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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:37
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Expect an update to this, in the next 48 hours, but until then, this is getting bumped....
But in mean time, with City plans, it is looking vary good that we will have Spices in our cultural border, fairly soon.
My proposal is this:
Mr. Rush Job was originally schedualled to start Irrigating Plains, for the 2-2 city. But in the mean time, we will be waisting At Least 1 TPT to lux, while at 30% Lux (for some of our build schedual). This can be reduced to 20% (and get that one TPT and an additional TPT, so +2 TPT) with connecting up the spices.
So, I would like to change the worker assignments, for Mr. Rush Job AFTER Apo WF #6 is mined (needed for EW/Settler Pump), from Irrigating plains for 2-2 site and headed to the western Hills, connecting the spices on the way.
I would like some plans, detailing an EW and then worker, from the 2-2 site, with a possible Barracks build (how many regulars DO we want).
I would also like to see a detailed plan(s) to get a Barracks built, in Apo, while the EW/Settler pump is going, at various times (i.e. sooner, not so soon, later).
I'll update my sim Biq (and maybe even get it up to date, with current save), within the timeframe, listed above.
let's get cracking....
MoI E_T
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Krill
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On a cold wet rock, in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
Dec 2003
time: 05:37
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I can easily answer the question about putting a Barracks into Apolyton.
What we have to do is alter the cycle in Poly just slightly. When Poly has just finished a settler or worker, and is at Size 5, with 10 food in the box (due to the granary), We have to pop out another worker (Turn 1), to drop Poly to Size 4 with 15 food in the box. We then build a barracks at 10 spt for 4 turns (Turns 2 through 5), and build a worker on the the turn so that Poly does not grow to Size 7, and another worker after that and another after that or a settler.
The Turn Order is something like this:
Turn 1: Size 5, 10f, build worker
Turn 2: Worker built, size 4, 15f, build barracks
Turn 3: Size 5 10f 10 shields stored
Turn 4: Size 5 15f, 20 shields stored
Turn 5: Size 6 10f, 30 shields stored
Turn 6: Size 6, 15f, barracks complete, build Worker
Turn 7: Worker complete, Size 6 10f, build worker
Turn 8: Worker complete, Size 5 15f, build (either) worker or settler. Now contine with Apolytons' normal cycle from turn 2 onwards.
Only problem here is that while Apolyton is on settler duty, we can only fit Enks into the build queue. If we can get another city up to settler duty, most likely the wheat city, we can build workers in Apolyton, and chariots or archers or cats (Or Enks if we really need to) (Personally, I would prefer to build the chariots for upgrade to Horses. As this is the only upgrade that we can do in this era, it means we can spend less shields on horses, and build more swords with the shields saved, for any offensive the team wishes to undertake.)
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Krill
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On a cold wet rock, in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
Dec 2003
time: 05:37
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Something I would like some people to do, however, and this is quite an easy job.
ere is an unaltered picture of what land we have uncovered so far:
I would like peope to download the map, and mark it (place coloured circles on tiles) so that your prefered city sites are marked, and then upload the file to your upload space, and link to the picture here.
Last edited by Krill on 03-09-2005 at 16:58
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Krill
I can easily answer the question about putting a Barracks into Apolyton.
What we have to do is alter the cycle in Poly just slightly. When Poly has just finished a settler or worker, and is at Size 5, with 10 food in the box (due to the granary), We have to pop out another worker (Turn 1), to drop Poly to Size 4 with 15 food in the box. We then build a barracks at 10 spt for 4 turns (Turns 2 through 5), and build a worker on the the turn so that Poly does not grow to Size 7, and another worker after that and another after that or a settler.
The Turn Order is something like this:
Turn 1: Size 5, 10f, build worker
Turn 2: Worker built, size 4, 15f, build barracks
Turn 3: Size 5 10f 10 shields stored
Turn 4: Size 5 15f, 20 shields stored
Turn 5: Size 6 10f, 30 shields stored
Turn 6: Size 6, 15f, barracks complete, build Worker
Turn 7: Worker complete, Size 6 10f, build worker
Turn 8: Worker complete, Size 5 15f, build (either) worker or settler. Now contine with Apolytons' normal cycle from turn 2 onwards.
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Fantastic, thanks Krill.
If wwe do want the barracks in Poly, I suggest that we do this, after the 3rd settler is built. At the very latest, the right after the 4th.
quote:
Only problem here is that while Apolyton is on settler duty, we can only fit Enks into the build queue. If we can get another city up to settler duty, most likely the wheat city, we can build workers in Apolyton, and chariots or archers or cats (Or Enks if we really need to) (Personally, I would prefer to build the chariots for upgrade to Horses. As this is the only upgrade that we can do in this era, it means we can spend less shields on horses, and build more swords with the shields saved, for any offensive the team wishes to undertake.) |
Upgrades are expencive, in C3C, even with less to upgrade. but it would be worth it, for us.
I know that you posted (I think in one of the turn threads or the death to CBR thread) about the uslessness of Chariots in an offensive role. Granted, they are warriors on wheels (to put it bluntly), but they do have one advantage over said warrior, they have reach.
