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Chris 62
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But I'm feeling MUCH better now
Jan 2001
time: 00:15
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quote:
Originally posted by LaRusso
chris
i am 30
18 yrs under communism
several years in anarchy
doctoral degree in law (american), masters also american
yugoslav communism was OK. we lived decent lives. anyone would trade their shallow 'freedom' for what we had back then. it was not perfect but it was more than bearable. repression was relatively light and directed to party members. |
Excellent, now I have a basis for understanding.
Thank you. 
quote:
Now, I hope, I will be spared of your pointless interrogation. You live in the greatest system there ever was. Thank you for liberating us and leading us into the civilized world. We were nothing but Mongol hordes before. May God bless America, especially its Army, Navy and Air Force. Janitors, too (it is not easy cleaning after your crap, man  |
Such sarcasim is pointless, just like trying to blame the world's ills on the US.
As an edjucated man, you should know that.
Why this endless crusade against the USA?
Don't you see how this makes you look to us, as Americans?
We laugh at all that "CIA" crap, and we are the harshest critics of our own country.
The reason we cannot fall as a power is simple, because we ARE you, and every other nation on this earth.
A mixed multitude, in one nation.
I'm no USA appologist, I know where the USA did right and wrong, but these mindless attacks are really useless.
All it does it set up a spirt of antagonism.
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LaRusso
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appendix of Europe
May 2001
time: 06:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris 62
Excellent, now I have a basis for understanding.
Thank you.
Such sarcasim is pointless, just like trying to blame the world's ills on the US.
As an edjucated man, you should know that.
Why this endless crusade against the USA?
Don't you see how this makes you look to us, as Americans?
We laugh at all that "CIA" crap, and we are the harshest critics of our own country.
The reason we cannot fall as a power is simple, because we ARE you, and every other nation on this earth.
A mixed multitude, in one nation.
I'm no USA appologist, I know where the USA did right and wrong, but these mindless attacks are really useless.
All it does it set up a spirt of antagonism. |
agreed. i am sorry if i sometimes have knee-jerk reactions to your posts. you drive me mad but that is OK 
well, since YOU are US, we have all the right to criticize heavily, right? i mean, we are criticizing ourselves? heheee.....
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Chris 62
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But I'm feeling MUCH better now
Jan 2001
time: 00:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Roland
"Never bother with lightweights"
Do I qualify with 85 kilos ? That's what, 190 lbs or so... |
Hmm, sorry, must be at least 200 lbs to qualify! 
quote:
What is that "you are us" ? Or was it "we are you"?
Just as a precaution, I hereby renounce my US citizenship should I have one.  |
Depends on your point of view.
You are us, if indeed, it's us we are discussing as oppossed to you.
However, it's we are you, if it's you that you are discussing, in reguards to us.
Is that clear? 
See the proper department to renouce citizenship, not my department! 
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bogi
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quote:
Originally posted by Seeker
Unfortunately....the 'what to do afterwards' part has been mostly botched...
The first thing should have been a return of ethnic Germans to their rightful property and ancestral homes in the lands of the Slav. |
That land was ours long before the germans ever had it. The germans should repay for warsaw,minsk,etc.. Then they might get something. Kalingrad is russia and Prussia is extinct.
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bogi
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Poland,Read about the betrayal at Yalta.
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Victor Galis
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in exile
Jul 1999
time: 00:15
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"The West could not really do much at Yalta. It had to give a sphere of influence to the Russians."
-Of course, but I'm saying we shouldn't be greatful for it.
"As for the economic misery from the sudden shift to capitalism, it was a neccessary adjustement process and things are now improving at a rapid pace."
-Ah, to some extents. But the necessary adjustment could have been softened, and there are some things that will take 10-50 more years to fix.
"Moreover, even though our incomes are only somewhat greater than during Communism, they are growing much faster and we have far greater economic choice."
-My grandparents have the most miserable state pensions, and I can certainly say that they are far worse off, at least those grandpartents on my mother's side.
"Do not forget that if it weren't for the collapse of the represive Communist regimes, we couldn't even be here to talk about it."
-Maybe, maybe not? But did the West take out communism? I would argue that it was the people of Berlin, and Gorbachov's non-intervention to crush the East German revolutionaries.
"Those that actually lived under the system don't seem to care for it much."
-You might not want to make such generalizations.
"Hey, maybe the CIA can find another Ceacescu (sp?) for you to enjoy, and you can take your lame ass back to Romania and we can all enjoy your absence from these discussion boards where I doubt you would be able to post anymore."
-I laugh in you general direction. There are more internet Cafes in Bucharest than... well there are a whole lot. If I took all my money with me, I would have no trouble spending the next year online (24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year).
"You ***** about the U.S. constantly, yet you live here and take the many freedoms and perks we offer."
-And I pay taxes to a government I can't vote for.
"You don't even have the balls to defend the people who make your life here possible."
-I don't need them, I can always return to Canada. I owe them nothing.
