21-05-2005 02:01									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor However, in terms of sheer power, wealth and prestige, I think the Mali are far above the Ethiopians.

Your explanation suits me well enough.


To achieve geographical balance Mali would fit better too.

	21-05-2005 04:05									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Myrddin Did they think that an Arab civilisation with Jewish religion might just be pushing the boundaries too far?

There is such a thing as Arab Jews, just as there are Arab Christians. It just appens that Arab Muslims are (by far ) the majority.

Anyway, if any civ got 'axed', I would (reluctantly) pick the Aztecs. I hope the reports of just 18 civs are wrong though.

As far as Ethiopia vs. Mali, I personally like the fact that they chose Mali. That being said, I think it's a toss up as far as which one deserves to be in the game more.

	21-05-2005 04:09									#63
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Did I read somewherein this thread that, having some technology enables you to build The Parthenon?

How can this be if the Greeks are not included?

	21-05-2005 04:29									#64
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quote: Originally posted by axi Did I read somewherein this thread that, having some technology enables you to build The Parthenon? How can this be if the Greeks are not included?

You know, people use that line of reasoning quite a lot ('Israel must be in because Judaism is', etc) -- but WHY? I mean, it's not like, if the Parthenon is a Wonder, the Greeks are the only ones who can build it... In fact, most of the time they probably won't. How many games of Civ haven't there been played in the past 15 years where the English built the Great Wall or the Zulu built the Manhatan Program? Isn't that what civ is all about, alternative history?

Copernicus' Observatory has been in every Civ game to date, yet where are the Polish as a civ? Magellan with his Voyage was Portuguese, yet I don't see them in the game. There's the Michelangelo/Sistine Chapel but no Italians. Women's Suffrage was first granted in New Zealand, yet not a single civ from that region has ever featured in Civ...


I don't know whether or not the Greeks are in Civ4 -- I sure hope they are -- but that line of reasoning makes no sense...

	21-05-2005 04:41									#65
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Ok, I always thought the civ "Great Wall" was not Hadrians wall but the chinese great wall......

may be me..

	21-05-2005 04:52									#66
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy Ok, I always thought the civ "Great Wall" was not Hadrians wall but the chinese great wall...... may be me..

That's exactly my point: it's a Chinese wonder but often it was not the Chinese civ which built it but someone else, like the English...


BTW, I updated the new version of the thread to show my progress. Probably one or two more days before I'm done, depending on how much time I'll have this weekend...

	21-05-2005 05:03									#67
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Ah, I thought you meant it more like: "Hadrians wall isn't build by the english in every game! so the parthenon doesn't need Greece to be build"

both versions of the story appear to be valid

	21-05-2005 08:19									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Locutus Magellan with his Voyage was Portuguese, yet I don't see them in the game.

Have you not played Civ 3 Conquests?

Anyway, I agree with your point. Just because a civilization/nation isn't in the game, it doesn't mean their wonders can't be.

	21-05-2005 20:58									#69
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Great work Locutus!

DeepO

	21-05-2005 23:19									#70
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Hmmm, I can't imagine the Greeks or Babylonians being in. They are as quintessential to civ as the English, Germans, Russians, Romans, etc. So my hunch is that some other civ got dropped, if indeed there are only 18. Perhaps the Arabs or Incas.

	22-05-2005 00:37									#71
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If the greeks aren't in, then what is the early defensive melee unit of the game, if not the phalanx?

Will there be just spearmen?

	22-05-2005 01:27									#72
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quote: Originally posted by axi If the greeks aren't in, then what is the early defensive melee unit of the game, if not the phalanx? Will there be just spearmen?

The phalanx wasn't in Civ3. The universal unit was the spearmen and the Greeks got the unique unit of hoplite over the spearmen.

	22-05-2005 23:45									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Hmmm, I can't imagine the Greeks or Babylonians being in. They are as quintessential to civ as the English, Germans, Russians, Romans, etc. So my hunch is that some other civ got dropped, if indeed there are only 18. Perhaps the Arabs or Incas.

I believe neither two should be dropped. First, the Arabs extend along a big area and they developed a 'religion', concept that cIV plans to address. Second, if you are going to include one civilization that represent the original american people, the Inca were by far the most advanced, they were a local empire that took a big chunk of South America, with a bigger chance of become a local modern power, if they weren't conquered by sheer luck and disease. They were the most powerfull of the ancient americas.

To be fair, three civilizations from the Americas should be included: The Iroquis (or something similar) to represent the North America natives. The Aztecs to represent Central America. And The Incas, to represent South America.

Regarding health, I wonder if first contact between civilizations will also mean disease transmission, ala what happened with the death of million of aboriginal people shortly after the first eupeans arrival.

