13-09-2005 20:18									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Saras American notions of "poverty" disgust me. You guys have no clue what poverty is.

What's funny is that so many people have no clue how bad it gets for the truely poor in this country. Poverty is both absolute and relative, but conservatives only want to look at relative poverty in America, not the people living in shacks without running water or electricity, living in crumbling apartment buildings filled with mold, roaches, lead paint, dodging drug dealers and criminals in the street, etc. Then there are those that have to live in their cars, even when they have a job, washing in bathroom sinks, washing a handful of clothes at a laundrymat, eating one or two meals a day, the families that double and triple up in tiny arpartments.

But our poor are invisibile. No one sees them, and if they are acidentally notied, there is a corus of conservatives rushing forward to egerly point out how it is the fault of the poor for being poor, that America is nothing but bountiless opportunity, and how each and every single one of us could be billionaries if we really put our minds to it. And you stupid foriegners drink it up like ambrosia.

You have no ****ing clue.

And then there are those who wish they had a car to live in.

	13-09-2005 20:32									#92
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All the stupid Lithuanian foriegners (sic) I know have come back with AmEx checks worth thousands after working for a couple of months in US, earned with hard work and at the same time living in a decent apartment, and partying like hell. If a foriegner can do that, why can't America's "poor"? Are you guys sure you're not taking some inevitable statistical outliers and multiplying them by the millions?

	13-09-2005 20:49									#93
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Honestly, many people are more willing to give certain foreigners a chance than they would to historically improvished groups of Americans. Also, various immigrants have social networks into which they can fit, which help them out with a place to live, a job, etc. Koreans are the most famous for this, but I know a lot of Eastern Europeans and South Asians do this as well. It's a lot easier to maintain this cohesiveness when you're an outsider in a somewhat hostile environment (we don't really like foreigners all that much, never have, no matter how much we need you).

Americans ourselves are far too individiualistic to setup such networks for our own internal communities. The rich have them, certain middle class people have them (school fraterinties, etc.). America's poor are effectively frozen out, though a handful do manage to escape poverty, not all of those who try and "deserve" to escape poverty do.

I really suggest you pick up Nickle and Dimed, which molly bloom suggested earlier.

	13-09-2005 20:54									#94
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Molly I will need you to explain what exactly you mean by white collar clerical. I have worked as a hotel house keeper when i was younger that was hard work, but what i was trying to say is that my job as an O.R nurse is just as exhausting. The only difference now is i get paid a bit more then the houskeeper. I am still just as exhausted when i get home after work as i was when i cleaned rooms.
As far as public transportation i dont use it now but i did in hawaii i had to ride the bus for 45 minutes to and from work and that was the most mind draining experience. The thing that got to me was the 80 people taling out loud to each other all getting louder and louder tryng to talk over the next guy.

	13-09-2005 21:01									#95
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If this is an indication of where things are headed, the size of the average American new house has reached the point where it is no longer possible to maintain without hired help. Not surprisingly many of these houses come with multiple guest bedrooms, sometimes located in a such a place as to be obviously a euphemism for servant's quarters.

We may be headed towards a modern version of a feudal society, with the aristocracy being the capital owning class.

	13-09-2005 21:04									#96
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White collar clerical is basically an office job. Stuff like being a receptionist or office manager. You could, I suppose, broaden that to be any white collar job from lawyer to low level paper pusher at a bank, depending on how you want to interpret "clerical". None of those would tend to be particularly physically demanding.

	13-09-2005 21:05									#97
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quote: All the stupid Lithuanian foriegners (sic) I know have come back with AmEx checks worth thousands after working for a couple of months in US, earned with hard work and at the same time living in a decent apartment, and partying like hell.

Prostitution

	13-09-2005 21:07									#98
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Honestly, many people are more willing to give certain foreigners a chance than they would to historically improvished groups of Americans. Also, various immigrants have social networks into which they can fit, which help them out with a place to live, a job, etc.

Lithuanians will make sure you DON'T find a place to live, and I'm not even going into helping jobs. We're a nation of a$sholes.

	13-09-2005 21:08									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Az Prostitution

You just insulted my sister in law. You're dead

	13-09-2005 21:16									#100
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I am not afraid of any of you assh*les (sic).

	13-09-2005 21:25									#101
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Very good, I'll sneak up on ya

	13-09-2005 21:52									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos I also think that millionares should be taken out of the figuring of the poverty line. If a stock broker rakes in another 25 mil this year and the everyone else stays the same, the poverty line goes up making previous middile class people now "poor" though their actual means have not changed.

