27-11-2001 11:11									#241
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WesW,
are you gonna be making mods for civ3? or are you still into ctp2?
your mods for ctp2 were excellent and it would be great if you made mods for civ3 since you are so experienced and dedicated.

	27-11-2001 11:12									#242
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Yeah, I'm not even sure how to add icons to the build queue. I would love to do so for some of the new wonders and such that we created.

	27-11-2001 11:16									#243
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I am working on that Monkspider. I am afraid, though, that it is like the city view screen. But I haven't done that much with it yet. I'll let you know what I find out.

	27-11-2001 13:52									#244
	Visual range Support Apolyton

Some suggestions:

I would like to have some ability to extend the visual range, either by buildings like Radar Stations in cities or as a terrain improvement like the fortress (I wonder how the Brits would have stopped us without the radar stations in WWII).

I can't understand why a gallon has the same range of view (in fact perhaps 50 km) as a modern battleship (realy about 300 km).

Perhaps we could get some kind of radar unit (visual range about 5 squares) and a radar plane like the E3-Sentry or the Hawkeye (visual range about 8 and 6 squares).

A small wonder like "Spy Satellite Command Center" should reveal all the map incl. units expt. subs.

Thanks for reading...

Maverick

	27-11-2001 16:51									#245
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Mr. 469,

Well, as you probably know by now, you and I aren't the only ones having this problem. I was a fool when I initially posted the problem, and didn't describe the situation too well. The specifics of my game are; I'm playing the Americans, the Industrial age has just begun, and none of the units that use population, i.e. workers and the colonist, appear in either the build queue or on ships. That's not to say they aren't there - just there small, representative icons disappear.

Question: has the probability for resources, specifically strategic resources, been fooled with in this mod? 'Cause it sure seems like I've got access to alot of them (except oil and uranium, of course).

	27-11-2001 18:55									#246
	Full PM-box? Change here!

No sir,

We have not messed with the resource distribution, what so ever.

	27-11-2001 20:01									#247
	Airlift capability and pillaging Suffering from ads?

Some further suggestions:

IMHO every military land unit should be airliftable.

Why shouldn't a leader, a settler, a scout, a worker or a colonist be able to board a plane?

I even gave airlift capability to all of the artillery units, to cruise missiles, tactical nukes and armys.
After all, it's not that hard to load some Tomahawks into a C-17, is it?

OTOS, should tanks, mech. infantery and radar artillery realy be airliftable? Even a C-17 can load only 2 Abrahams a time. That's why all the hard stuff had to be delivered to Audi Sarabia by ship.

I also gave the pillage ability to all land units except settlers, 'cause it's not that hard to burn a field of crops or to blow-up a road/bridge.

Most of the changes I did from a logical p-o-v and have to test them, but I do not see why this should un-"balance" the mod.

Thanks for reading...

Maverick

	27-11-2001 20:19									#248
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We need to find out how the computer handles those changes first. If you can determine that, that would be great.

	28-11-2001 01:32									#249
	Balancing the Space Race Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Ahoy, all,

'Nother game, 'nother concern: Is the Space Race too easy, and more importantly, does it make the endgame go too quickly?

Playing as those funky Iroquois, I managed to survive on Regent level until the late 1800's despite having only 8 cities on a standard sized map, with the Americans and Aztecs breathing down my neck from the get-go.

Diplomatically and culturally I was a contender, and both the Aztecs and the Yanks lost a city to me from culture. Also, I took the opportunity of a world-war against the Aztecs to grab another of their cities with the Leonardo's Wonder when the Persians and Babylonians were mopping them up.

Then, amazingly, almost 40-50 turns passed with no war. The Brits pulled to the fore, and I kept nice with them and bought off some of thier techs.

Then the space race began. Then it ended. 17 turns in total, from my building the Apollo Program to launching my colonization ship. The other Civs were all a turn or two behind, so it was definitely a race. Even placed a dozen tac nukes in nuc subs off the coast of England, along with a small invasion force, just incase I needed to, uh, 'inspect' the Brit's space ship. But it was 1888 and the only thing anyone had researched was directly towards the space race.

