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OneFootInTheGrave
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Kuzelj
Nov 2000
time: 05:15
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as for the articles (the one about Tudjmans comments I'll save top my HDD, for furture reference).
And the other two, yes it is true, but as I said that he and his regime was criminal as well as the people who commited the crimes should go to court and the justice should be done.As i said present government is delivering our own generals and soldiers to the Hague, and some are being tried at home.
I think this is a first time too that a defending (taking back our territiry) army is being tried for the war crimes, which is certainly good and should became a practice everywhere. It would be good that there is at least some code of conduct in the war that should be followed and that killing of innocent civilians will be later exposed not tollerated and punished. (After WWII and Korea, Vietnam, did anyone put the winners on trial? no, but that should be the case in the future)
Btw this year all  yes all major judges have been replaced in Croatia that shows something about our prior system. The articles show as well that killing was not done on purely nationalistic basis, these guys killed Croats too, so basicly everyone who stood on their path. And here goes my claim that the former regime was criminal, you had Croats on positions being killed just to make way for the regimes will.
Fortunaley not many but but fortunatley too this regime is not in the place anymore and many of these people are in jail already. That is precisley the reason why democracy is good, a change without war. At least we got a chance, as well as Serbia, to chose better people to lead us out of this shite. And now we can see what was happening behind the 'closed' doors, as opposed to communism when you could not do either.
As for comparing Stalin and Hitler it is like comparing bad and worse. A nation of literate peole woudl be literate anyway if it was uder capitalist system, a nation full of composers, writhers, artists before the revolution, became a nation with hardly any after. A nation full of natural riches and potential bacame a nation where peole starve today. the russians got into space that is true, their GDP figures were certainly heavily inflated at the time, and one thing that did striuve ther was science, and especially military and space advances where they keept up with the west.
I could bet thet Hitler would do the same, Ie he was more advanced in rocket science than the allies at the end of the war. As for genocide, well ask those baltic nations and russian germans who supported the Red Army during the war, what they think about genocide among others. As well all the people who did not agree with the regime which If I am not wrong included many Jews too.
Overall Hitler might have been worse, if for nothin else than for going to an outhright war + plus plain genocide. But Stalin was not a much better alternative.
Last edited by OneFootInTheGrave on 09-10-2001 at 20:32
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Chris 62
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But I'm feeling MUCH better now
Jan 2001
time: 00:15
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Your welcome, Roman.
Glad to do it, always fun to stick it to the commies.
So tell me, you commie kids, do you just cut and paste the same stuff in your posts?
In a thread that had zero to do with your personal BS, we heard the same old stuff, some favs highlighted:
USA did this to (fill in the blank)
USA shouldn't have been in Balkans
USA wiped out helpless indians
USA intervenes where it doesn't belong (A real fav of scandanavians, think it was a Swede for this one)
USA DOESN'T intervene and did not intervene (from a member of the Baltic states)
USA supports dictators, scum, yadda,yadda,yadda
Karl Marx was misunderstood (A real laugh, since "Das Capital" is almost unreadable)
Soviets wern't "real" communists (Like any nation that claims to be communist is?!!?)
USA supported Khmer Rouge (A real silly one, considering they were communists fighting the US supported Sianouk)
CIA was busy taking over the world (Another big yucks one, considering what a rotten job they have done over the years  )
USA supported South Africa
There are probaly more, but these caught my eye, because they were from the same people as always, in the same threads.
Can any of the Commie kids tell us what it was like living under a communist regieme?
Just a question, feel free to answer any way you like, I'm just curious to see who has practical life experience under such a system that they advocate so strongly for.
Go easy on the economics, keep it simple, I don't know much about that stuff, so explain carefully, please.
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LaRusso
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appendix of Europe
May 2001
time: 06:15
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quote:
Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
As for comparing Stalin and Hitler it is like comparing bad and worse. A nation of literate peole woudl be literate anyway if it was uder capitalist system, a nation full of composers, writhers, artists before the revolution, became a nation with hardly any after. A nation full of natural riches and potential bacame a nation where peole starve today. the russians got into space that is true, their GDP figures were certainly heavily inflated at the time, and one thing that did striuve ther was science, and especially military and space advances where they keept up with the west.