In a combined Archer/Sword/Chariot stack (keeping EW's out as researve, not in this equation), the chariots can be used to blunt a counterattack stack. This will weaken their counter attack, and with the archers to provide bombardment support and the swords helping with defense.
Lets say, we have a stack of 4 swords, 6 archers and 2 chariots (with EW's close behind and more units on the way, so researve and fall back/GoTH plan is covered). Said stack moves 1, within enemies borders and sees a counter attacking force, coming to meet us. We have the option to attack immediately, with the 2 chariots and take it. Granted, they will likely die, but they will blunt that stack. Then that stack attacks ours, but looses some of their attack, with bombardment from archers, will be further blunted. Then our swords come off with a few wounds, but still able to attack back, the next round, after the archers. this will give us enough flexibility, with keeping our GA from being triggered too soon, to help us win that fight/war.
but anyways, we will need that barracks, sooner rather than later.
[EDIT]
* E_T has had too many beers, without dinner to help....
major spellings corrected
[/edit]
E_T
Last edited by E_T on 24-08-2005 at 09:50
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sirleif
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Berlin
Jun 2005
time: 05:37
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place for city 2?
or city 3-4?
the reds, i prefer
Yellow line => need to irregate.
Green only a suggestion need to see more..
hmm damm ...need to see realy more only the city in the wheat should be save now. The ice tile is WITH river = +4 food with irregate wheat 5 food.
well only asking where we want to build
sirleif
 Attachment: test1.jpg
This has been downloaded 54 time(s).
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sirleif
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Berlin
Jun 2005
time: 05:37
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well, close as possible that they have as max 12 tiles for there own and depending on the terrain it can be XooX or XoooX or XoX.
Like i said: the wheat with lux place look at the moment as the only 1 we realy know to be save.
And the other's, well if possible the city should have +4 or +5 food.
And city better not more far away as XoooX - the culture should be closed with building city not with having culture buildings.
and i am only asking that we have it clearefied bevore we have the settler.
sirleif
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Krill
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On a cold wet rock, in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
Dec 2003
time: 05:37
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Turn 27: RJ roads, MDW move 99 mines, Settler built.
Turn 28: Settle city, builds Enk (it is not a assumption, it is implicit to the plan), WF 4 (Enk in Apolyton, fort in Apolyton, build settler)
Turn 29: RJ frozen road complete,
Turn 30: RJ mine
Turn 31: Settler built, IW researched.
ET, the reason we moved the worker 999 is that we have to get that tile roaded for IW to be researched turn 31, and we have to use that tile in Apolyton to get the shields for the settler.
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sirleif
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Berlin
Jun 2005
time: 05:37
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ops forget it,I didn't saw where we want to build..next time i read first everything bevore i post something
Last edited by sirleif on 13-09-2005 at 03:20
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:37
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Some discussion, in Chat, as to our lack of workers, while we are "spamming out" settlers. Also, it will take a little while before we get the New city setup to crank out workers (getting Granary built).
Krill was looking at this Tenitive Queue for Poly:
quote:
[14:37] [Krill> But (Settler)>Enk6>Settler>Worker3>Barracks>Worker4>Worker5
[14:37] [Krill> was the one that I was considering.
[14:37] [Krill> I want to run it again,
[14:38] [Krill> and I think I may have add and Enk in right after the barrracks
[14:38] [Krill> and another worker to the end of the Queue
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But nye pointed out, that we are running low on workers, compaired to the number of cities that we have going up and what we have planned for those cities.
Also, we want to try to get SoZ somewhere and need to get the worker issue taken care of.
So, I was looking at thinga and I think I have a possible solution, atleast for now.
This is my current plan, for Apolyton, for the next several turns:
Note: Slider set for Breakeven in cashflow, unless stated differently. Lux % is only amount that is of concern at this time. I'll have more exact details in a day or 2.
Turn 31: We finish second settler. IW is finished, starting on Wheel. Poly at size 4 and starts on Worker #3. WF to 4-5-11-17. Slider set to give us 5 Gold buffer (agreed with Consuls) for the Wheel Research Effort. Lux at 10%
Turn 32: Poly grows and shrinks back to 4, with worker #3 built.
Start in Barracks (5 turns). WF to 2-4-5-6. Slider to Break even and 10% lux.
Note: Worker #3 goes right for the Iron
Turn 33: Barracks (4 turns).
Turn 34: Grows to size 5, Barracks in 3, WF to 2-4-5-6-10 and slider at 20% lux.
Turn 35: Barracks in 2.
Turn 36: Grows to size 6, Barracks in 1. WF to 4-5-6-10-11 and slider 30% lux.
Turn 37: Barracks built, start on Worker #4.
Turn 38: Poly grows and shrinks back to 6, with worker #4 built. Start on Worker #5. Same WF and slider 30% lux
Turn 39: Worker #5 built, Poly now size 5. WF to 2-4-5-6-10. Slider at 20% Lux. Start on Enk #6.
Turn 40: Enk #6 built, start on Enk #7. Poly now size 6, WF to 2-4-5-6-10-11 and Slider at 30% Lux.
