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Roland is offline Roland
Emperor
Auf'm Jahrmarkt :(
May 1999
time: 06:15
  Old Post 19-11-2001 17:54
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#151 Report this post to a moderator
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One big issue with the housing bubble is how the GSEs are hedged. If they seriously miscalculated risk (like LTCM, like Enron...), we're in for one big bust once

- interest rates rise again
- house prices deflate
- mortgage borrowers' income and balance sheet situation deteriorates further

This could turn out to be a mild bust, depressing consumption, or a bomb that makes the S&L debacle look like a fart in the pacific....

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:15
  Old Post 19-11-2001 20:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Roland
I'd guess Sten might be a bit busy. Last week was total madness in the bond market.

Could get very interesting now. I think that the US bubble has finally entered the terminal stage.


What do you mean, when you say bubble? If it refers to stock prices than I don't quite follow you. First of all because stock prices are not always inflated/deflated by fiscal policy. There is a strong element of market sentiment and just plain volatility. But if there is a bubble and it is collapsing, why would investors so quickly be "taken in" again?

Roland is offline Roland
Emperor
Auf'm Jahrmarkt :(
May 1999
time: 06:15
  Old Post 20-11-2001 13:21
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"What do you mean, when you say bubble?"

The econo-financial US bubble. Consisting mostly of:

- stock price inflation
- real estate inflation
- debt/fiat money excess
- savings/financing imbalance
- malinvestment
- dollar bubble

Most of the bubble is still intact.

"First of all because stock prices are not always inflated/deflated by fiscal policy."

Well, monetary policy and bullish propaganda are the US government tools here.

"But if there is a bubble and it is collapsing, why would investors so quickly be "taken in" again?"

In stocks ? It's called "bear market rally".

Colon is offline Colon
Emperor
Antwerp, Colon's Chocolate Canard Country
Jan 1970
time: 06:15
  Old Post 20-11-2001 21:04
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#154 Report this post to a moderator
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Don't forget about Enron and that rush into hedge funds lately.

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:15
  Old Post 20-11-2001 22:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Colon
Don't forget about Enron and that rush into hedge funds lately.


Huh?? What point are you making?

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:15
Question  Old Post 20-11-2001 22:28 Visit DanS's homepage!
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Does anybody have comparitive figures for the % of GDP that exports comprise: US, EU, Japan, China, and India? By my quick calculation, the number is about 10% for the US ($80B x 12 / $1T x 100%).

Thanks.

Last edited by DanS on 20-11-2001 at 22:50

Roland is offline Roland
Emperor
Auf'm Jahrmarkt :(
May 1999
time: 06:15
  Old Post 20-11-2001 23:11
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#157 Report this post to a moderator
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EU ~10-12 % (excluding intra-EU)

Japan, China and India are tricky, depending on the conversion you use.

Colon is offline Colon
Emperor
Antwerp, Colon's Chocolate Canard Country
Jan 1970
time: 06:15
  Old Post 21-11-2001 02:38
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#158 Report this post to a moderator
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GP, never mind.

So, what’s going on the bonds market anyway? It seems I indeed missed some stuff, US treasury notes yielded 2.3% last time I checked but that apparently changed. And how have corporate bonds been performing?

And where's pchang?

Sten Sture is offline Sten Sture
Emperor
SF, CA don't call it frisco... Striker!!
Mar 1999
time: 21:15
  Old Post 21-11-2001 04:27 Visit Sten Sture's homepage!
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#159 Report this post to a moderator
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I am actually out of town - at the farm in Allahbama.

Curious that you mention Enron colon... I got to spend a bit of time on that mess over the past few weeks. We had sold it a couple of times over the past year, but left a little on the table because cash was running so high in the portfolio; we ended up selling pretty quickly and getting out well above where it is now. Rule #7: if it is really confusing, don't buy it.

GSE hedges are a really complex thing because of their extreme size, but fairly generic individually. Effectively this is what happens: The GSEs act like a bank wholesaler when they make a mortgage loan. The bank makes an 80% loan to value loan then sells the loan to the GSE, the GSE then sells it in the open market. They buy it from the bank cheaper than they sell it in the market. Some loans they keep. To get the funds to loan out (or buy) they sell debt that theoretically matches the cash flows of the loan. Mortgage loans can pre-pay, so a lot of the GSE borrowing is done with call provisions in the bonds, so if interest rates go down and refi's come in to pay off the home loans, the GSEs can call their bonds in so they aren't left with an asset vs liability mismatch. The real risk that Roland refers to is if the 80% loan to value is insufficient to collateralize the loans and the payees become unable to pay. This happens all of the time, but if it happened simultaneously on a massive scale there would be problems. That would be a depression type scenario for the US economy with 20+% unemployment and massive corporate failures. Theoretically we would be having even bigger problems than a liquidity squeeze at the GSEs.

2yr Treasuries have backed up from their lows, but are still pretty expensive - if the next Fed move is a tightening in response to rapid growth in the domestic economy...

Corporate bonds have outperformed recently (last two weeks) - their spreads to Treasuries have a tendency to decline when things are more hopeful. Treasuries yields are up + corp yields are up less = corps outperform.

I have got to get back to the DSL line at home and the T1 at the office. This 28.8 is killin' me.