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okay. russians were arguably a capitalist society before revolution. literacy was EXTREMELY low.
they starved under capitalism too.
can you name any modern russian writer? how about naming some that wrote DURING stalin era: bulgakov, fadeyev, solohov,
pasternak, simonov, ilyf & petrov etc. shostakovich also conducted and composed during stalin. russian culture did NOT die during stalin reign.
all that is left after hitler is 'lili marlen'. even that is a ww1 song.
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LaRusso
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appendix of Europe
May 2001
time: 06:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris 62
Your welcome, Roman.
Glad to do it, always fun to stick it to the commies.
So tell me, you commie kids, do you just cut and paste the same stuff in your posts?
In a thread that had zero to do with your personal BS, we heard the same old stuff, some favs highlighted:
USA did this to (fill in the blank)
USA shouldn't have been in Balkans
USA wiped out helpless indians
USA intervenes where it doesn't belong (A real fav of scandanavians, think it was a Swede for this one)
USA DOESN'T intervene and did not intervene (from a member of the Baltic states)
USA supports dictators, scum, yadda,yadda,yadda
Karl Marx was misunderstood (A real laugh, since "Das Capital" is almost unreadable)
Soviets wern't "real" communists (Like any nation that claims to be communist is?!!?)
USA supported Khmer Rouge (A real silly one, considering they were communists fighting the US supported Sianouk)
CIA was busy taking over the world (Another big yucks one, considering what a rotten job they have done over the years )
USA supported South Africa
There are probaly more, but these caught my eye, because they were from the same people as always, in the same threads.
Can any of the Commie kids tell us what it was like living under a communist regieme?
Just a question, feel free to answer any way you like, I'm just curious to see who has practical life experience under such a system that they advocate so strongly for.
Go easy on the economics, keep it simple, I don't know much about that stuff, so explain carefully, please. |
here comes a cowboy with his laso. go away. write about new york and threaten OBL.
we lived under communism. i lived for 18 years, roman for whopping 7. you did not. you live in the greatest country ever, populated by the bravest people ever. leave us to roll in our stinky european mud, poor and uneducated like we are...
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Chris 62
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But I'm feeling MUCH better now
Jan 2001
time: 00:15
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quote:
Originally posted by LaRusso
here comes a cowboy with his laso. go away. write about new york and threaten OBL. |
Leads off with a racial sterotype.
Sorry, but Yankees don't use lassos, old boy.
Fraid I'll write about what I like, whether you care for it or not. 
quote:
we lived under communism. i lived for 18 years, roman for whopping 7. you did not. you live in the greatest country ever, populated by the bravest people ever. leave us to roll in our stinky european mud, poor and uneducated like we are... |
Well, at least you are admitting your bias and your ignorence, a good start.
So, what nation was that? The former Yugoslavia? (that your from)
Want to know where your coming from, since your always so even minded when it comes to these things.
Never see you post accusations, attacks, pettiness, unfounded rumors, anything like that.
So tell us what it was like living under a totalitarian regieme? (No communist state has ever been anything else, so don't try that tact).
I'm willing to listen, go ahead.
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Saras
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Vilnius, Lithuania
Apr 1999
time: 06:15
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quote:
Originally posted by LaRusso
okay. russians were arguably a capitalist society before revolution. literacy was EXTREMELY low.
they starved under capitalism too.
can you name any modern russian writer? how about naming some that wrote DURING stalin era: bulgakov, fadeyev, solohov,
pasternak, simonov, ilyf & petrov etc. shostakovich also conducted and composed during stalin. russian culture did NOT die during stalin reign.
all that is left after hitler is 'lili marlen'. even that is a ww1 song. |
Well, Stalin lover, how did the life of Bulgakov, Pasternak & Ilf & Petrov look like, huh? How about Tsvetayeva? Akhmatova?
"Like many Russian intellectuals of his time, Boris Pasternak lived a life of fear and insecurity. As a poet in post-revolutionary Soviet Russia, he had to walk a very delicate line between obeying the dictates of the all-encompassing State and those of his own artistic conscience. Pasternak, and the other artists of the day, did their best to make art serve life as they saw it in a world where art was to exist only to serve the Revolution. They published their articles, compositions, symphonies and poems dreading that even a hint of disloyalty to the Revolution in their work might bring about the feared knock at the door in the middle of the night heralding arrest or worse. Dmitri Shostakovich, the famous composer, slept fitfully every night with a "prison suitcase" packed and ready. "Of course I am prepared for anything. Why should it happen to everyone else and not to me?" wrote Pasternak in one letter."
