09-10-2001 09:33									#1
	Fellow E. Europeans - let's show our gratitude to the west by posting "thanks" her Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

As an Eastern European, I would like to express my gratitude to the West in general and the US in particular for freeing us from the communist oppression. I am aware this required considerable sacrifices on your part and that we will never be able to fully pay you back this "moral debt" - all we can do is say "thank you"!

I hope other people from the former Communist Block will join me and show Western Europe and the US that we appreciate what they have done for us.

	09-10-2001 09:35									#2
	can't tell if this is sarcasm or not Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

uhhh. . okay. .

	09-10-2001 09:37									#3
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I'm fairly sure he's quite serious.

	09-10-2001 09:40									#4
	Fellow Viet Namese-let's show our gratitude to the west by posting "F*** You" here Put an end to popups!

Cambodians, Laotians, Malayans, Timorese, Nicaraguans, Guatemalans, Cubans, Grenadans, Arabs, Jews, Maoris and Zulus are welcome too.

	09-10-2001 09:40									#5
	This is not sarcasm! Got spare money?

I am dismayed by how many people on these boards support Communism and would like us to suffer its rule under the false impression that we would like to live under Communism. Hence, I thought it appropriate to show that we actually appreciate what the free world had done for us and are thankful for all the efforts and sacrifices West has made for our liberation. IMO this was very noble and selfless.

	09-10-2001 09:41									#6
	if so then. . Inflate your Upload Space

cool, i guess. not quite sure how to respond though. i didn't do anything.

i mean, i support you guys 100%, i'm completely opposed to communism and socialism in all it's many forms but. . well, heck, what did we really do? it was a coup in russia that did it. communism did itself in and all.

	09-10-2001 09:43									#7
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quote: IMO this was very noble and selfless

heh, "selfless" is a communist ideal. (read Ayn Rand if you want to know what i mean, i don't feel like explaining it right now )

but it's cool that you are saying it though. at least one of you has some sense. the rest of europe it seems, are all bleeding heart liberals (liberal in the american sense).

	09-10-2001 09:46									#8
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Communism is a nice theory, but can't be run by men in large societies.

Socialism can and has been used successfully...it's what America should be leaning towards, yet we still cling to this idea of a wide separation of classes. Capitalism has brought America to where it is, but it'll take Socialism to maintain it, IMHO.

Can't speak for Eastern Europe, never lived under a Communist regime myself

	09-10-2001 09:47									#9
	Re: if so then. . Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by connorkimbro cool, i guess. not quite sure how to respond though. i didn't do anything. i mean, i support you guys 100%, i'm completely opposed to communism and socialism in all it's many forms but. . well, heck, what did we really do? it was a coup in russia that did it. communism did itself in and all.

Sure, you did not overthrow Communism directly, but you sure helped undermine its rule by all possible means. Not least by giving us information about the true state that the "East" was in and the "West" was in, thus enabling us to make a comparison. Then you provided us with moral support when we finally got organised to overthrow Communism. You did many other positive things against Communism too.

	09-10-2001 09:48									#10
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Ayn Rand doesn't have much of any signifigance to say in the way of ethics, connor.

	09-10-2001 09:50									#11
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quote: Originally posted by orange Communism is a nice theory, but can't be run by men in large societies.

Communism is way to impractical indeed. And there is the period of the dictatorship of the proletariat to go through...

quote: Can't speak for Eastern Europe, never lived under a Communist regime myself

Lucky you, I hope nobody else has to either.

	09-10-2001 09:52									#12
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You're welcome.

	09-10-2001 09:58									#13
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quote: Originally posted by connorkimbro heh, "selfless" is a communist ideal. (read Ayn Rand if you want to know what i mean, i don't feel like explaining it right now )

Communism has tried to ursup and monopolise the concept of selflessness, but this exists in all economic/political systems. In fact some capitalists (including me) would argue that welfare should rely exclusively on charity ie. selflessness, rather than socialist coercive system of income redistribution through taxes.

Capitalism has voluntary selflessness. Under Communism selflessness is coerced and does not work.

	09-10-2001 10:02									#14
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quote: but it's cool that you are saying it though. at least one of you has some sense. the rest of europe it seems, are all bleeding heart liberals (liberal in the american sense).

yeah lets make George W Bush the KING of the world so he can drag us around and bombed everyone we don't like. Or better yet lets just go down on our knees and kiss the americans boots.

	09-10-2001 10:02									#15
	Re: Fellow Viet Namese-let's show our gratitude to the west by posting "F*** You" Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Cambodians, Laotians, Malayans, Timorese, Nicaraguans, Guatemalans, Cubans, Grenadans, Arabs, Jews, Maoris and Zulus are welcome too.

Maybe not then, but by now most of these peoples have realised the benefits of capitalism and would actually like to enjoy them too!

	09-10-2001 10:12									#16
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Oh Lord...

Lordy Lordy Lord.

