10-01-2002 04:22									#1
	Deaf "culture" Full PM-box? Change here!

I saw this show on pbs last night about this deaf couple who wont allow their child to get a cochlear implant which would allow her to hear and learn to speak because they are afraid she would lose her "deaf culture"!

To me this is child abuse. These parents are forcing a disability on their child simply because they dont know what she and they are missing! They need to accept the fact that deafness is a disability and not a "culture" .

Here is a link:
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/soundandfury/culture/index.html

Mods: Can you please move this thread to the OT for me?

	10-01-2002 06:37									#2
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Read this thread and reply to it you lazy bastards!

	10-01-2002 06:40									#3
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I see no problem with this, and I do not see deafness as some sort of horrible flaw that would warrant this reaction.

	10-01-2002 06:49									#4
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I really am too lazy a bastard to reply, but oh well

as ****ed up as this may be, I see nothing wrong with it. Parents force worse things on their children. Like the Catholic religion

	10-01-2002 06:56									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident Parents force worse things on their children. Like the Catholic religion

And most other religions too

	10-01-2002 07:04									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld I see no problem with this, and I do not see deafness as some sort of horrible flaw that would warrant this reaction.

So you would have no problem with a family of cripples breaking a childs legs if they werent crippled?

	10-01-2002 07:09									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia So you would have no problem with a family of cripples breaking a childs legs if they werent crippled?

Invalid analogy. The child is not being crippled by her parents, she was born with the disability.

	10-01-2002 07:09									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia So you would have no problem with a family of cripples breaking a childs legs if they werent crippled?

Yeah... like that is a "fair" comparison

You weren't talking about a couple of deaf people cutting off the ears of a "hearing" child...

	10-01-2002 07:15									#9
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I saw that documentary a long time ago. It bothered me, I'd want my child to have all the opportunities afforded to her. But it's their choice, if they don't want the child to have them...so be it.

Can't the kid get the implants later on in life if she wants anyway?

	10-01-2002 07:17									#10
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yeah the kid can get implants later. but it is difficult and near impossible to learn how to talk unless you can hear. It's easier to learn to talk at a younger age.

	10-01-2002 07:27									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Starchild Invalid analogy. The child is not being crippled by her parents, she was born with the disability.

Her parents are crippling her in that they are stopping her from overcoming her disability.

	10-01-2002 07:28									#12
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They do not view it as a disability.

	10-01-2002 07:31									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Starchild They do not view it as a disability.

Thats because they dont know what it is to hear sound. They have never experienced it, so they dont understand it. I bet if they could have perfect hearing for one day and you played them all kinds of beautiful music and sounds they would soon change their mind about the "deaf culture".

	10-01-2002 07:41									#14
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And do you know what it is to be deaf? I disagree with the parents, but I'm not the one in a position to judge.

	10-01-2002 07:43									#15
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Exactly, they've never experienced it. Would you be willing to force invasive surgery on your child for an experience that is utterly alien to you?

They may turn away from deaf culture if they experience sound. They may also decide to stay in their current understandable, if silent, world.

If you could be surgically changed so you could see ultraviolet like the bee or infrared like the viper, would you rush to alter your life forever? Or would you stay with the life you understand, even if, compared to some, it's slightly more sensually limited?

	10-01-2002 07:58									#16
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As a parent, I would have to agree with Cal, this stuff about "deaf culture" is rubbish.

I want only the best, every advantage for my boy, this couple's attitude is selfish and borders on criminal.

	10-01-2002 08:03									#17
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They don't view hearing as enough of an advantage to justify major invasive surgery.

	10-01-2002 08:14									#18
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IIRC, they're from Quebec or something. If I lived there I wouldn't want to hear either.

Starchild: Your analogy about ultraviolet light is not exactly correct either. The rest of society cannot view ultraviolet light. When we're talking about deafness, it's an advantage everyone else has that they can hear. Not being able to hear is a serious disadvantage in life. The parents knew this, but their excuse behind not letting her get the implants was that they've been deaf, and they live happy lives. Therefore, you don't have to hear to have a happy life.

