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Sikander
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Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Rogan Josh
You should be thankful to communism. Your people lived for many years under a totalitarian dictatorship which just happened to run a command economy (and hence be called 'communist'). If they had been capitalist (but still at odds with the west) they would still be there. It was the inefficiencies of a command economy which lead to their downfall - not the west.
Capitalism is more evil than communism in my book - at least communism, in principle, is supposed to promote equality. That evil bastardisation of communism in the USSR and its satelites should not really be regarded as 'communism'. But pure, unleashed capitalism would provide even greater misery for the masses. Mixed economies, like we have in the west, are the way to go. |
Yea, I bet he is really thankful that a hack named Marx created a bogus system of predicting history, which was used by ruthless psuedo-intellectuals to seize power in agrarian mostly illiterate states, who then proceeded to eliminate anyone who was perceived as a threat, and then run a static economy, or industrialize by hiring westerners to create factories where they could be paid a fraction of what the 'exploited and abused' workers in the west were being paid so that their masters could have tanks.
Tell me Rogan, where is the historical record of unbridled capitalism that can claim even a fraction of the misery caused by those who called themselves communists? Most people call the atrocity perpetuated upon Russia and it's sphere of influence communism, and most people call the economic system of the west capitalism. Since there has never been an example of 'good' communism AFAIK, the term should rightfully be applied to the millions of people who called themselves communists and the states which they created and ran into the ground.
If you want to imagine a great society that is all things to all people and give it a name, I suggest you call it Utopia like everyone else. The term communism is already taken, and buried in so much filth it will never recover.
As for capitalism, like communism it doesn't exist in a pure idyllic form. It instead exists as the motive factor in the most successful economies of the world, who have learned to harness it's powers and shield themselves from it's excesses. This is an evolutionary process which is made possible by the freedoms associated with the capitalism that too many assumed would only be available to those who started wealthy.
Victor,
"What should we be greatful for? For being sold out at Yalta? Or for the misery that has come with the sudden shift to capitalism?
Hey, maybe the CIA can find another Ceacescu (sp?) for you to enjoy, and you can take your lame ass back to Romania and we can all enjoy your absence from these discussion boards where I doubt you would be able to post anymore.
You ***** about the U.S. constantly, yet you live here and take the many freedoms and perks we offer. You don't even have the balls to defend the people who make your life here possible. If you can find a better place to live, then please go there. You are taking up the space that should be occupied by some of the millions of people who would trade places with you in a minute, and who know how to show some gratitude and how to defend the source of their good fortune. Go away.
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LaRusso
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appendix of Europe
May 2001
time: 06:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Sikander
Yea, I bet he is really thankful that a hack named Marx created a bogus system of predicting history, which was used by ruthless psuedo-intellectuals to seize power in agrarian mostly illiterate states, who then proceeded to eliminate anyone who was perceived as a threat, and then run a static economy, or industrialize by hiring westerners to create factories where they could be paid a fraction of what the 'exploited and abused' workers in the west were being paid so that their masters could have tanks.
Tell me Rogan, where is the historical record of unbridled capitalism that can claim even a fraction of the misery caused by those who called themselves communists? |
I guess communists exterminated Native Indians. Also, it was them who orchestrated genocide against Armenians. Nice religious people all over Europe decimated each other for centuries under 'capitalism'. Also, capitalism is the system of many small states you would rather put under the carpet. Wa-hey, South Africa was also capitalist during apartheid, and so was America during slavery and later segregation. To equate capitalism with civil liberties is wrong. It can exist without them.
quote:
As for capitalism, like communism it doesn't exist in a pure idyllic form. It instead exists as the motive factor in the most successful economies of the world, who have learned to harness it's powers and shield themselves from it's excesses. This is an evolutionary process which is made possible by the freedoms associated with the capitalism that too many assumed would only be available to those who started wealthy. |
please take some time to count the number of capitalist countries in which people live only slightly better than animals. enjoy!
quote:
You ***** about the U.S. constantly, yet you live here and take the many freedoms and perks we offer. You don't even have the balls to defend the people who make your life here possible. If you can find a better place to live, then please go there. You are taking up the space that should be occupied by some of the millions of people who would trade places with you in a minute, and who know how to show some gratitude and how to defend the source of their good fortune. Go away. |
likewise, why dont you stop saving us constantly from someone. mind your own business.
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Bereta_Eder
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quote:
Originally posted by Seeker
(sigh) I was just making fun of how you said that there is a Pole who posts without giving warning...
