19-06-2005 04:15									#91
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	19-06-2005 17:15									#92
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100,000 people get killed in Iraq, they don't care

One poor woman is taken off life support...

	19-06-2005 19:49									#93
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Don't even have to go that far. Thousands of Americans are suffering and dying thanks to the lack of a national healthcare system. Yet they only want to get involved if it's a vegetable...

	19-06-2005 23:17									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Don't even have to go that far. Thousands of Americans are suffering and dying thanks to the lack of a national healthcare system. Yet they only want to get involved if it's a vegetable...

Boris, there are millions who are not dying worldwide because the US has the best health care in the history of mankind. What worries me, who does support insurance for all, is a socialist takeover of medicine.

What do your support, Boris. Insurance or nationalized health?

	19-06-2005 23:19									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Che, makes sense and perhaps is a clue as to what really happened. I think the record states also that he called at least Bobby Schindler before he called 911. Bobby arrived before the paramedics.

When my grandfather had a stroke, my grandmother called my mother before calling 911. She was confused and in shock and didn't know what to do. We each handle crises in our own way, assuming of course that your source is anything close to truthful, which given your past record on this subject, isn't likely.

	19-06-2005 23:50									#96
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara When my grandfather had a stroke, my grandmother called my mother before calling 911. She was confused and in shock and didn't know what to do. We each handle crises in our own way, assuming of course that your source is anything close to truthful, which given your past record on this subject, isn't likely.

Che, my past record? I just report what I have actually read or heard and provide links to the documents when I can.

	19-06-2005 23:55									#97
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It's pretty clear that the fake bone scans were doctored up to try to get the Husband removed as legal gaurdian. That's just the type of lies the religious right loves to deal in especially when they hype these cases into a media circus.

	20-06-2005 00:29									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin It's pretty clear that the fake bone scans were doctored up to try to get the Husband removed as legal gaurdian. That's just the type of lies the religious right loves to deal in especially when they hype these cases into a media circus.

Well, Oerdin, I would that any falsification of the record to smear the opposition would be investigated and explained, and prosecuted to the limits of the law if what was done was illegal. I would also hope that the authorities would investigate whoever was involved in the falsification, whereever the evidence would lead them.

Wouldn't you agree?

	20-06-2005 03:04									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Ned the US has the best health care in the history of mankind.

I hate to break this to you Ned but the US system is rated one of the worst in the Western world for access, affordability and cost.

Its the best system money can buy

	20-06-2005 03:42									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse I hate to break this to you Ned but the US system is rated one of the worst in the Western world for access, affordability and cost. Its the best system money can buy

The worst part is that Ned really belives what he claims. He had a bad tendency to forget that if you don't have any money in us, then you don't have any healthcare.

One of my sisters friends happend to have her appendix removed during a visit in us - it costed a fortune - an american visiting denmark would have been treated for free. Oh, and yes, we have this monstrous atrocity called "nationalized health".

	20-06-2005 06:22									#101
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Why of course, Horse and Cat. Quality does not count in your opinion. But it does in mine. When I described the US health care to be the best, I was decribing quality.

You obviously have a different definition.

	20-06-2005 07:11									#102
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Like I said, if you can't afford the health care, it's the worst in the world for you.

	20-06-2005 07:17									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Boris, there are millions who are not dying worldwide because the US has the best health care in the history of mankind.

Ned, how does the second part of your statement support the first?

	20-06-2005 07:23									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Why of course, Horse and Cat. Quality does not count in your opinion. But it does in mine. When I described the US health care to be the best, I was decribing quality. You obviously have a different definition.

Oh if you're talking quality - that's different - our system is definitely better than yours for the average Joe.

Unless of course you got money and lots of it - then you can get better care in the USA for most things.

Thinks about this - in Australia, open heart surgery by the best surgeon in Australia is free to any Australian.

I don't understand you Ned, doesn't it make you angry that other citizens get better medical care than you just because they are rich? Is your life worth less than theirs?

	20-06-2005 08:41									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse I don't understand you Ned, doesn't it make you angry that other citizens get better medical care than you just because they are rich? Is your life worth less than theirs?

Is that a trick question?

	20-06-2005 09:37									#106
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For Ned, probably.

	20-06-2005 14:04									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Why of course, Horse and Cat. Quality does not count in your opinion. But it does in mine. When I described the US health care to be the best, I was decribing quality. You obviously have a different definition.

You get funnier and funnier. Do you really belive that euorpean health care is low quality ?