Western interventions in the regions alluded to had precious little to do with ideology and a great deal to do with geopolitics. In some of the places named, >30% of the population died as a result of said interventions. But hey, what do I know; American support for the Khmer Rouge, despite its self-styled Communist basis and proven murderousness was for the greater good.

	09-10-2001 10:21									#17
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Oh Lord... Lordy Lordy Lord.

Sorry, I don't believe in God.

quote: Western interventions in the regions alluded to had precious little to do with ideology and a great deal to do with geopolitics.

Perhaps, but it does not mean the people in these countries now prefer Communism, does it?

quote: In some of the places named, >30% of the population died as a result of said interventions. But hey, what do I know; American support for the Khmer Rouge, despite its self-styled Communist basis and proven murderousness was for the greater good.

Khmer Rouge is one of your beloved Communist regimes that I do not support inn any way.

	09-10-2001 10:22									#18
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Dinodoc -

quote: Ayn Rand doesn't have much of any signifigance to say in the way of ethics, connor

You're wrong! "Objectivism"/freedom is the most ethical system there is... Name a system that is more ethical...

	09-10-2001 10:24									#19
	Roman Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

That's all right. You don't have to seriously respond if you don't feel capable of doing so..

	09-10-2001 10:27									#20
	Re: Roman Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse That's all right. You don't have to seriously respond if you don't feel capable of doing so..

??? ???

Please explain?

	09-10-2001 10:28									#21
	Back to the original topic Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

E. Europeans - here is a place to express your gratitude for what the West has done for us.

	09-10-2001 10:31									#22
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What should we be greatful for? For being sold out at Yalta? Or for the misery that has come with the sudden shift to capitalism

	09-10-2001 10:43									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Victor Galis What should we be greatful for? For being sold out at Yalta? Or for the misery that has come with the sudden shift to capitalism

The West could not really do much at Yalta. It had to give a sphere of influence to the Russians.

As for the economic misery from the sudden shift to capitalism, it was a neccessary adjustement process and things are now improving at a rapid pace. Moreover, even though our incomes are only somewhat greater than during Communism, they are growing much faster and we have far greater economic choice. We also have much more freedom and many people use it fully to whine about their predicament, totally disregarding their past, much worse, situation. Do not forget that if it weren't for the collapse of the represive Communist regimes, we couldn't even be here to talk about it.

	09-10-2001 11:24									#24
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Well, yes thanx for recognizing us after USSR fell.

Where were you during the fifty years?

I'll tell you where - in CIA and British intelligence planes, dropping leaflets promising to invade and liberate us, fueling the hopes of 40000+ young men in the forests and leading them to their certain deaths at the hands of NKVD.

No thanks for that. Otherwise, thanks for your timely support of Gorbys reforms that were the ultimate nail in the coffin of the USSR. There is a poem by a Lithuanian classic Maironis that says "You can't stop the river..." etc. Well, you can't, but thanks for helping us break the dam - saved me at least the best 5 years of my life.

	09-10-2001 11:32									#25
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I think that people should notice that those who are so gung ho about communism are those who enjoy the freedoms of a democracy. Those that actually lived under the system don't seem to care for it much.

I should say that communism was no doubt pretty damned good for those in power.

	09-10-2001 11:39									#26
	... Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Roman,
can you tell me to which university you are going to? (does it have something to do with Goerge Soros?)

I see a very clear pattern being formed here...

	09-10-2001 12:30									#27
	Put an end to popups!

Maybe you should dedicate them a "Thank you day", kinda like, Mother's day.
You can make pretty drawings and paper flowers and hand them out to your favorite western benefactor.
You can even make them a cake, with a big "THANK YOU MAMA WEST" written on it.

YUCK! I'll get sick....

	09-10-2001 12:35									#28
	Re: This is not sarcasm! Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Roman I am dismayed by how many people on these boards support Communism and would like us to suffer its rule under the false impression that we would like to live under Communism.

You should be thankful to communism. Your people lived for many years under a totalitarian dictatorship which just happened to run a command economy (and hence be called 'communist'). If they had been capitalist (but still at odds with the west) they would still be there. It was the inefficiencies of a command economy which lead to their downfall - not the west.

Capitalism is more evil than communism in my book - at least communism, in principle, is supposed to promote equality. That evil bastardisation of communism in the USSR and its satelites should not really be regarded as 'communism'. But pure, unleashed capitalism would provide even greater misery for the masses. Mixed economies, like we have in the west, are the way to go.

	09-10-2001 13:19									#29
	Some you guys amaze me... Enter the AD-FREE zone

Of course that purging of several million of your own people thing is no big deal.

Communism...real great...

	09-10-2001 13:20									#30
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You are welcome. I spent several years in the army trying to thwart the Soviet Union and communism in general, and my motivation was the many people I met who either suffered under the yoke of communism or were glad that they were part of a system of collective defense which protected them from it.