Note: By this time, we will have most of the south east explored. So, we will have sites for possible SoZ build picked out and will be ready to also get Horses set up.
Turn 41: ??Approximate time of Wheel?? (still looking at this, but will be before turn 43). Enk #7 built, start on Worker #6. Same WF & Lux slider.
Turn 42: ??Approximate time of Wheel?? (still looking at this, but will be before turn 43). Poly Grows & shrinks to size 6 with Worker #6 built, start on Worker #7 . Same WF & Lux slider.
Turn 43: Defiantely will have Wheel by this time. Poly now size 5, with Worker #7 built. Start on Settler #3 (3 turns). WF to 2-4-5-6-10 and slider to 20% Lux And Tax set to get 10 gold buffer (as agreed to with Consuls)
Turn 44: Poly at size 6, settler building (2 turns). WF to 2-4-5-6-10-11 and 30% Lux and breakeven.
Turn 45: Settler building (1 turn).
Turn 46: Poly Grows & Shrinks to size 5, Settler #3 built. Start of Normal - 4 turn Enk War/Settler Pump. Lux to 20% at size 5 and 30% at size 6, Can be lowered one notch once Luxes are connected.
The Granary, for the Worker Pump, in city#2 will be close to. if not just completed by this time, while still needed to build it's first worker.
With these workers first, we have 41 worker turns in advance of the first worker out of the Worker Pump. We also can send workers out towards the city sites that we plan to set up and speed them to their spots.
Krill plans to mine a lot of tiles around the 2-2 site, so that we can get 10 SPT from it, for Mil Unit Production. 6 Mines/Roads is 54 worker turns. Plus adding workers to it to get it's pop up faster.
Plus, we need to get our Iron & Horses Roaded. They might be next door and they might be very far away. Shoot, we might even need to build a colony, if it's in the far turndra north. We will know that in 2 turns from this post (after turn 29 is played).
And then, we still want to work on a city that will be building SoZ or Pyramids(if we lose the SoZ race, but not likely, IMO).
But this will allow us to get ahead of the game, worker wise. Granted, it;s alot of workers, but we will shortly have a lot of cities that will need workers to get them set up.
We did the worker first, at the start, for a reason, we should do the same at this point, too.
E_T
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:37
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While looking at my plan, in simulation, I realized that we might want to change tasking for Mr. Rush Job. after he is frozen from Roading.
I'll look at both cases and present them soon (before turn 30 is played), but at first glance, it gets things set up for the 8-9 city miuch faster. Let me work on the original plan first and I'll see what I can look at further.
But it entails this:
MRJ moves and roads Game (different from Krill's plan).
MDW moves and Roads Wheat (same as Krill's plan)
MRJ & MDW are now frozen same turn.
Both move, one to 8-9 WF #8, other to 8-9 WF #6 (poly WF #1) and road.
Then both Mine #6 (3 turns) and then Both Irrigate #1 (2 turns- will coinside with City Growing to size 4) and then both Mine #8 (3 turns).
Them each moves to WF #2 and #3 Repectfully, Roading (3+1 turns each), then both mine the #4, #2 & #3 tiles together.
After that, we will see. But it looks like it would get the Granary built about the same time, while getting the tiles set up faster for the worker Pump. Pluss it would give Poly one more 2-1-2 tile to use while freeing up Poly's WF #6 tile for City 8-8 to use.
It's an Idea, but it does work with the plan I'm looking at.
E_T
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Poly-Akryll
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Braunschweig, NDS
May 2005
time: 05:37
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If we build barracks that early we will fall behind with our cities again, could we build a settler and an enkidu before?
Because the sooner we build our cities the sooner they are producing...so we should have at least 4 cities before building barracks in apo
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:37
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Part of it is the size that Poly is when the build is started.
Krill and I are using a pop desination, for Poly, as it;s a 2 turn growth city.
4 or 4.0 would be size 4 , just after growth (foodbox empty, excluding Granary amount).
4.5 would be size 4 with 1/2 food box filled
5 or 5.0, size 5 after growth
5.5, size 5 with 1/2 food box filled.
6.0, size 6 with foodbox empty
6.5, size 6 with 1/2 foodbox filled.
When Poly is at 4.0, it's max SPT is 8, but at 4.5, it;s Max is 8 + 2 for Growth, so 10SPT for that turn.
So, any 10 shield, 1 turn thing that we want (worker or EW), would have to atleast start building on the 4.5 point of Growth.
Also, starting a 40 shield build, like Barracks, is perfect when started at the 4.0 point.
Just to let you know, when Poly finishs this next settler, it will be at the 4.5 point.
E_T
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RegentMan
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I'm not a fan of the early barracks. The maintainance cost and lack of military units right afterwards are what bothers me. Why not more settlers to grab CBR land?
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Poly-Akryll
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Braunschweig, NDS
May 2005
time: 05:37
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we should have our first ring around our capital before building barracks...cities in the second ring will not produce that much and it is therefore no big loss if they are founded some turns later as it will be with a city in the first ring.
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23-07-2005 06:32
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