Greetings

Alex

	23-05-2005 03:32									#74
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy I already smelled expansion packs when cIV was announced!

Well Cyber, with the announced tools and easy way to mod the game, I should smell indeed "players' modding in a month" for every civilization that already have enough raw graphics and info available from previus Civ 3 Conquest.

We already know unique unit, leader name e raw animation, city list, etc. for greeks, babylonian, zulu, korean...

Many brilliant modders already did great works in the past with few hints.

	23-05-2005 03:59									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Adm.Naismith Well Cyber, with the announced tools and easy way to mod the game, I should smell indeed "players' modding in a month" for every civilization that already have enough raw graphics and info available from previus Civ 3 Conquest.

A strong modding community never stopped EA from releasing all those Sims expansion packs.

	23-05-2005 09:43									#76
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With the new IGN Preview posted (following the Caudrill interview, not the interview in itself), I'm thinking this thread needs an update

	23-05-2005 10:24									#77
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It's gotten a bit lost in all the other discussion, but I *am* working on an update:

quote: Originally posted by Locutus In case anyone is wondering why I haven't updated yet, it's because I've begun to completely rewrite the opening posts. No new info has come out all day and we already got a lot, so I don't expect much more to be released during E3. But while the expo is still running, the E3 thread started by Sn00py gives a good overview of all the new info, so until I'm done please check that if you want to know what to know more. Hopefully I will be done processing all that info and rewriting this thread in a few days time. You can get sort of a 'sneak-peak' of what's I'm trying to do here: lots of tables, lots of piccies...

'Unfortunately' one of the local football teams won the First Division championship this weekend, so I have been a bit preocuppied in the last few days

I hope to have the new version up in a few days.

	23-05-2005 21:38									#78
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Just in case this hasn't been posted here yet, the following link contains a video of a Demo Sorenson did at E3.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy...oniv/media.html

	23-05-2005 22:24									#79
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Yes, as you can read here, we do not only already know about that video, we also made a full transcript and a whole bunch of screencaps and got loads of new info from it as well (and in the new version of this thread I linked to above, I already included a good number of screencaps and new info from that video as well -- something which I'm continuing to expand upon as I'm working on it).

	23-05-2005 23:14									#80
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Chalk up Axeman on the unit list. At least, that's what it looks like from the video. The image on the left is the one straight from a Gamespot video, the one on the right is the same picture with a sharpen filter applied, for added sharpness.

Attachment: axeman.jpg
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	23-05-2005 23:26									#81
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And I suppose we already knew The Oracle would be in the game again.

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	23-05-2005 23:28									#82
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But how about the Taoist Temple?

Attachment: tao_temple.jpg
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	23-05-2005 23:28									#83
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quote: Originally posted by vovan Chalk up Axeman on the unit list. At least, that's what it looks like from the video. The image on the left is the one straight from a Gamespot video, the one on the right is the same picture with a sharpen filter applied, for added sharpness.

Already had that one. And I got a few other unit/building/wonder/tech/promotions/cities/leaders names from the video as well (but I haven't posted most of those here yet). But thanks for the heads-up

Edit: had the Parthenon and (Religionist) Temple as well, but keep 'm coming, you never know if I missed one...

	24-05-2005 00:11									#84
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Considering the massive cultural impact of the Greeks, I would consider it unwise of Firaxis not to include them while adding such civs as the Malinese.

I would think that out of the list, the Incans are the most likely to be dropped (though I think the Mayans should be the token Mesoamerican Civ, not the Aztecs).

And Daoism is an affirmed religion, I read it earlier today.

Christianity
Islam
Judaism
Buddhism
Daoism
Hinduism
Zoroastrianism? (Not sure)

	24-05-2005 00:28									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander01 Zoroastrianism? (Not sure)

Most likely either Confucianism or Shintoism, as we found out in the E3 thread.

	24-05-2005 04:26									#86
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IGN.com has a concept art image of a Greek hoplite/phalanx unit. Maybe they'll just have a phalanx, like in Civ2, but I think that might be evidence of a Greek civ.

Just a thought.

	24-05-2005 04:50									#87
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That's actually a regular Spearman, it has featured in quite a few screenshots already and its name has been seen onscreen.

	24-05-2005 15:19									#88
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Good work, Locutus!

quote: City flipping from Civ3 has been removed from the game entirely.

Interesting decision. I know some people will be pleased - like the bloke whose name rhymed with 'Oracle'.

	24-05-2005 19:50									#89
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so wait. have they finally converted to a spherical map?

	24-05-2005 19:57									#90
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quote: Originally posted by self biased so wait. have they finally converted to a spherical map?

Not really. I think it is just a trick they play with graphics, maybe adding polar caps that are not accessible to the player. The other views seem pretty rectangular, and the minimap definately is...