"I know the truth - give up all other truths!"
by Marina Tsvetayeva
I know the truth - give up all other truths!
No need for people anywhere on earth to struggle.
Look - it is evening, look, it is nearly night:
what do you speak of, poets, lovers, generals?
The wind is level now, the earth is wet with dew,
the storm of stars in the sky will turn to quiet.
And soon all of us will sleep under the earth, we
who never let each other sleep above it.
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Chris 62
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But I'm feeling MUCH better now
Jan 2001
time: 00:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Roland
I guess all the commie nostalgia urged Chris to oversteer on the opposite side. IMO it is not a particularly useful concept... |
Ah, Roland, I'm where I always am, in the center.
Sometime I must oppose the right, other times the left, for it is extremists that are the problem with the world. 
quote:
I have no problem with a differentiated view of the communist (or "communist", if you prefer) regimes. And for me, greenspan and his cronies are raving socialist lunatics... |
Can't argue with that, but I did say I know little of economics.
quote:
For the thread, funny... I'd rather congratulate the eastern europeans here for freeing themselves from communist oppression.  |
I'll agree here, it's like an old sitcom, aging gueststars shoot there catch phrases, same as always, and the same people applaud.
The Eastern Euros sure did free themselves, with just a little help from their friends.
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LaRusso
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appendix of Europe
May 2001
time: 06:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Saras
Well, Stalin lover, how did the life of Bulgakov, Pasternak & Ilf & Petrov look like, huh? How about Tsvetayeva? Akhmatova?
"Like many Russian intellectuals of his time, Boris Pasternak lived a life of fear and insecurity. As a poet in post-revolutionary Soviet Russia, he had to walk a very delicate line between obeying the dictates of the all-encompassing State and those of his own artistic conscience. Pasternak, and the other artists of the day, did their best to make art serve life as they saw it in a world where art was to exist only to serve the Revolution. They published their articles, compositions, symphonies and poems dreading that even a hint of disloyalty to the Revolution in their work might bring about the feared knock at the door in the middle of the night heralding arrest or worse. Dmitri Shostakovich, the famous composer, slept fitfully every night with a "prison suitcase" packed and ready. "Of course I am prepared for anything. Why should it happen to everyone else and not to me?" wrote Pasternak in one letter."
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Well Hitler lover, stop answering to something I did not say. If you like Nazis so much, join one of their movements. Just please do not tell me that they are the same thing as stalinism.
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LaRusso
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appendix of Europe
May 2001
time: 06:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris 62
Leads off with a racial sterotype.
Sorry, but Yankees don't use lassos, old boy.
Fraid I'll write about what I like, whether you care for it or not.
Well, at least you are admitting your bias and your ignorence, a good start.
So, what nation was that? The former Yugoslavia? (that your from)
Want to know where your coming from, since your always so even minded when it comes to these things.
Never see you post accusations, attacks, pettiness, unfounded rumors, anything like that.
So tell us what it was like living under a totalitarian regieme? (No communist state has ever been anything else, so don't try that tact).
I'm willing to listen, go ahead. |
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LaRusso
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appendix of Europe
May 2001
time: 06:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris 62
Boy, can't argue with that!
So, from this point, will you just drop in a when asked your postion on matters, and your backround?
I guess it would simplfy matters greatly.  |
chris
i am 30
18 yrs under communism
several years in anarchy
doctoral degree in law (american), masters also american
yugoslav communism was OK. we lived decent lives. anyone would trade their shallow 'freedom' for what we had back then. it was not perfect but it was more than bearable. repression was relatively light and directed to party members.
i hope One Foot is approx my generation to attest to this.
Now, I hope, I will be spared of your pointless interrogation. You live in the greatest system there ever was. Thank you for liberating us and leading us into the civilized world. We were nothing but Mongol hordes before. May God bless America, especially its Army, Navy and Air Force. Janitors, too (it is not easy cleaning after your crap, man
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09-10-2001 20:17
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