Top rate earners (defined as x% or something similar) are not included in the relative measure of income, if its anything like the measuring of relative poverty here.

	13-09-2005 21:54									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Really not that many people want to be Usians.

Surely not!

	13-09-2005 21:56									#104
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara quote: Originally posted by Saras American notions of "poverty" disgust me. You guys have no clue what poverty is. What's funny is that so many people have no clue how bad it gets for the truely poor in this country. Poverty is both absolute and relative, but conservatives only want to look at relative poverty in America, not the people living in shacks without running water or electricity, living in crumbling apartment buildings filled with mold, roaches, lead paint, dodging drug dealers and criminals in the street, etc. Then there are those that have to live in their cars, even when they have a job, washing in bathroom sinks, washing a handful of clothes at a laundrymat, eating one or two meals a day, the families that double and triple up in tiny arpartments. But our poor are invisibile. No one sees them, and if they are acidentally notied, there is a corus of conservatives rushing forward to egerly point out how it is the fault of the poor for being poor, that America is nothing but bountiless opportunity, and how each and every single one of us could be billionaries if we really put our minds to it. And you stupid foriegners drink it up like ambrosia. You have no ****ing clue. And then there are those who wish they had a car to live in.

Commie laying it down.

	13-09-2005 22:01									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Smiley If this is an indication of where things are headed, the size of the average American new house has reached the point where it is no longer possible to maintain without hired help. Not surprisingly many of these houses come with multiple guest bedrooms, sometimes located in a such a place as to be obviously a euphemism for servant's quarters. We may be headed towards a modern version of a feudal society, with the aristocracy being the capital owning class.

The size of the average American house has stayed steady for several years after rising for many decades. People are now upgrading what's in their houses, making the Home Depot a good investment, etc. Of course, the household is becoming slightly smaller, meaning that each household member has more living room.

I fully expect us to be some of the heaviest buyers of Japan's domestic androids to be introduced in the coming decades.

	13-09-2005 22:02									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Commie laying it down.

You think these crocodile tear lamentations of american misery have any impact on a guy who's see Didziasalis? Spare me.

	13-09-2005 22:09									#107
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It seems to have bothered you enough that you've become irritated. So, yes.

Though it's clear you possess a nice mix of both arrogance and ignorance regarding what's really going on. Honestly, you have no idea about it, and that's not my opinion, that's just how it is.

Maybe some day you can take a visit down to Skid Row, if you are brave enough to. We can visit the cardboard box neighborhood and the junkies walking around looking for a fix.

	13-09-2005 22:23									#108
	ZOMG get a job you bums! Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

There are plenty of communities like this in every big city in the US. Skid Row in LA is absolutley unreal, it borders on the surreal. You talk about 3rd world conditions well this is it.

quote: Downtown Los Angeles' skid row is a spectacle that practically defies description. Police and paramedics can barely keep up with the nightly violence and medical emergencies, and the fire station is not just the busiest in Los Angeles but last year was the busiest in the entire nation, according to Fire Capt. Bill Wells. The attackers knew just where to go for a night of fun. While skid row is home to dangerous predators and cons, it's also home to thousands of sick and helpless people who make easy targets. "We had a murder down here in June in which a guy gets stabbed in the chest and dies four hours later in the hospital," said LAPD Capt. Andrew Smith of the Central Bureau. "The stabber lives in Azusa. He's a gang member who came here because he likes to hang out and party in this part of town because of the proliferation of drugs and prostitution. It's 24 hours a day, and they call it 'The Show.' " "The Show" is one unforgettable scene after another. "I've called [for medical care] hundreds of times, for someone I came across in my travels," Smith said. "You'll see someone with a leg so swollen the skin is bursting at the seams, the kidneys have shut down. Or you'll see someone who's got an infection with worms or maggots growing out of it. The mentally ill will sometimes wait until it gets so bad that someone flags us down. " 'Hey, my friend's got worms coming out of him.' " Firefighter Tim Toledo, 25, said skid row's Station 9 averages more than 60 runs a day, so there's barely time to catch your breath between calls. "[Wednesday] night we went out on a young lady who gave birth right on the sidewalk. It's unreal. We get there and the mother's holding the baby in her arms with the umbilical cord still attached, lying in a tent with dirty clothes," Toledo said. People by the dozens scoot around in wheelchairs, sometimes with colostomy bags that look like they haven't been changed in far too long, Toledo said. Wheelchairs don't fit inside the rescue vehicles, Toledo said, and Station 9 deals with so many of them, a private company was signed up to pick up and store the wheelchairs. When patients are released from the hospital, they call for their wheelchairs and are back in business on skid row until the next trip to the hospital. "You get stabbings, not a lot of shootings, but people swinging pipes or bats at each other. A lot of times it's sticks or sharp objects. The other day we were driving up 5th Street and right in front of us, a fight was in progress, one guy whaling on another guy with a pipe," Toledo said. "The guy taking the beating was pretty badly banged up, with a pretty good hole in his head. We bandaged him up, but the blood kept coming through the bandages. We couldn't even keep them on."