	20-06-2005 14:26									#108
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The quality of the medical care in the US is the best in the world in terms of treatments only available there, new treatments being introduced every year, reknown of the doctors, etc.. Like other people have said you get what you pay for and not everyone can pay. About 75% of the people in the US are covered by some form of medical insurance and the 25% which aren't covered tend to be the working poor, blacks & hispanics, recent immigrants, or rural white poor.

Most of the middle and upper class people are comfortable and don't want to pay more so racial minorities, recent immigrants, and rural poor who live some where else can have health insurance. Is that greedy and self centered of them? Hell yeah. Is that racist of them? More then likely to at least to some extent. Is there position understandable? Yes, it is though I still wish it would change.

	20-06-2005 14:35									#109
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And what kind of treatments would that be ?

Because of us' size there may be some rare diseases that make you have enough patients for a doctor to specialize in it.

The same goes for new treatments, they also get introduced here every year - many of them are even invented here and exported to us.

	20-06-2005 16:23									#110
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USA has 2 million in jail, 500,000 are mentally ill.

They are in prisons because there are no mental hospitals, no safety net, no nothing. Of course they get involved in petty crime because they can't care for themselves. One guy in Ohio was in and out of jail for 16 years for stealing a purse.

I saw a story about a man who was executed in Texas who had already been lobotomised by a gunshot wound. He left the pecan pie from his last meal in his cell - so he could eat it after his execution

	20-06-2005 16:55									#111
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US medical treatment, once you are sick, is the best in the world if you have the money. However, our medical care, especially preventative, is very weak, especially because so many children have marginal to no health care. Ned was/is a patent attorney. He is more than likely one of those people who is relatively well-to-do, and has no problems with health insurance. He has NOT had to live with an individual who should be in prison (as in violent and abusive) because he is the source of the health insurance keeping your burned sister alive. Living that situation cures you very quickly of illusions as to the efficacy of the US system.

Our mental health system is nonexistant, and shameful. Law enforcement officers and jails are becoming the first line of people dealing with mental illness. However, the proper care for the mentally ill is not cheap and we have this mantra of "taxes are bad" while whining about wanting something for nothing. "You pay for what you get", and "You are your brother's keeper," are sadly out of vogue in US politics, and thought.

	20-06-2005 17:12									#112
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our system is certainly far from perfect and its fashionable to cut services now, which means growing hospital waiting lists, homeless mentally ill people and growing jail populations.

Many people are worried we're going down the US path.

	20-06-2005 17:22									#113
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the US citizens here do have a warped few of the rest of the world if they say that in quality they are the best...i mean what do you think we use wooden needles and burn bleeding wounds so close them...seriously get of your high horse (no pun towards alex horse) and come living in the real world...even if you have the BEST hospital in the world that does mean the quality of your health care is good...quality is rated on the average across the land...and call me dinky and put a feather up my arse if then the US 'wins'

	20-06-2005 17:47									#114
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People like Ned really believe it

	20-06-2005 19:35									#115
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We do have the best health care in the world, for those that can afford it. For the vast majority of ailments, however, it's unnecessarily expensive and could easily be cured in any 1st world health care system. It's the traumas and strange diseases and nasty cancers where the differences in the systems show themselves.

	20-06-2005 19:45									#116
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that is just bullshit....i have NEVER EVER IN MY WHOLE LIFE heard of a patient with a strange decease that had to fly to the US to get treated because in the EU they couldnt...

	20-06-2005 19:52									#117
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I have. There is a reason why so many insanely rich people come to the U.S. to have major procedures done. I was always like, what, don't they have heart specialists in Europe?

	20-06-2005 19:55									#118
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yes they do...and i personally know of a brain specialist that goes to the US and Canada to give seminars but that is besides the point...this still doesnt say the quality in the US is better (certainly not overall like i pointed out before) it just means that in the EU there is something like a waiting list...if you are rich or not...and i think that is

quote: why so many insanely rich people come to the U.S. to have major procedures done

because there only people with money will get in those very few GREAT hospitals...

	20-06-2005 19:56									#119
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I have. There is a reason why so many insanely rich people come to the U.S. to have major procedures done. I was always like, what, don't they have heart specialists in Europe?

Sure we have - that kind of treatment are done as routine (as much as heart surgery can be routine). I guess that they go for the additional luxury that you can't by in public hospitals.

	20-06-2005 20:00									#120
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara It's the traumas and strange diseases and nasty cancers where the differences in the systems show themselves.

OTOH, there are certain experimental therapies not available in the US, many of them have something to do with stem cells.