'Ehm... few would want to "return". And the property issue, that would open a can of worms of galactic dimensions. Nope. But some other things like getting formally rid of the Benes decrees... "
-Returning old property is a very bad idea for soo many reason.
"The Eastern Europe I am thinking of is not really the Czechs, Hungarians, or Lithuanians"
-Right, not the peoples whom you shower investment money on.
"but the 'crap' part like Rumanians, Moldovians, Poles, etc."
-You misspelled Romanians, and there is no such thing as a Moldovian.
"Oh ho ho! Wait until Mihai sees this "
-What about me?
"While capitalism may not demand strong civil rights to function in internal markets initially, it will be subsumed by more efficient systems because of the greater profits to be made when everyone in the state's abilities are allowed to be realized, and in the savings in security costs that a repressive state must expend."
-BS, it's people getting tired of being oppressed rising up. It has nothing to do with capitalism.
"You would really like my foreign policy La Russo, especially in comparison to Bush Sr., Clinton and Bush Jr. I wanted the U.S. out of NATO 10 years ago. I wanted the savings from that invested in alternative energy research, the decommissioning of most of our carriers (and some of that money spent on the development of arsenal ships). I wanted the U.S. to improve relations with Russia as it was leaving NATO, and a general but not precipitous pull back from most of our numerous security commitments. I am a neo-isolationist."
-I could stomach that pretty well. I would not lose the carriers, losing NATO is not crucial, isolationism isn't crucial. What's needed is a greater benevolence and pacifism. Speak softly, but carry a big stick.
... OK, there is no way I can respond to 60+ more replies... time to skip ahead to the last page.
"Why this endless crusade against the USA?"
-Realistic distrust/hate of the world hegemon?
"We laugh at all that "CIA" crap, and we are the harshest critics of our own country."
-Then why do you get pissed off when other people do it?
"The reason we cannot fall as a power is simple, because we ARE you, and every other nation on this earth."
-Give it about another century.
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VetLegion
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To answer Roman, no, I do not think we have to thank west for anything.
Perhaps East Germans can thank the West Germans for paying 50 bilion DM for Red Army to leave (unchecked. I heard it recently) or for economic help after the union or something.
From Croatia standpoint, I think we do not have to thank anyone. Our freedom is won with difficulty. I could blame west for allowing the bloodshed if anything.
Sure, our emigrants worked in the west and sent money home, but because west loved us? No, because it needed workforce.
Sure, we got credits, but because they love us? No, because they bring them good interest 
The western governments were, in my opinion, worthless to us. They threw weapons embargo at us when we needed weapons. The western public is the same public that looked at Vukovar and Dubrovnik being rased to the ground by superior force who had excess weapons and ammo. That same public will protest over increased price of milk or whatever. Yep, hypocrisy is a human thing, I admit I dont give a shite about afghanistan for example.
But I dont see what I have to be grateful for.
In most other things I agree with OneFootInTheGrave. Bombing of Serbia is unfortunate, but it was the only way to take down Miloševiæ. No other way.
Some points to LaRusso:
Thanks for a good site!
Interesting points you bring up. I know about both. First, the Tuğman statement, well I have absolutely nothing good to say about the man. He did us so much harm... I simply cant see who could have done more. I personaly think he was nuts.
About Zec family. The people who did it were trialed, a few times actually and it is still lasting. Hopefully criminals will be punished.
btw, text is by a Feral Tribune journalist. They were the strongest opposition to Tuğman.
There are other cases of molesting Serbs in croatia, in a Lora military prison and other places. They are going to be persecuted. It is a big problem in croatia ... there are mass protests going on because some 'heroes' are in prison now. but we will pull it out hopefully. There are even trials raised now against partisan crimes in WW2. who would expect that?
However, I do not agree that Croatia should have been bombed. At any point.
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Sirotnikov
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<--- Yes, It's a "kitty" in a boot.
Feb 2000
time: 07:15
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quote:
Originally posted by LaRusso
I guess communists exterminated Native Indians. Also, it was them who orchestrated genocide against Armenians. Nice religious people all over Europe decimated each other for centuries under 'capitalism'. Also, capitalism is the system of many small states you would rather put under the carpet.
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The things you attribute to capitalism here are the due to expansionism and imperialism.
quote:
Wa-hey, South Africa was also capitalist during apartheid, and so was America during slavery and later segregation. To equate capitalism with civil liberties is wrong. It can exist without them. |
And racism.
Both of which existed under communism as well.
However, communism automatically brings about a bad quality of life, with little luxries, manye duties and mostly, corruption.
The cummisnt economic system in Russia and China were/are completely corrupt, and that because of the communism. It's not that they had bad communism, they had communism. And as expected people exploited it to their benefit. No one would work, no luxuries were available and usually large deficits for even the most usual products.
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please take some time to count the number of capitalist countries in which people live only slightly better than animals. enjoy! |
Please take some time to count the number of communist countries in which people live only slightly better than animals.
None.
While capitalism itself doesn't promise a good and thriving economy and society, communism ruins any chance for it.
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09-10-2001 22:04
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