13-09-2005 22:51									#121
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When did I ever say that?

You're setting up a strawman.

	13-09-2005 22:51									#122
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I won't lose that comparison, never.

Saras, I believe pointed out that poor in other places don't compare to your people under poverty line. THAT doesn't mean somehow that the ones homeless and with absolutely no money are somehow richer than the people in same condition outside States.

I just think you got fired up because I called Bronx ***** sissy place, which it is compared to many other places. Walk in the park COMPARED. But not walk in the park and you can get killed there too so.. not good place.

Stop drawing dread here G

	13-09-2005 22:53									#123
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Toughness:
Bronx <<< Mogadishu

	13-09-2005 22:55									#124
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Guys start your own thread if you want to have length contests comparing "tough" areas.

Regarding penis length I have you all beat so there is not much point in even trying.

	13-09-2005 22:55									#125
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Don't diss Bronx AZ! YOu'll DIE THERE and your sorry little soft white ass will be EATEN ALIVE!

	13-09-2005 22:56									#126
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker There are plenty of communities like this in every big city in the US. Skid Row in LA is absolutley unreal, it borders on the surreal. You talk about 3rd world conditions well this is it. http://www.latimes.com/news/local/l...,1797050.column

With what that person said who do you folks think get to take care of the guys being brought in to the hospital. I have seen it first hand Homeless being brought in with maggots growing in their legs hell the maggots believe it or not are doing the person a favor keeping him a live by eating away the rotting tissue. I have seen children brought in in the same condition cause their parents have been laid off and are on the streets, its a serious issue cause you not only have the adults on the streets you have their children as well I dont see that anyone here is asking you cyinics for sympathy but rather to not disconcern the accounts that are growing into larger problems

	13-09-2005 22:56									#127
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Word up I went to Helsinki and got a speeding ticket yo but I told that cop I wasn't going to mail it in I was going to pay the fine by Internet!!!

Man he got clowned!!!

	13-09-2005 22:58									#128
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Ted, just pointing out that Saras is right. Doesn't mean the actualyl really really poor in the whole world poor standard in the US aren't poor, they have it just as bad as the rest. But as for the 'poor', that was, what I believe Saras was talking about, and he's right and you're wrong. And you wanted to prove the toughness of Bronx, and while it is tough, you're still wrong it being THE place.

So in short, Saras and I win. And my penis is 5 inch.. FROM THE GROUND!

	13-09-2005 23:00									#129
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski With what that person said who do you folks think get to take care of the guys being brought in to the hospital. I have seen it first hand Homeless being brought in with maggots growing in their legs hell the maggots believe it or not are doing the person a favor keeping him a live by eating away the rotting tissue. I have seen children brought in in the same condition cause their parents have been laid off and are on the streets, its a serious issue cause you not only have the adults on the streets you have their children as well I dont see that anyone here is asking you cyinics for sympathy but rather to not disconcern the accounts that are growing into larger problems

Yeah that's really sad when there are kids involved. That article talked about how this lady gave birth right on the sidewalk.

I recently read an article about maggots! Like you said apparently the maggots are actually a life saver because they eat infected tissue. Back in the day docs used maggots to treat wounds but then antibiotics became the choice to treat infection.

But then I hear the maggots are actually faster and more effective than antibiotics because they go right to the tissue and directly remove it.

	13-09-2005 23:02									#130
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quote: Don't diss Bronx AZ! YOu'll DIE THERE and your sorry little soft white ass will be EATEN ALIVE!

	13-09-2005 23:04									#131
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka Ted, just pointing out that Saras is right. Doesn't mean the actualyl really really poor in the whole world poor standard in the US aren't poor, they have it just as bad as the rest. But as for the 'poor', that was, what I believe Saras was talking about, and he's right and you're wrong. And you wanted to prove the toughness of Bronx, and while it is tough, you're still wrong it being THE place.

No, you just put opinions into my mouth that I never wrote, and then argued against them, that's not being honest.