I'm not overly concerned about the 19th century space ships. It was a fairly even race, though two or three of the six remaining Civs were obviously the finalists.

SoI'm wondering if the distribution of Space Ship components is presently unbalanced? Should some of them be in Robotics? (SS Cockpit was the first that came to mind, since the mission is largely computer controlled) Any in miniturization? Genetics not being required to put people into stasis for a few dozen years? Hrm...

Presently, I'm concerned in that the various pieces are largely clumped into Synthetic Fibers and Space Flight. Wondering if others have any thoughts, and if you, too, feel there's room for some balancing...

Yaga

	28-11-2001 01:54									#250
	Pillaging! Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Good points, Maverick. My thoughts on the subject...

I think I disagree with allowing too many units have the ability to pillage terrain. Destroying via pillaging is harder than it sounds, especially in the modern age. Most non-military units aren't going to have access to the tools, knowledge and explosives necessary to throughly blow them up.

In pre-industrial societies, you could send un-armed people into a hostile environment to destory the roads and irrigation of the people who live and work that land, just don't expect angry mobs with pitch forks and woodaxes to let them get away with it

Personally, I'd like to see pillageing being restricted to anything with an offensive cabaility of 1 or higher. (not including bombardment) AI usasage aside, it seems more 'realistic' to me. Still, I'll defer to Monk and Elu; just putting in my 2 pfennig.

Totally agree with the airlifting, and that there needs to be a balance. At the same time, Modern Armor is pretty much the be-all-end-all of Modern Era ground offense; any restriction in airlifting is going to have to be balanced, in my mind, with either increased water transport capabilities (either storage or movement) and with the AI's ability to understand that they cannot airlift the units.

Okay, I've been way too chatty this morning already, and I've still another post to go.

Take care,
Yaga

	28-11-2001 02:00									#251
	Reichstag Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

...Shoot, can't remember if I'd asked this, so I'll be brief:

Does building the Reichstag have any of the requirements of having a leader appear, and/or having an army be victorious in combat? I havn't had the opportunity to try it out myself, but I'm curious if these requirements are coded into the wonder. As it gives a Military College in every city, I was wondering...

Collary stupid question: Do the effects of a gov't specific wonder properly expire when the gov't changes, then re-appear when the gov't changes back?

Thanks,
Yaga

	28-11-2001 02:33									#252
	Yaga Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I agree w/you and the quickness of the space race.....right now in my current game we are in the late 1800 almost 1900 and 3 ai civs and myself are def racing to build it. I too believe some tweaking of the spaceship componets are needed.
Your 2nd point about eh reichstag...i have built the reichstag and hopefully before one of the ai civs launches the spaceship i can take my one army i have now..and win a victory to see if it work properly...hopefully i can do that tonite and report back................matter of fact i will just upload my save game file and the rest of you guys whoever wants to can try it and see if they can test the abilities of the reichstag...................

Attachment: tokugawa of the japanese, 710 ad.zip
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	28-11-2001 02:52									#253
	Minor... Tired of ads?

Just realized that Expansionist Civs start out with a Settler, and not a Colonist. Any thoughts on keeping this, or changing it?

	28-11-2001 04:38									#254
	Remove this text

No, it's a colonist...

Also, something I noticed today- workers don't seem to subtract a point of pop from expansionist civs (at least for the Russians), perhaps this tie has something to do with why the pics of them don't show up...

	28-11-2001 05:07									#255
	Got spare money?

Yaga, Maverick,

A lot of good points, however, before we implement anything we want to ensure that it does not give the player an unfair advantage (read: AI can/will not use the change). I thought it would be cool and more realistic myself, but then thought, well if the AI can't use it, what's the point.

NOTE: I haven't tested it myself.

Also Yaga,

The Reichstag's only requirement is that you have a Fascist government. The effects of government specific wonders do not expire when you change governments. Although I would love to implement that.

I haven't seen the space-race in any of my games yet...I think moving some SpaceShip components around on the tech tree would help, but that will be for a later version maybe 1.6 as we have a lot of updating and testing to do on 1.5 as it is. Sorry.


