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Wiglaf is offline Wiglaf
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Dec 2000
time: 23:37
Angry  Old Post 29-07-2005 09:00 Visit Wiglaf's homepage!
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Does Poll Show Islam Not Religion of Peace? Increase Your PM Length

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai.../ixnewstop.html

quote:
The vast majority of British Muslims condemn the London bombings but a substantial minority are clearly alienated from modern British society and some are prepared to justify terrorist acts.
....
six per cent insist that the bombings were, on the contrary, fully justified.

Six per cent may seem a small proportion but in absolute numbers it amounts to about 100,000 individuals who, if not prepared to carry out terrorist acts, are ready to support those who do.

Moreover, the proportion of YouGov's respondents who, while not condoning the London attacks, have some sympathy with the feelings and motives of those who carried them out is considerably larger - 24 per cent.

A substantial majority, 56 per cent, say that, whether or not they sympathise with the bombers, they can at least understand why some people might want to behave in this way.

YouGov also asked whether or not its Muslim respondents agreed or disagreed with Tony Blair's description of the ideas and ideology of the London bombers as "perverted and poisonous".

Again, while a large majority, 58 per cent, agree with him, a substantial minority, 26 per cent, are reluctant to be so dismissive.



With this many British muslims clearly on the side of terrorism (100,000 by any estimation) , I really just have a simple question - how can these numbers possibly be justified, if Islam is truly a religion of peace?

We are not talking about birth control, or other issues that Christians may disagree on. We are talking about unmitigated mass murder.

Bill3000 is offline Bill3000
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  Old Post 29-07-2005 09:06 Visit Bill3000's homepage!
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Bigotry is cool.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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  Old Post 29-07-2005 09:07
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85% of Americans believe in a deity.

Bill3000 is offline Bill3000
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  Old Post 29-07-2005 09:08 Visit Bill3000's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
85% of Americans believe in a deity.


That low? IIRC, 46% of Americans believe in 6-day creationism.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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  Old Post 29-07-2005 09:13
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According to wikipedia, 15% of Americans are "No Religion, Atheist or Agnostic". I'm too lazy to do more research.

Bill3000 is offline Bill3000
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  Old Post 29-07-2005 09:15 Visit Bill3000's homepage!
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What about Europe?

Wiglaf is offline Wiglaf
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  Old Post 29-07-2005 09:19 Visit Wiglaf's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
85% of Americans believe in a deity.


Next time you religion-bash, think to yourself : Have I invented democracy? Purged the world of barbarians? Created a linguistic foundation for the rest of time? Finished high school?!

Wiglaf is offline Wiglaf
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  Old Post 29-07-2005 09:20 Visit Wiglaf's homepage!
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Take a poll of Christians pre-Crusade and you'd get poll numbers like the ones above.

Reformations

Bill3000 is offline Bill3000
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  Old Post 29-07-2005 09:23 Visit Bill3000's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Wiglaf
Take a poll of Christians pre-Crusade and you'd get poll numbers like the ones above.

Reformations


The Crusades were a reformation?

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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  Old Post 29-07-2005 09:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Wiglaf
Next time you religion-bash, think to yourself : Have I invented democracy? Purged the world of barbarians? Created a linguistic foundation for the rest of time? Finished high school?!


Democracy was a religious invention? The Romance and Germanic languages were created by Jesus? The genocide of the New World was a good thing?

Wiglaf is offline Wiglaf
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  Old Post 29-07-2005 09:26 Visit Wiglaf's homepage!
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quote:
The Crusades were a reformation?


The protestant reformation ensured Christians do not act like barbarians anymore, as they did in the 13th century. Prior to the 1500s reformation the church, it could be argued, was flawed in large part beause the violence was Church-sanctioned. (whether the crusades were morally legitimate is its own debate, but most would say no)

This is similar to the terrorism we see today (except terrorism is worse) that many Islamist clerics sanction. Therefore, they need a similar reformation, especially in light of these polls.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:37
  Old Post 29-07-2005 09:28
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Wiglaf missed something important:

quote:

The vast majority of British Muslims condemn the London bombings but a substantial minority are clearly alienated from modern British society and some are prepared to justify terrorist acts.


Emphasis my own.

Wiggy ignores the 94% to focus on the 6%.

Troll rated at < 0.1/10

Wiglaf is offline Wiglaf
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  Old Post 29-07-2005 09:29 Visit Wiglaf's homepage!
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Look at the 26% figure...