1) I never claimed that the poor in the US were somehow "worse" than anyone else

2) I never claimed that the Bronx was THE place either, you just brought in that example out of nowhere.

So really what you just did was setting up a strawman and then argued against it.

	13-09-2005 23:06									#132
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quote: is both absolute and relative, but conservatives only want to look at relative poverty in America

It is the exact opposite. Conservatives are opposed to including whole groups of people as "impoverished" when they are completely capable of providing for most of their needs, while perhaps not at the level of comfort they want.

If you have a home, can feed your kids, and can aford basic health care you are not "poor." But by including millions of people who are just not middle class, you dilute all the money and programs to help out the poor, and the ones who really need it get a fraction that usually is not enough to accomplish anything meaningful. This is perhaps not the reason conservatives don't like aritficialy inflating the number of poor, but it sure as hell is an effect.

The left is all about including everyone they can below the poverty line, for political and ideological reasons. If they are not poor you can't crusade for them, and god forbid the left be seen as just another party controled by rich people, for rich people (which they are).

Just so we are clear Che, the relative poor number is far greater than the actually poor. Why would conservatives prefer a number that inflates the number of poor (artificially or not).

	13-09-2005 23:07									#133
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No those weren't your particular arguments but I used Bronx as an example and you took that and went with it so I had to defend against that one.

You are at least 50% to blame on this or more. I am less guilty here. If you admit this, we can go on and think of it as miscommunication. If you deny this, then you are 100% guilty now and forever.

	13-09-2005 23:08									#134
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Comparing poor to poor is a waste of time. I dont care where they are located in the world, they are still poor and living in sub human conditions. They are, once again I say this, not doing it by first choice. They have no choices at the time. And just for the record, i have seen many charites advertised on tv to help the kids out of this country but not once have i seen one to deal with the kids within in our own borders. so to keep arguing who is in more dire straits is a moot point at this time.

	13-09-2005 23:12									#135
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski Comparing poor to poor is a waste of time. I dont care where they are located in the world, they are still poor and living in sub human conditions. They are, once again I say this, not doing it by first choice. They have no choices at the time. And just for the record, i have seen many charites advertised on tv to help the kids out of this country but not once have i seen one to deal with the kids within in our own borders. so to keep arguing who is in more dire straits is a moot point at this time.

Mrs T ownz

	13-09-2005 23:13									#136
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka No those weren't your particular arguments but I used Bronx as an example and you took that and went with it so I had to defend against that one. You are at least 50% to blame on this or more. I am less guilty here. If you admit this, we can go on and think of it as miscommunication. If you deny this, then you are 100% guilty now and forever.

Nah, and plus I just tripped and fell on my own length so there.

	13-09-2005 23:16									#137
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So, I trip all the time PLUS others trip too (to mine)!

Mrs TUbes, not sure. I know what you mean and I agree with that. But not ALL poor are poor because they didn't have the chance to make their lives better. Sure, after they burned all bridges and went their own way, became poor in the process and now they don't have any chances, hey .. that's the way it goes, but what I'm saying is, not everyone is poor because they never had the chance, or because, or even because they were so unfortunate at some point. MANY are like you describe, not all..

	13-09-2005 23:18									#138
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What I'm saying is, I bet most people who are in jail don't want to be there. I bet they want good things like any other person but they are there because they ****ed up. Period. Some are more innocent than others, but the premise is the ****ed up.

Some poor people screwed up too. Intentionally. Lost their money by some way, that was stupid. Not all idiots wants to be idiots, but they are. Nothing will change it and furthermore there's NO ONE to blame for it except themselves.

I make difference here. Most people are poor for other reasons and didn't have much chances.

	13-09-2005 23:22									#139
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On the other hand, sometimes the system is unbalanced and unfair towards certain behaviors.

For example, what the hell are certain drug users doing in jail? Why not throw in people that drink alcohol as a drug because they are doing the exact same thing? That's an example of the system discriminating against a select group.

Putting nonviolent drug users in jail is often a waste and it clears the room for violent offenders to go free because there isn't space for them.

