12-10-2001 06:10									#151
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by yin26 As I said, take out a note pad, quit trolling...and watch what will happen.

Sorry not trolling, just stating what the real world is like out there for you

	12-10-2001 06:14									#152
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Note pad, Shiva. N o t e P a d.

	12-10-2001 06:38									#153
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by drake Splangy, please. Little kiddies like you, who will have to rely on mommy and daddy to buy games for them really can't say much.

Hmmm Thats funny, considering Im not a "little Kid" and I already preordered my game with my money

quote: And trust me, this "abstract site" wouldn't mind seeing you and your little prepubscent ass leave

so because I dont agree with one person I should leave a site ive been at for 5 years. RRRIIIGGGHHHTTT...

So im not allowed to state my oppinion if its against yin? Ooohhh im sorry, did I hert yins feelings? Its apparent to me that Yin can't defend himself so his sheep have to... Thats pretty hilarius

Troll ALERT! Troll ALERT!

	12-10-2001 06:40									#154
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Shiva: Try to find a two-for-one deal on the note-pads for our friend here. Oh, and some Prozac for him if its on sale. Thanks.

	12-10-2001 06:42									#155
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Jingo for all you people who say "im not buying civ3 without mp", i know your lying. you know your obsessed. if you're on apolyton debating this fact, you have to love civ. you dont just hear about a game and spend 3 months or more talking about it and researching it only to not buy it. firaxis got you good, now bend over and pay.

Couldn't Agree more.

	12-10-2001 06:43									#156
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by yin26 Shiva: Try to find a two-for-one deal on the note-pads for our friend here. Oh, and some Prozac for him if its on sale. Thanks.

Again, avoiding the subject and going personal, but what else can I expect from this guy...

	12-10-2001 06:45									#157
	Inflate your Upload Space

Good thing I'm going on vacation for a week. Hopefully by the time I get back, yin and tniem will have found another hobby. Sigh.

	12-10-2001 06:52									#158
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

And you will have convinced yourself all you need for a good Civ3 are two lines of code and a programming manual. *sigh*

	12-10-2001 06:56									#159
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Splangy: Since you are my leading groupie, I'll finally address your idiocy directly:

Everything you THINK I've said so far is wrong, with the exception of the pirating thread, which I know was an obvious statement to make. The other things you mention only prove that you couldn't understand the basic arguments I was making in the first place.

Now, considering I find you incapable of A) Presenting an argument based on facts and not your silly trolls and B) Understanding basic facts to begin with, I have determined that you are only worth responding to if I feel like wasting some time.

But you, my little groupie, stalker friend, should sleep happy knowing that I will likely waste some more time on you again if I get really bored. Mark this day in your calendar.

	12-10-2001 07:00									#160
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by yin26 And you will have convinced yourself all you need for a good Civ3 are two lines of code and a programming manual. *sigh*

Not a bad idea, actually. As long as I can get someone else to do the graphics stuff.

yin, have a good week my friend.

	12-10-2001 07:01									#161
	Got spare money?

You, too.

	12-10-2001 07:56									#162
	Suffering from ads?

Hmm I can't understand why some of you attack yin. He gave us his opinion and he has every right to do so.

I can't say I totaly agree with him. But he made me think about the game and its "gold-status". If they cut a big feature like multiplayer without explaining it to the fans... then you can be as good as sure that the singleplayer is also effected in one or other way. Looks for me like they run out of time and money. Ctp had the same prob. Many people thought it would be THAT game but it was rushed and we - the custumer - have to pay for it. That is not the way it should be they have at least to tell us the truth.

Another point is that they hold back the reviews that doesnt makes me feel better about the game... .

I guess I am going to wait for the first pach and read the player comments before I buy this game.

Palpi

	12-10-2001 08:34									#163
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by DonJoel Do Firaxis suck? Yes, they do. Always have? No. They used to be cool. Why do they suck? They lie, they run away, they abuse peoples loyality. (These statements only applies if Firaxis charge anything for mp, not if its a free download. But if it was, why wouldnt they say so?)

ADD to that!!!::

Since Ive made myself a well functioning Modpack in CTP1 (my favorite game so far) I think itll be better thn civ3 anyway!

FIRAXIS IS WORSE THAN ACTIVISION!!!!!
Activision gave us everything they promised to give us!
They gave us CTP. the only reason that was so crap is because they didnt know how to make civs.
They REALISED that they made a mistake and tried their best to make a better game. Although it had more errors, you can see they have put a lil effort in it.
FIRAXIS is sitting there planning on selling civ3 and because its so addictive, theyll sell MP as well JUST TO MAKE MONEY.

Its alright what they did to civ2 because Sid didnt know that he could imply MP, thats why he created the expansion. NOT because he wanted to get money out of it in the first place!

