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  Old Post 11-05-2005 05:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Pekka
Well take no offense if I still want to hear the other side of the story


Good, because LoA is talking out of his ass. Panama was led by a military dictatorship since 1972, well before Reagan's time. Noriega succeeded Torrijos and Paredas through the fun backstabbing involved in military dicatatorships. The negotiations between Torrijos and Japanese for another canal were rumored. However, an associate of Noriega, Colonel Diaz Herrera, accuses Noriega of planting the bomb on the plane that killed Torrijos.

Though Torrijos was in NO WAY democratically elected.

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
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Feb 2002
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  Old Post 11-05-2005 05:32
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OK so this Panama thing is definitely a beef and not clear cut simple. So why did US invade Panama afterwards? To easy up possible rebellion after attempted assassination?

Admiral is offline Admiral
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 11-05-2005 05:32
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Even Reagan's supporters have to admit that in the end, he believed that the ends justified the means, and would go to any ends to land blows on Communism. Grenada is an excellent example. When they elected a leftist government, which tried to make American companies answerable to the Grenada government on Grenadan soil, Reagan invaded.

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
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Apr 2001
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  Old Post 11-05-2005 05:34
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quote:


Good, because LoA is talking out of his ass. Panama was led by a military dictatorship since 1972, well before Reagan's time. Noriega succeeded Torrijos and Paredas through the fun backstabbing involved in military dicatatorships. The negotiations between Torrijos and Japanese for another canal were rumored. However, an associate of Noriega, Colonel Diaz Herrera, accuses Noriega of planting the bomb on the plane that killed Torrijos.


from the US library of congress

quote:
The 1978 amendments to the Constitution were the first step in the process of restoring civilian rule. That same year, the government allowed exiled political opponents to return, permitted the re-emergence of political parties, and promised to hold legislative elections in 1980 and presidential elections in 1984. Only parties that could register 30,000 members, however, would gain official recognition. Torrijos and his supporters used the new system to create their own political party, the PRD, which tried to combine the old elements of the Torrijos coalition into a single political structure. Torrijos also appointed a new civilian president, Aristides Royo, and announced that he was relinquishing the special powers he had exercised since 1972.


quote:
In the 1980 elections for nineteen of the fifty-seven seats in the legislature, the principal parties to emerge were the PRD, with twelve seats, and the opposition National Liberal Party (Partido Liberal Nacional--PLN), with five seats, and Christian Democratic Party (Partido Demócrato Cristiano--PDC), with one seat.


so he was democratically elected.

as for the rumours that it was noriega who killed him, John Perkins, an inside man who worked for Chas T MAIN in the 70s and 80s, and who knew how things worked in those times between US international investors, the CIA, and the pentagon, alleges in his book that it was the CIA would had both presidents killed off. he would know more then anyone.

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
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Apr 2001
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  Old Post 11-05-2005 05:41
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quote:
Even Reagan's supporters have to admit that in the end, he believed that the ends justified the means, and would go to any ends to land blows on Communism. Grenada is an excellent example. When they elected a leftist government, which tried to make American companies answerable to the Grenada government on Grenadan soil, Reagan invaded.




thats right, and thats also why the CIA had ecuadors and panamas prezs killed off. then they tried and failed on Noreiga, so they had to invade. they tried and failed on victor hugo (and the white house was caught with its pants down on that one, saying they supported the new government, one which they had helped to put in place due to the CIA, and then had to reverse course because the CIA failed. venezuela would have been invaded next if sept 11th hadnt happened and we hadnt invaded iraq instead, another spot where first the US companies failed to get saddam to agree with them, then the CIA failed to get rid of him, and then the army went in to take him out once and for all. also see castro. the US companies failed to get him to agree with their terms, the CIA failed, and then the invasion failed also. if they hadnt had nukes, we prolly would have tried again to invade)

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
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and, we can see a pattern emerging. one that cannot be ignored.

Iran: US sets up puppet regime that is pliant the US multinational firms. CIA fails to keep country under control, an anti US person takes power (Ayatollahs) so what do we do? we go to Irans enemy . . .

Iraq: US supports Saddams baath party, he allows US companies to do what they want, he gets lots of weapons to fight Iran, but then gets out of control and the US can no longer control him. CIA fails, invasion the first time somewhat works. Saddam still doesnt play ball with the US, we invade again and finish the job.

Ecuador: President kicks out SIL and refuses to deal with US oil companies. CIA takes him down, installs new leader who is dependant on his position because of US, does what US companies want him to do

Panama: president refuses to renogociate panama canal deal, doesnt play ball with US companies. CIA takes him down, but a bigger monster takes his place. Assassination attempts on Noreiga fail. Army invades.

Grenanda: leader refuses to cooperate with US. Gets invaded, and a new more pliant person to US conglomerate interests is installed.

reds4ever is offline reds4ever
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quote:
Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
and, we can see a pattern emerging. one that cannot be ignored.

Iran: US sets up puppet regime that is pliant the US multinational firms. CIA fails to keep country under control, an anti US person takes power (Ayatollahs) so what do we do? we go to Irans enemy . . .

Iraq: US supports Saddams baath party, he allows US companies to do what they want, he gets lots of weapons to fight Iran, but then gets out of control and the US can no longer control him. CIA fails, invasion the first time somewhat works. Saddam still doesnt play ball with the US, we invade again and finish the job.

Ecuador: President kicks out SIL and refuses to deal with US oil companies. CIA takes him down, installs new leader who is dependant on his position because of US, does what US companies want him to do

Panama: president refuses to renogociate panama canal deal, doesnt play ball with US companies. CIA takes him down, but a bigger monster takes his place. Assassination attempts on Noreiga fail. Army invades.

Grenanda: leader refuses to cooperate with US. Gets invaded, and a new more pliant person to US conglomerate interests is installed.


It's taken you *HOW* long to figure that out?

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
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Apr 2001
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250 pages from an insider who participated in these events.

Pekka is offline Pekka
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OK OK.. so south american part of his presidency is at least troublesome.

Next?

 
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