12-06-2005 19:52									#91
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Catapults - all catapults to Invictus. Bombard them, weaken them.

	12-06-2005 19:53									#92
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All Catapults are already on the mountain outside Invictus.....all one of them

	13-06-2005 06:29									#93
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1500BC

our 12 units on the mountain are facing off their 16 units, who have fortified. We have now seized the momentum. If they withdraw back towards their own lands, I strongly suggest that our army follows them through the mountain. Unfortunately though, if they return the way they came they will hit flat ground and disappear before we have a chance to strike.

3 Immortals have been moved back to Antioch. More Immortals are being built in our 3 Barracks towns.

A Horde Scout is on a mountain 2 tiles from Antioch and Aquarius, watching our every movement. I have moved a Horseman to a position from which he can strike next turn if the Scout does not move. This would be in retaliation to the murder of our Warrior. This however may fly in the face of the diplomatic efforts of Moonbars in peace talks with the Horde - opinions?

	13-06-2005 08:00									#94
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Let's at least make the threatening gesture. We just can't let them sit there and do nothing.

	14-06-2005 07:00									#95
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1475BC

We did make a threatening gesture - we executed their Scout.

This should test out the skills of our Foreign Minister


In other news, the Euphorican stack remained fortified on the mountain.

We really need to discuss ongoing strategy. The situation has developed into a stalemate, with our fortified Immortals and Spearmen trapped on the mountain overlooking Invictus to guard against the Euphorican stack. This leaves precious few Immortals to pursue our invasion strategy.

One possible solution is to build some Spearmen to free up the Immortals to travel to the planned invasion site. Another is to build a bunch of Cats to pound their units and then attack them on the mountain.

Any other suggestions?

	14-06-2005 07:04									#96
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Building lots of catapults to pound them is a good idea. When they've lost enough hit points they will go away and we won't have lost a single unit (assuming they don't attack).
I'm glad we killed their scout. That'll learn 'em. Hopefully they are too busy with other matters to send an army against us.

	14-06-2005 08:57									#97
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Their "other matters", being their war against Angh-Morpork, have dissolved since they have made peace.

On the other hand, we are a long way from them and sending troops to our lands is a major commitment. I don't think they will do it.

	14-06-2005 12:25									#98
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I can't do much if you keep starting wars. Killing their scout served no purpose at all, you acted against the advise of my Ministry. You have placed us in a position where we are likely to be at war with two civilizations at the time time, in a period when both are at war with no other civ.

I would be very suprised if in 10-20 turns we dont see a horde invasion.

	14-06-2005 17:48									#99
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You are indeed right, Lord Moonbars. I did indeed act against your advice, and I fully expected chastisement. I am clearly a proud Warrior at heart who does not take kindly to the treatment handed out to us by the Horde, yet I greatly value your counsel.

I believe with your expert handling of Plato and my whispering in Paddy's ear we can avoid an all out war with the Horde. As you say, it will take some time for them to get their act together, and even then, sending a significant army all that distance to our lands will expose them to attack from other quarters. Paddy knows this well and will not allow his rabble of a Council to force his hand in this direction.

On the other hand, the pride of Desolation Row has now been satisifed. This was an issue that in my view was non-negotiable. We were never going to get reparations from Plato, and we have now extracted them on our own terms. The Desolation Row is a force not to be trifled with.

I now leave the peace discussions in your most capable hands

Last edited by Aqualung71 on 16-06-2005 at 15:09

	15-06-2005 00:25									#100
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reparations? What have we gained? nothing. in fact, the best outcome would have been peace, and that's going to be very unlikely now.

	15-06-2005 11:29									#101
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It looks like they were planning to attack us all along. A huge stack of units has just appeared near Sidon. The Euphoricans have obviously just been waiting for their allies to arrive.
Let's hope our defenders are both strong and lucky.

	15-06-2005 11:44									#102
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Units of whom? The Horde? How many and what type?

	15-06-2005 12:00									#103
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About twenty units of many types. Yes, the Horde.

	15-06-2005 12:07									#104
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Well then, it seems an alliance was formed against us some time ago. I would guess there is nothing we can do and it is essentially curtains for us

	15-06-2005 12:08									#105
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Perhaps our southern neighbours will help?

	15-06-2005 13:02									#106
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no time.

We should withdraw from Sidon, and then launch back against the horde. they have only 3 spears, no cats at all (1 archer) and 7 or 8 horses + 6 swords.

I suggest withdrawing - but not disbanding - Sidon, and then hitting them with the 10 or so Immortals & horses that we can muster for the next turn. It's not game over unless you give up trying, and our position is far far far from hopeless.

For our leader to think it's all over before we've even attacked anything other than harmless scouts is not good! We will soon be in our golden age, and will be able to churn out more units.

I believe we can still win! Let us not be defeatist!

Last edited by Moonbars on 15-06-2005 at 18:10

	15-06-2005 13:06									#107
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we need to quickly build spears and cats, all our units will effectively be in two stacks! Perhaps we should consider pop-rushing.

	15-06-2005 19:01									#108
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Oh, I am not giving up hope at all. I am however, trying to cry poor to whoever may listen.

There is a possibility that the Horde may accept tribute of some kind. I've discussed this with Paddy already, and he didn't rule it out.