FIRAXIS U PISS ME OFF! Now u better make a damn good army otherwise ur screwed, because Activision's combat system which im gonna use to CRUSH u is better than Sid's system!

	12-10-2001 08:35									#164
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I will not cancel my preorder

I've played Civ since 1991, and have yet to play one single game of MP. So it doesn't matter to me.

I don't think Firaxis behaved badly. They held off making an announcement because they didn't know what they would be able to do.

For those of you who are MP fans, and you feel you were deceived into preordering Civ...Guess what? You can cancel. You haven't bought it yet. Feel free. In fact, I encourage it if it will ensure they don't run out and I get mine faster.

Don't go around screaming about "false advertising" and deception when not one single person has actually bought the game.

Will I buy an MP expansion? If it's JUST MP...nope, not interested. If it includes new civs and other, non-MP features? Provided I like the original (which I think I will), you betcha. Happily. If I get MP with it, that's swell. Doesn't matter.

Everyone here has a right to b!tch however they want, and I think there are many people who are only happy when complaining. But I think you'd all feel much better if you would step back, say to yourself: "It is just a game. A game I haven't bought yet, a game I don't own. It's not that important."

Then go out and romp in a meadow.

Cheers.

Last edited by Boris Godunov on 12-10-2001 at 08:47

	12-10-2001 09:40									#165
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

It is just a game. A game I haven't bought yet, a game I don't own. It's not that important."

I basically agree. But you have to realize that a number of people here really poured a lot of time and effort to try to help Firaxis implement some cool ideas. And while these people represent a very small fraction of the Civ population, their influence cannot be overestimated.

And those are the people who feel Firaxis has not met even the least degree of civility in thanking the fans in some announcement or even in keeping them informed IN THE FACE OF REPEATED REQUESTS for information that, for some of us, is crucial to whether we buy the game now, later or ever.

So I would say: 'It's not that important' unless you've spent the last two years of a lot of your free time to try to help the company get some great ideas...only to be basically blown aside.

Does Firaxis have every right to act that way? Of course. Will acting that way affect the average 15 year old just browsing in the computer store? No, probably not. But will alienating a core group of your most die hard fans eventually bite you in the butt?

Who knows, actually. But the stupidity of doing so astounds me when all it would have taken this entire time are some piddly official announcements and few nods towards where these ideas came from in the first place.

Of course, the tumble-weed posters here who invested nothing in this process the past 2 years are rolling in here with their b.s., uninformed attitude that there is nothing to complain about. I suppose if I had ignored Civ3 the past 2 years I'd feel the same way.

	12-10-2001 10:19									#166
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I've just gone through all of this thread and I must admit some of the SP's got my goat and several of my pigs with their attitude.

I agree with a lot of points that yin has made and not only that I'm impressed by the way he has made them. If yin was simply trolling then he would post a few inflammatory remarks and watch the fireworks whereas in this thread he has been consistent in his views not only in this thread but others I've seen over the last few months. That isn't being a troll.

Firaxis said there would be a revolutionary MP. That isn't going to happen on release. These things happen. But the thing that gets me is that there has been no official confirmation about MP from Firaxis, no posting from Dan, no information on the website. That is an insult to the customers. If you go through the threads you will see how many times people have asked about MP. No response.

I promise you every single review of Civ3 will mention there is no MP and criticise the game because of that. People talk about Civ2 not having MP when it was released as if that proves their point. How many people have internet connections now compared to then? What percentage of games now have MP as an integral part of them compared to games then? The year is 2001 much different from when Civ2 was released.

But don't worry because we will be able to BUY MP sometime next year. Great! A game in two parts, more profit for the company, less value for the customer. Isn't that a wonderful concept?

	12-10-2001 10:30									#167
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Palpatine Hmm I can't understand why some of you attack yin. He gave us his opinion and he has every right to do so. Palpi

An opinion is one thing. A steady drum beat of trolling is another. The guy was the man incharge of the "idea List" and feels that firaxis owes him something (its gotten personal for him). Since hes not getting what he thinks he's due he starts topics like this (and hes started quite a few of them) and wants to get them to pay attention to him. Push him on stuff like some of the people in this thread did and he gets angry cause he's bitter and arrogant. If you dont agree with him your wrong, you point out facts like most people who'll play civ3 will never set foot in here or play MP and he starts acting childish. Of couse if your not a forum whore your opinion is worthless. Got to love elitists cause they always know better than the unwashed masses.

	12-10-2001 10:36									#168
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I S O

	12-10-2001 10:40									#169
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Damn Why are Yin's thread so fscking popular? I try to right interesting threads which aren't melodromatic, and they sink like a rock. BASTARD!

	12-10-2001 10:41									#170
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: An opinion is one thing. A steady drum beat of trolling is another.

Still don't get why this was posted now, do you? You purposely like to stay misinformed?

quote: The guy was the man incharge of the "idea List" and feels that firaxis owes him something (its gotten personal for him).