	13-09-2005 23:23									#140
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Pekka i understand what your saying but i dont belive saras was arguing that same point. From what i gathered from him he was saying go to this euthopia country and then whine to me. I basicly am saying i dont care if ur in bum **** egypt if u have no choices and no food or shelter you are poor you shouldnt be raised on a higher level then the folks in the us cause of the country you live in. They are suffering the same way

	13-09-2005 23:26									#141
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word



The argument that the poor in this country aren't really suffering because there MIGHT BE worse conditions elsewhere is silly.

	13-09-2005 23:26									#142
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Ted, I'd agree with that. Emphasis on non-violent ones.

Mrs Tubes, yeah well I would agree with that as well.

	13-09-2005 23:28									#143
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Ted, RIGHT when we talk about poor. When we talk about 15k income, well that's not poor in most places, even when in there it is.

I think that was the whole point.

	13-09-2005 23:56									#144
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quote: Comparing poor to poor is a waste of time. I dont care where they are located in the world, they are still poor and living in sub human conditions.

This is not the point of Ted's OP, comparing poor to poor. It is the use of the poverty line to include more people as "poor" when the actual means of most people has not changes at all. It is a moving line that does not take the conditions of the actual people into account. Relatively, we define the poor as those who make a certain percentage of everyone else averaged. It doesn't matter what the actual circumstances of the people below that line are.

That is a poor way of defining the poor, and is counter productive to actually helping those who need it.

	14-09-2005 00:01									#145
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In your opinion.

	14-09-2005 00:02									#146
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quote: The argument that the poor in this country aren't really suffering because there MIGHT BE worse conditions elsewhere is silly.

No, what he was saying that a good portion of the poor are only considered that because of the retarded way we calculate it. As such, while our government might all you poor because of an arbitrary number they picked, many are not poor by any stretch of the definition.

Many are.

There is no definition of poor in any dictionary that has a percentage.

	14-09-2005 00:03									#147
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for real, up in da bronx the shits outta hand fo shizzle!

I won't give up on you unless you admit your guiltyness.

	14-09-2005 00:31									#148
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The goverment you folks have put in place by voting decided the poverty line. Saying 14000 is generous for a family of three. Have you tried to raise a family of three on 14000 a year its ****ing impossible. 14000 is just for rent for a year. you havent bought food yet nor have you bought gas to get back and forth to ur job oh and wait you havent given the kids clothes yet. The idea that 14000 is plenty to live on for 3 folks is insane. The whole idea is that poor folks are poor folks they suffer in the same manner. Regardless if they are in the bronx or in euthopia. Before i get attacked I can say i tried to to support 3 kids on 15000 a year when i was in school i tell you what it wasnt fun . I visisted many catholic charities for food and am not ashamed to admit that. My babies were fed and we survived. But i had an exit plan most folks dont

	14-09-2005 00:41									#149
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quote: Originally posted by Saras I won't turn this thread into a pissing contest of "who has more miserable regions in their country". US would lose anyway.

Maybe, maybe not. There are Indian reservations here that would qualify for 3rd world status if they were independent. Pine Ridge Reservation, for example, is one of the poorest places in the world. The great irony of this is, these were the only Indians ever to defeat the United States in a war. Eventually we took most of their land anyway.

	14-09-2005 00:52									#150
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The Federal poverty line is a ****ing joke. I can't imagine trying to raise three people on an income of $14K. Hell, I couldn't afford to live on $14K.

Ideally, people should only spend a certain amount of their income on rent, food, etc. Yeah, but rent and food aren't charnged to you by precentage, but in real terms. If you live, say, in NYC, I would challenge you to find an apartment in a safe neighborhood for $14k a year. The poor spend a much greater percentage of their income on food, etc.

Do poor people have things like tvs, etc. Yes, usually hand me downs from friends or relatives or they "fell of the back of a truck." Some people were better off before, then lost their jobs. I don't see why some people think the poor should sell off everything and live in absolute misery before being worthy of the term poor.