Cian,

I've never seen that. Are you the Russians? Also what level are you playing on?

	28-11-2001 05:10									#256
	Which bic to click? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I am having trouble using the editor. It seems that no matter which civ3mod file I alter, it just causes the game to crash.
I need someone to give me exact instructions on which file to open and what to save it as. I may have mis-copied the instructions in the editor thread. I believe the trouble is that one file is named "civ3mod BIC File" and the other "civ3mod.bic BAK File".

I went through the units with the editor today, and may a whole list of small changes to the unique units, plus adding ZOC's to mounted and artillery units, plus the Longbowman, Rifleman and Infantry.
I believe that if an enemy exposes its flank, that these units will be able to open fire on, or attack them.

Once I get the game to work with the changes, I will attach the file here and a list of the changes.

As to EP's question, I just plan to offer advice and opinions with everyone else here, at least for the time being. There needs to be a lot of unit graphics made and an editor which will allow new advance icons, civs, etc. Once I see what is available to us, and if I have the time, I may start on a Medpack III for Civ III.

	28-11-2001 05:27									#257
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I named my backups- civ3mod-bak.bic, civ3mod2.bic, and civ3mod-new.bic. Then I just edit civ3mod.bic. Don't know exactly what your asking though. I hope this helped.

	28-11-2001 06:06									#258
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Well, the file in the Balancer zip is called "civ3mod", and listed as a Bic file. When I open this file with the editor, modify it and save it, the game crashes. It does not matter what changes I make. Apparently this file must match some other file, and I do not know which one.
When you save the file in the editor, do you simply "save" it, or do you "save as" to another name?

	28-11-2001 06:21									#259
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I have it extracted to a separate folder. I edit it, hit CTRL-S, and then copy it to my civ 3 directory. So I don't know what is wrong. Does the game let you play it if it is not edited?

	28-11-2001 06:50									#260
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...I'm wondering if having gov't specific wonders isn't a little unbalancing then, esp in the favor of Religious Civs, which only have the single turn of anarchy in switching governments.

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

Also, pretty sure that all Civs start with a Settler - and I don't think you can change it using the Editor: In the "Units" tab, it has a "Starting Units" section (or maybe it says "Free Units," I forget" - there it lists Settler, Worker, Scout. Tried playing around with it, but there didn't seem to be any way to make the starting units Civ or Quality specific...

Wes: Best advice I can give on using the editor is to reboot *before* you use it, then load the "Civ3Mod.bic" file from the Civ III root directory. Save to the same directory before quitting. As always, make a back up. This should allow you to run the changes from the normal, "New Game" menu option. I'd advise against trying to use the "Scenario" menu option, as many (myself included) have observed problems with this option.

Also, there seems to be a resource leak somewhere in Civ III, as I've noticed that when I try and go back and forth between the editor and the game, or even launch the game, quit, then launch again, I'll get crashes, corrupted graphics, etc. Poking around, Civ III seems to spawn at least two other processes (seen in the "Ctrl-Alt-Del" menu) and these, too, may be the problem. (For reference, I'm playing on a Celeron 500a w/ 512 MB or Ram, Riva TNT2 graphics card and running Win98SE)

So, make back ups, reboot if there are problems, and you should be fine. I'll try and help answer any other problems you may have subsequently.

Cheers,
Yaga

	28-11-2001 07:05									#261
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I just got done testing the ability to build some of the government specific wonders and such and switching governments and building those and so on. It is difficult to do regardless, although like you said a religious civ would benefit the most from it.

That is why I would really like to add restrictions to this.

	28-11-2001 07:19									#262
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Wes, shouldn't your talents be directed more toward making scenarios (when the time comes) instead of constantly messing with the regular game? I would say that 95% of all customization efforts in Civ2 were involved in creating units, tech trees, events, improvements/wonders, terrains, etc. relating to the scenarios' focus. I know only Civ2 had such a robust scenario-designer community and not the other titles, but the expectations of Civ3 scenarios promise a great deal of creativity, imagination and historical knowledge. In most scenarios, you have to accurately define and design each and every unit from scratch, in other words, start over in making Civ3 fit that time period or event. The same goes with the tech tree and any other elements of the game. That's not "modding" but "customizing" or "creating". Right now without a full editor and the inability to create scenarios, I just view such "mods" such as the one discussed here as a temporary creative outlet. "Modding" the regular game was not something you saw very much in Civ2, creating customized scenarios was what kept that game very popular for years (along with MP). Civ3 should expect the same.