I am one of many such people who think that devoting a great deal of spare time to help a company make a great game should be met with more than deliberate silence on important issues.

quote: Since hes not getting what he thinks he's due he starts topics like this (and hes started quite a few of them) and wants to get them to pay attention to him.

And I'll start more if I feel it necessary. And I could care less if Firaxis pays attention to ME. This is about the fans in general, even you.

quote: Push him on stuff like some of the people in this thread did and he gets angry cause he's bitter and arrogant.

"Pushing" What a joke. Trolling you mean?

quote: If you dont agree with him your wrong, you point out facts like most people who'll play civ3 will never set foot in here or play MP and he starts acting childish.

I still say you should buy a note pad.

quote: Of couse if your not a forum whore your opinion is worthless.

Opinions from an uninformed troll might not be worthless, but close.

quote: Got to love elitists cause they always know better than the unwashed masses.

Hey, if you admit that you don't know what you are talking about, then we agree.

	12-10-2001 10:44									#171
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Damn Why are Yin's thread so fscking popular? I try to right interesting threads which aren't melodromatic, and they sink like a rock. BASTARD!

LOL! One word: "Mojo"

	12-10-2001 10:45									#172
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by yin26 Hey, if you admit that you don't know what you are talking about, then we agree.

Forgot to add childish.

	12-10-2001 10:54									#173
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Yes. 'Childish' is a stunning retort. Run out of actual arguments?

	12-10-2001 10:56									#174
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by yin26 Yes. 'Childish' is a stunning retort. Run out of actual arguments?

Me thinks that already happend to you when you cried out "notepad" there bud

	12-10-2001 11:02									#175
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

You thinks? That's nice. Let me explain for you then.

Notepad = You are writing about a number of things that you clearly don't understand. For example precisely what I am arguing for and why. You mis-represent it. You troll it. You also claim that bad PR won't make any difference in sales. Part of that bad PR from my point of view is how the MP issue was handled. When the official reviews come and it becomes clear that this actually IS HURTING sales, I want you to take out your notepad, write this moment down, and refer to it in the future to keep you from making similar silly posts.

Then again, continue on as you are. Please try to say something worth replying to, however, for your last few tries have been decidely dull and nearly brain dead. Thanks.

	12-10-2001 11:02									#176
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by drake ...They like the "win everytime" comfort that comes with SP games. Can't convince them otherwise, so just let it go......

Well, I for one only play SP, but I do consider that a gamecompany should today publish also MP. (And when they did it on SMAC why not on Civ3?)

I am one of those who only likes to win and thus I was alreeady planning a MP game against Yin But now I cann't play MP?!?

	12-10-2001 11:03									#177
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

By the way, Shiva...rest assured that I do consider you a forum whore. Congratulations on the title.

	12-10-2001 11:05									#178
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Jeje: Let's play international hotseat. You fly out here a couple times, make a move. I fly out there a couple times, make a move. Should only take about 80 years and close to a million dollars.

	12-10-2001 11:38									#179
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by yin26 You thinks? That's nice. Let me explain for you then. Notepad = You are writing about a number of things that you clearly don't understand. For example precisely what I am arguing for and why. You mis-represent it. You troll it. You also claim that bad PR won't make any difference in sales. Part of that bad PR from my point of view is how the MP issue was handled. When the official reviews come and it becomes clear that this actually IS HURTING sales, I want you to take out your notepad, write this moment down, and refer to it in the future to keep you from making similar silly posts. Then again, continue on as you are. Please try to say something worth replying to, however, for you last few tries have been decidely dull and nearly brain dead. Thanks.

God you just dont understand that that the lack of MP will not affect the overall numbers of sales that much. You think it will make the sales less than stellar? Hey thats ok, some people think the worlds flat too.

And what "bad PR"??? Because they wont talk about whats going on behind thier door and they are being tight lipped? Please get a clue. You must not have been around much over the past 15 years of game software.

You really think that the game mags are going to give bad reviews because of that. Not a chance. Hell I'll be suprised if any of the bigger gaming mags give it below a 87 if its bad. They at least used to stick it to games when they we're bad but they dont anymore. It takes an act of god to do that.

This game will sell big. In the same range as Diablo 2 worldwide. It has a name and a legacy to carry whatever small flaws it will have. Sorry its just a fact of life. You can sit in here all you want tilting at windmills all you want but your still just a big fish in a small pond. In the overall picture this place isnt going to effect much at all.

So please take that and write it down for yourself. Maybe some day you'll end up seeing what goes on behind the sceens of a game release and then you'll understand because you sure as hell dont now. So please just quit with the attitude that your holier than everyone. It wears thin.

	12-10-2001 11:38									#180
	Sunday driver Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov I've played Civ since 1991, and have yet to play one single game of MP.

That's like buying a car and only driving it from the garage to your front gate and back every Sunday