The idea that he should give some sort of warning struck me as amusing. |
It was supposed to be funny and make you laugh. After your responce I thought of something even more wicket to say but that would have been to offending... maybe...
So I took the middle boring road and answered differently ...
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Sikander
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Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:15
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quote:
Originally posted by LaRusso
I guess communists exterminated Native Indians. Also, it was them who orchestrated genocide against Armenians. Nice religious people all over Europe decimated each other for centuries under 'capitalism'. Also, capitalism is the system of many small states you would rather put under the carpet. Wa-hey, South Africa was also capitalist during apartheid, and so was America during slavery and later segregation. To equate capitalism with civil liberties is wrong. It can exist without them. |
Well it wasn't capitalists who exterminated the Indians that's for sure, unless you call subsistance farming capitalism. Read some U.S. history, you'll see that it was economically backward people (like my ancestors) who kept encroaching on the Indians (also my ancestors). Farmers, herders, hunters killed the Indians, or in some cases created the political will to have it done by the army in the end.
Were the Turks of 1918 capitalists? If so the term is meaningless. As for South Africa and the U.S. having less than stellar civil rights records historically, look at them today. While capitalism may not demand strong civil rights to function in internal markets initially, it will be subsumed by more efficient systems because of the greater profits to be made when everyone in the state's abilities are allowed to be realized, and in the savings in security costs that a repressive state must expend.
quote:
Originally posted by LaRusso
please take some time to count the number of capitalist countries in which people live only slightly better than animals. enjoy! |
Give me a few examples to get me started.
quote:
Originally posted by LaRusso
likewise, why dont you stop saving us constantly from someone. mind your own business. |
Oh, I'm done saving Yugoslavia which I never considered a part of the Soviet bloc in the first place. You would really like my foreign policy La Russo, especially in comparison to Bush Sr., Clinton and Bush Jr. I wanted the U.S. out of NATO 10 years ago. I wanted the savings from that invested in alternative energy research, the decommissioning of most of our carriers (and some of that money spent on the development of arsenal ships). I wanted the U.S. to improve relations with Russia as it was leaving NATO, and a general but not precipitous pull back from most of our numerous security commitments. I am a neo-isolationist.
Once the Soviet Union fell and IMO our commitment to the vast majority of our allies fulfilled I wanted to pull back and let the rest of the world get back to normal and start hating each other again. Being an overcommitted loudmouthed superpower is the surest way to decline. Hopefully it's not too late, but I fear that we are going down at least a bit before we rise again.
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OneFootInTheGrave
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Kuzelj
Nov 2000
time: 05:15
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 09-10-2001 15:38
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#55
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Re: Fellow E. Europeans - let's show our gratitude to the west by posting "thanks"
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Suffering from ads?
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quote:
Originally posted by Roman
As an Eastern European, I would like to express my gratitude to the West in general and the US in particular for freeing us from the communist oppression.  I am aware this required considerable sacrifices on your part and that we will never be able to fully pay you back this "moral debt" - all we can do is say "thank you"! 
I hope other people from the former Communist Block will join me and show Western Europe and the US that we appreciate what they have done for us.  |
I surely do appreciate it, thanks US and the west. Even though former Yugoslavia was probably the best communist country ever (and Croats live worse now than theyt did than, 5 years of war followed with 5 years of organised criminals on power) it still lived out of the foreigh debt (Tito exploiting the situation), you could not develop private business... and if you were not one of the communist cronies you could just about forget about living better. ie That was the only way to promote yourself in the society. Corruption flourished, sucking up the ass to the supreiors was the art of the day, and so on... (and that culture crept easily into democracy which makes a good shift much harder than it could be) Now we are at least free to develop as we see fit and after this government sets up a legal framework I can see the county coming out of this shite in which it is at the moment. (I just hope we continue to elect some decent ,honest if they exist, politicians to lead us out of this) Now at least we have this right to vote and choose! In 10 years we will hopefully see the difference. If the whole change happened in the 60's we would be living like western Europeans today, but well... the west might not be utopia, but it surely give everyone a chance to educate and progress in his life if he chooses to do so. Choice is surely a good thing.
And on another note thanks to the west for bombing Yugoslavia (or Serbia) and this should have been done earlier if you ask me (or at least some firm action taken before - not bombing, before 25000 killed in Croatia and 100 000 or more in Bosnia.) However there would be even less understanding than it is now for that action.
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