And again, 6% = 100,000 people. 100,000 people SUPPORTING terrorism .

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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  Old Post 29-07-2005 09:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Wiglaf
The protestant reformation ensured Christians do not act like barbarians anymore, as they did in the 13th century.


Oh really?

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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  Old Post 29-07-2005 09:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Wiglaf
And again, 6% = 100,000 people. 100,000 people SUPPORTING terrorism .


You don't understand the meaning of "proportion," Wiggy.

Besides, how the survey was conducted and how the questions were exactly worded have a significant impact on the outcome.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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  Old Post 29-07-2005 09:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Wiglaf missed something important:



Emphasis my own.

Wiggy ignores the 94% to focus on the 6%.

Troll rated at < 0.1/10


You realize that your response to him just brought up his rating.

Wiglaf is offline Wiglaf
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  Old Post 29-07-2005 09:37 Visit Wiglaf's homepage!
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quote:
Oh really?


Show me a church leader who condones that (I can show you many an Islamic cleric) or perhaps membership totals within a country. If they total above 100,000, you still have not shown anything because you are drawing exclusively from a nutcase audience, whereas this poll was scientific.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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  Old Post 29-07-2005 09:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Wiglaf
Show me a church leader who condones that


Perhaps this guy?

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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time: 13:37
  Old Post 29-07-2005 09:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
You realize that your response to him just brought up his rating.


I got a less than sign in there to cover that

MrFun is offline MrFun
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Nov 2000
time: 23:37
  Old Post 29-07-2005 09:40 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote:
Originally posted by Wiglaf


Next time you religion-bash, think to yourself : Have I invented democracy? Purged the world of barbarians? Created a linguistic foundation for the rest of time? Finished high school?!


So it's okay for you to bash the religion of Islam, but heaven forbid if someone bashes Christianity.

Bashing any legitimate religion is wrong, but you're just being a hypocrite in this case.

Wiglaf is offline Wiglaf
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  Old Post 29-07-2005 09:40 Visit Wiglaf's homepage!
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quote:
You don't understand the meaning of "proportion," Wiggy.

Besides, how the survey was conducted and how the questions were exactly worded have a significant impact on the outcome.


It's a scientific sample, they understand proportion. 6% is greater than a random sample of Christians who would condone MURDER!! Come on UR. And the wording of some of the questions is dubious, but not the first and the last, the two most important.

quote:
Perhaps this guy?


Huh?

quote:
Bashing any legitimate religion is wrong, but you're just being a hypocrite in this case.


I'm not bashing, or implying is anyone is stupid, I'm saying they need a reformation, and that many muslims may well be homicidal. (much greater proportion than Christians)

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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  Old Post 29-07-2005 09:40
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Dude, you bit. He gets at least 1/10.

xpost * 2

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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  Old Post 29-07-2005 09:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Wiglaf
Huh?


Yes, this guy.

Wiglaf is offline Wiglaf
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  Old Post 29-07-2005 09:42 Visit Wiglaf's homepage!
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So a scientific poll of Christians today would show 6% support murder? Is that what you are maintaining??

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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  Old Post 29-07-2005 09:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Wiglaf
So a scientific poll of Christians today would show 6% support murder? Is that what you are maintaining??


Well, actually, the number is 74%.

Wiglaf is offline Wiglaf
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  Old Post 29-07-2005 09:49 Visit Wiglaf's homepage!
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So Bombing commuters = executing murderers. Classy. You should try being arrested, electrocuted, and tried for something you actually did. Then perhaps the difference between policies will be clear.

Fact remains that even 6% of atheists would not condone mass murder. This poll should terrify you for god's sake.

MrFun is offline MrFun
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  Old Post 29-07-2005 09:50 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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I'm terrified of some of the customers I might have to deal with tomorrow at Super Target.

OzzyKP is offline OzzyKP
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  Old Post 29-07-2005 09:51 Visit OzzyKP's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Wiglaf


Next time you religion-bash, think to yourself : Have I invented democracy? Purged the world of barbarians? Created a linguistic foundation for the rest of time? Finished high school?!


Ageist cheap shot

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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  Old Post 29-07-2005 09:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Wiglaf
So Bombing commuters = executing murderers.


You forgot about executing commuters.

MrFun is offline MrFun
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  Old Post 29-07-2005 09:52 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by OzzyKP


Ageist cheap shot


the horror

 
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