Saras is offline Saras
King
Vilnius, Lithuania
Apr 1999
time: 06:15
  Old Post 21-11-2001 12:19
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Yo Sten,

Saw ya in Nelsons directory of investment managers .

Btw all - Saras is becoming a dad end of July, 2002. Oh happy joy.

Last edited by Saras on 21-11-2001 at 12:24

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:15
Thumbs up  Old Post 21-11-2001 12:29 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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Congratulations Saras.

Make sure you send all those hot Barbie doll emigrant Lithuanians towards Southern Cali.

Roland is offline Roland
Emperor
Auf'm Jahrmarkt :(
May 1999
time: 06:15
  Old Post 21-11-2001 13:18
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Sten:

The collateral is one problem, but at least for a first stage of GSE problems, I'd be wondering about the maturity and currency issues, how they are hedged/insured, and the capitalisation of those on the other end of the trade.

Saras:

"Btw all - Saras is becoming a dad end of July, 2002. Oh happy joy"

You're becoming a dead end ? Is that somehow painful ?

Blah! CONGRATS!!!

Saras is offline Saras
King
Vilnius, Lithuania
Apr 1999
time: 06:15
  Old Post 21-11-2001 13:31
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#163 Report this post to a moderator
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Or "Saras' end is becoming dead"

Maybe I should start a thread - else I'll get the congrats from Sten, Colon, GP and DanS and that's about it

Roland is offline Roland
Emperor
Auf'm Jahrmarkt :(
May 1999
time: 06:15
  Old Post 21-11-2001 13:48
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Good point. Suggested title:

"Saras turns bullish on Lithuanian microeconomy"

Colon is offline Colon
Emperor
Antwerp, Colon's Chocolate Canard Country
Jan 1970
time: 06:15
  Old Post 21-11-2001 18:43
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#165 Report this post to a moderator
Increase Your PM Length

"Maybe I should start a thread - else I'll get the congrats from Sten, Colon, GP and DanS and that's about it"

Who says I want to give you congratulations in the first place?

Ok ok, congratulations on the organic growth performance of your household.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:15
  Old Post 21-11-2001 18:53 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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#166 Report this post to a moderator
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Ohhh yew guys!

Looks like Saras' merger was so successful it is even producing spinoffs!

Colon is offline Colon
Emperor
Antwerp, Colon's Chocolate Canard Country
Jan 1970
time: 06:15
  Old Post 21-11-2001 19:24
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#167 Report this post to a moderator
God I feel like a geek Put an end to popups!

But will the holding-household accept that it will have to let go chunks of the 100% stake someday? It would be the advisable thing to do in order to secure the daughter’s development though.

Last edited by Colon on 21-11-2001 at 19:32

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:15
  Old Post 21-11-2001 20:12
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Congrats, Saras!!!

Saras is offline Saras
King
Vilnius, Lithuania
Apr 1999
time: 06:15
  Old Post 21-11-2001 20:45
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#169 Report this post to a moderator
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Brevity is the soul of wit.

Colon is offline Colon
Emperor
Antwerp, Colon's Chocolate Canard Country
Jan 1970
time: 06:15
Wink  Old Post 21-11-2001 21:16
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#170 Report this post to a moderator
I beg to differ... Got spare money?

Brevity is the soul of spam.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:15
  Old Post 21-11-2001 21:44 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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#171 Report this post to a moderator
Full PM-box? Change here!

Fuel for you Eurocoms:

I had to look up just what the **** brevity meant.

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:15
  Old Post 21-11-2001 23:01
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#172 Report this post to a moderator
Inflate your Upload Space

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:15
Wink  Old Post 22-11-2001 03:06 Visit DanS's homepage!
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TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:15
  Old Post 22-11-2001 03:22
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#174 Report this post to a moderator
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Saras is offline Saras
King
Vilnius, Lithuania
Apr 1999
time: 06:15
  Old Post 22-11-2001 12:03
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#175 Report this post to a moderator
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Let's get all fueled up for the day -

Now Ted, whose quote that was?

Colon is offline Colon
Emperor
Antwerp, Colon's Chocolate Canard Country
Jan 1970
time: 06:15
  Old Post 29-11-2001 20:20
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#176 Report this post to a moderator
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Bummer, dismal.com switched to paid subscription.

I suppose that was to be expected though...

Roland is offline Roland
Emperor
Auf'm Jahrmarkt :(
May 1999
time: 06:15
  Old Post 29-11-2001 21:26
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#177 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Now you have to pay to read their cheerleading. Bloody permabulls.

Hey Sten, got any Enron bonds ?

Adam Smith is offline Adam Smith
King
Maryland, USA
Jan 1970
time: 00:15
  Old Post 29-11-2001 22:32
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#178 Report this post to a moderator
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Congrats to Saras

And one more response than you were expecting...

Saras is offline Saras
King
Vilnius, Lithuania
Apr 1999
time: 06:15
  Old Post 29-11-2001 22:41
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#179 Report this post to a moderator
Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Thanks - sorry for missing you out, AS - you weren't around much recently.

Colon is offline Colon
Emperor
Antwerp, Colon's Chocolate Canard Country
Jan 1970
time: 06:15
  Old Post 29-11-2001 22:57
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#180 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I’ve asked to MtG for a vacation so you won’t see me posting the next week or two.

 
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