	28-11-2001 08:10									#263
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Yaga, you are correct. All civs start with a Settler. There isn't much we can do about that at this point. Good eye, BTW, I hadn't even thought to look for this. Thanks for pointing it out.

	28-11-2001 08:23									#264
	Re: Visual range Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by mavmcleod Some suggestions: I would like to have some ability to extend the visual range, either by buildings like Radar Stations in cities or as a terrain improvement like the fortress (I wonder how the Brits would have stopped us without the radar stations in WWII). I can't understand why a gallon has the same range of view (in fact perhaps 50 km) as a modern battleship (realy about 300 km). Perhaps we could get some kind of radar unit (visual range about 5 squares) and a radar plane like the E3-Sentry or the Hawkeye (visual range about 8 and 6 squares). A small wonder like "Spy Satellite Command Center" should reveal all the map incl. units expt. subs. Thanks for reading... Maverick

Maverick,

I am sorry your post slipped through. I read it and I thought I responded, but in reveiw I guess I didn't. Again, my apologies.

Radar Stations: City Improvements cannot (to my knowledge) add visual range. It would be nice if you could add, say, one extra step to the normal visual range with a Radar Station. Or if we could add a tile improvement, which may complicate things for the computer workers. However, we currently cannot do either. I like the idea, however.

I believe we could extend the range of a battleship...never thought about it.

Also the carrier has radar, but how would you use an AWACS? Set it to Air Superiority, or would it's mere existance in a city or on a carrier activate it? Of course, what's to say you cannot add movement to air units. I've never tried but that might work.

As far as the small wonder I like the idea, for the most part, but again, currently no capability for it.

We will probably put some of this in the wish list for a future balancer mod.

	28-11-2001 08:47									#265
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quote: Cian, I've never seen that. Are you the Russians? Also what level are you playing on?

Yup, I'm the Russians and I was playing through the game with the mod to see if everything works correctly on Chieftain...

	28-11-2001 09:00									#266
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Did that happen from the onset of the game, or did it start suddenly?

	28-11-2001 09:12									#267
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Monkspider,

Problems with 1.5. Contact me...email, ICQ, Apolyton PM.

	28-11-2001 09:20									#268
	Reichstag Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

There could be a problem w/the reichstag......in my game....i have built the reichstag...it does show now that every city i own has a military acadamey in place....so now i should be able to build armies upto my city limit...which is for every 4 cities you can support an army....i have 31 cities i should support upot 7 armies...however...i cannot get any of my cities to build an army...maybe i am doing something wrong....maybe this has nothing to do w/the reichstage wonder....however i have accomplished everything i need to be able to use the military acad. that the reichstag has put in place but i cannot.....i have an army that is victorious in combat etc..........someone please help or give advice here..................

	28-11-2001 09:24									#269
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So Amry does not display in your build queue?

	28-11-2001 09:32									#270
	Eluc Got spare money?

No. The Army does not show up in the build queue. I know i have all requirements to be able to build the armies now. Really the only requirement you need besides of coarse the military acad., is an army already existing in your civ and that army be victourious in a battle, and i have done that?! Again, i dont know if i am missing another part in the mixture, or the reichstag wonder is not working properly, but i dont think that is it, the only thing its suppose to do is give you a military acadamy in every city right?, well it has done that in my game, the only other possiblity would be that the small wonder military acad...is broke!!!!! What do you think?

By the way...on up in the posts here...i posted my save game file....right when the reichstag is about to be built..i uploaded that file for people to d/l and test the reichstag ability w/me if they wanted to....maybe you can try it if you have time sometime to d/l that save game and see for yourself.