I suggest we attack Euphorica to launch our GA. I also suggest we reduce our stack on the mountain to barely defensible numbers and send the rest towards Sidon. They have 8 Horses that can attack next turn, so there's a chance we can hold the town. If we rush Walls, then next turn with more defenders we will have a better chance of repelling an attack.

Thoughts?

	15-06-2005 19:11									#109
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Sidon is gone, IMO.

The eight horses can take it, we have 2 reg imortals and 1 vet spear + 2 horses and a warrior, so it is possible we can hold it, and the horde may opt not to attack it anyway, but a safer bet is to put everything BEHIND Sidon, except the vet spear who we leave behind, and rush walls.

Thinking is that if they attack, we'll not be able to survive, so no point having lots of unit in ther to get killed. Better to keep the horsies and the warrior back to retake the town the following turn. But they may not attack, so leave the spear & rush walls, so that if they do not attack, we have a good base to strike from.

they will not be able to see we have pulled out, and we can whack their weakly defended stack from within sidon next turn.

If they DO attack it, they'll have (at least one) horsies stuck in there with no decent defenders, and we might well kill or wound a horsie when they attack, We can then smash them with our immortals & two horsemen.

I can see an arguement for leaving the warrior behind with the spear, but I think he'd be better off moving behind Sidon.

***

Regarding the other front, I say don't attack the mountain stack. we'll be able to trigger our GA soon enough without possibly sending an immortal to his death first. Also, I disagree with splitting this stack. keep it there, the enemy may do what we want and attack it. I do suggest however replacing the immortals in that stack, especially the vets, with spears & cats.

Last edited by Moonbars on 15-06-2005 at 19:16

	15-06-2005 19:25									#110
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Can you get onto MSN now? Masuro is also there.

	15-06-2005 19:26									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Aqualung71 Oh, I am not giving up hope at all. I am however, trying to cry poor to whoever may listen. There is a possibility that the Horde may accept tribute of some kind. I've discussed this with Paddy already, and he didn't rule it out.

I say we destory the horde stack and *then* offer them peace.

They are clearly not wanting peace, and never have, and I disagree with giving them tribute - when that stack comes back, they'll be wanting tribute again..

that stack can take Sidon, possibly next turn possibly in two, but after that we'll have more troops in the area than them. Kill them. Kill them all.

	15-06-2005 19:32									#112
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can be online in 2 hours..

	15-06-2005 19:35									#113
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Wow, and here was I thinking that you're the diplomat

The problem with rushing walls is that it will reduce the pop to 1, so if they take it they will raze it. In any case, there's every chance they will raze it anway.

I have suggested to Paddy that we can gift them Currency immediately, and provide them with Republic when complete. But I also said this is on the basis that we have a long term tech alliance and don't attack each other. I've also said we can pledge not to attack them with Immortals ever, and that we can help them take Euphorican land which is more useful to them than ours.

I also said this is just off the top of my head and I don't have the sanction of the Council yet. I also said I will not waste time talking any more if they cannot tell us that peace is even possible.

Waiting for him to respond after talking to his Horde.

My thinking here is that offering tribute at least buys us some vital turns in which we can build walls and more immortals to defend the town.

	15-06-2005 19:37									#114
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Ok, I will delay playing until then and we can chat further.

	15-06-2005 19:42									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Aqualung71 Wow, and here was I thinking that you're the diplomat

the time for diplomacy is over. kill!

quote: The problem with rushing walls is that it will reduce the pop to 1, so if they take it they will raze it. In any case, there's every chance they will raze it anway.

If they take it, I have no problem with it being destroyed, that is part of the benefits Sidon is pretty worthless anyway.

quote: I have suggested to Paddy that we can gift them....My thinking here is that offering tribute at least buys us some vital turns in which we can build walls and more immortals to defend the town.

I'd rather lose Sidon than gift them valuable techs, and remember that by the time they advance past Sidon, we'll be ready! let us instead forge strong partnerships with the other tribes by trading them these techs.

	15-06-2005 19:42									#116
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I won't be online in two hours so I will say that I agree that Sidon is gone. Pulling back and letting them kill themselves against Sidon with a spearman and walls is a good idea. No need to let our units go to waste defending a doomed city.
I'm not sure we should attack the Horde in Sidon because then we will lose lots of units.
How about abandoning the city and them attacking the Horde on flat ground?

	15-06-2005 19:46									#117
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Ok, we have 2 votes for leaving Sidon lightly defended so I will concur with you both.

I am still inclined towards risking an Immortal attack on the Euphorican stack to generate our GA. The extra production immediately could make all the difference to us at this time.

I will now await a response from Paddy.

	15-06-2005 19:49									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Masuro I won't be online in two hours so I will say that I agree that Sidon is gone. Pulling back and letting them kill themselves against Sidon with a spearman and walls is a good idea. No need to let our units go to waste defending a doomed city. I'm not sure we should attack the Horde in Sidon because then we will lose lots of units. How about abandoning the city and them attacking the Horde on flat ground?

if they attack with horses, we'll not have walls. However a fortified spear has a good chance of blooding them. If we rush, they'll destory sidon when they take it. Hence they have gained nothing. However, they will have moved their stack onto open ground in range of our immortals

	15-06-2005 20:49									#119
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Paddy claims that the Vampires are also heading our way with an army. He could be just bluffing.

	16-06-2005 02:47									#120
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doesnt matter either way, doesnt affect our actions much.