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/l...,1797050.column

	13-09-2005 22:32									#109
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I won't turn this thread into a pissing contest of "who has more miserable regions in their country". US would lose anyway.

	13-09-2005 22:34									#110
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Americans feeling so sorry for their poor

Sure there's poor in every country. But your categorizing fat people to poor is a joke. Outside America, poor people are not fat. That's the difference.

Of course tehre's homeless folks and who absolutely have no money.

Ohh but look at Bronx, and other ghettos it's tough **** yo. Sure it is. Youre still no special.

I said it. What are you going to do? Build Kuci another bathroom?

*fake tears*

Go eat more burgers you fat people, disgustoids.

che, and your definition is the worst. I'm sure multimillionaires thinks someone with 100k income yearly is poor.

Poor people don't accumulate bills because they have nothing and they use 0 services to accumulate those bills. They can't even afford to get the bills in the first place! Get off your communist butt and realize! BOM!

	13-09-2005 22:35									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Saras I won't turn this thread into a pissing contest of "who has more miserable regions in their country". US would lose anyway.

You're speaking with a forked-tongue.

Or, typing, that is.

Sorry that your false stereotype has been shown to be based on arrogance and ignorance though.

	13-09-2005 22:38									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka Americans feeling so sorry for their poor Sure there's poor in every country. But your categorizing fat people to poor is a joke. Outside America, poor people are not fat. That's the difference. Of course tehre's homeless folks and who absolutely have no money. Ohh but look at Bronx, and other ghettos it's tough **** yo. Sure it is. Youre still no special. I said it. What are you going to do? Build Kuci another bathroom? *fake tears* Go eat more burgers you fat people, disgustoids. che, and your definition is the worst. I'm sure multimillionaires thinks someone with 100k income yearly is poor. Poor people don't accumulate bills because they have nothing and they use 0 services to accumulate those bills. They can't even afford to get the bills in the first place! Get off your communist butt and realize! BOM!

You talk a big game but go into the Bronx and talk like that and see how long you last.

	13-09-2005 22:39									#113
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So your argument is what? Because I say your poor is poor but not all your poor are really that poor, but more like fat folks, your counter to that is Bronx is tough place, they'd bust a cap in my ass.

That's the same argument to any question 'I can kick your ass'..

consider the debate lost.

	13-09-2005 22:41									#114
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I'm pointing out your minimization of the conditions in the Bronx are based on nothing more than your own chest pounding, which don't mean **** once you set foot in the actual reality of the place and get your azz beat down.

	13-09-2005 22:42									#115
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furthermore, if you think Bronx is tough, or even in the level of toughness that can be found on this earth, in non-war zones, you are sadly mistaken. I'm not saying it's a walk in the park, I'm just saying.. it's average at best, and not even close to worst places.

	13-09-2005 22:43									#116
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OHHH so now we're talking about me? LIke I said, your argument is drawing dead.

You think Bronx is so very tough? Like I said, open your ey4es and learn the world. Bronx is tough but not even top 100.

	13-09-2005 22:46									#117
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The US could at least come into the 18th Century with regards the poor and build some workhouses.

	13-09-2005 22:47									#118
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YEAH YOU KNOW WHO THE REAL SOLDIERS ARE!!!111

	13-09-2005 22:48									#119
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Of course there are tough places in the rest of the world, duh. The whole point of this thread is talk about the American economy and living conditions SPECIFICALLY.

Just because there are other "tough places" doesn't mean the conditions, which are bad, and which you and Saras have shown complete ignorance of, don't matter, and the conditions for those people is a "walk in the park."

Maybe we'll compare d1ck length next, and you will lose.

	13-09-2005 22:49									#120
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Ted, are you serious man? You think the toughest OR worst OR poorest places can be found in the States? YOu gotta be kidding me, right?

Granted, for example we don't have places that tough in here. But I'm talking about my own country. There are so many places with far more.. everything of those three things that someone saying you got it all there too has to be joking or really really ignorant.