While that's certainly true, it's far easier to not be considered "disabled" by society: To hear someone honking at you when you're cutting them off, to hear and communicate with co-workers, etc.

But again, it's the parent's call. People should not get pissed off because of what they've chosen for their family. Learn to be tolerant of other people's decisions and choices, even though they make no sense to you.

	10-01-2002 08:21									#19
	Re: Deaf "culture" Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Caligastia I saw this show on pbs last night about this deaf couple who wont allow their child to get a cochlear implant which would allow her to hear and learn to speak because they are afraid she would lose her "deaf culture"! To me this is child abuse. These parents are forcing a disability on their child simply because they dont know what she and they are missing! They need to accept the fact that deafness is a disability and not a "culture" . Here is a link: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/soundandfury/culture/index.html Mods: Can you please move this thread to the OT for me?

In Hong Kong, mainstream schools for the deaf refuse to teach sign language. The logic is that sign language becomes a crutch and isolates the deaf child from society. So the chochlear implant is forced onto the child.

The interesting thing is the deaf children learn sign language from their deaf friends, but because it is not taught in schools, numerous "dialects' of sign language have developed here. The sign language in one neighborhood may be completely different from another neighborhood.

One great thing about "deaf culture" is that instead of looking at deafness as a negative, it is viewed as a positive. In other words, instead of viewing themselves as victims of a disability, they perceive their deafness as a strength.

What do you think of the French Canadian parent living in a Montreal who does not teach their child to speak English. Is this child abuse?

	10-01-2002 08:41									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Chris 62 I want only the best, every advantage for my boy, this couple's attitude is selfish and borders on criminal.

Possibly, but parents in the US have always been given what I consider extraordinary powers, especially with regards to "faith healing" and other such nonsense. Why is this worse than not forcing Amish parents to allow operations on their children?

EDIT: I just noticed that this is a Canadian parent. I'm pretty sure the law up here is stricter w.r.t. parental power. If this isn't against the law it should be.

	10-01-2002 08:46									#21
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse If this isn't against the law it should be.

Leave it to the socialists to force their opinions on others.

	10-01-2002 08:48									#22
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The cochlear ear implant is an Australian invention and we have had the debate here. There are a few vocal deaf "radicals" who claim the device is "genocide" against deaf people but they are very much at the lunatic fringe.

To see this thing switched on and see a deaf child hear for the first time is a wonderful thing. They take a deep breath of surprise and their faces light up with delight as soon as they hear the first sound. Draw your own conclusions.

	10-01-2002 08:51									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Leave it to the socialists to force their opinions on others.

Why? Should we let parents do whatever they think is right in raising their children? Children require extraordinary protection from harm, and the State needs to be there to ensure that such protection is present.

	10-01-2002 08:57									#24
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Why? Should we let parents do whatever they think is right in raising their children? Children require extraordinary protection from harm, and the State needs to be there to ensure that such protection is present.

These are not riskless procedures. You have another thing coming if you think it should be against the law for parents to refuse to have their daughter implanted with a device that's not necessary for her survival. She's not dying, she's perfectly healthy. She just can't hear.

This type of situation should be totally left up to the family, not a beaurocrat in the government.

	10-01-2002 08:59									#26
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IF THERE WAS AN AWARD FOR WORST PARENTS OF THE YEAR I'D HAVE TO SAY THEY ARE RIGHT UP THERE IN THE TOP ****ING 10.

I SAW THIS SH1T AND IF THE GOD DAMN KID WANTS THE ****ING IMPLANT, THE KID SHOULD GET IT.

WHAT A BUNCH OF MORONS.

	10-01-2002 09:00									#27
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DEAF CULTURE MY ASS.

	10-01-2002 09:01									#28
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Back up -- Where did it say the kid wants the implant?

If the kid wants the implant, she should get it.

	10-01-2002 09:02									#29
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Why? Should we let parents do whatever they think is right in raising their children?

What's the problem, KH? The child is perfectly healthy and will still be able to lead a productive life. What is the State interest in over-riding personal freedom when no life is being put at risk?

	10-01-2002 09:04									#30
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The part I saw, the kid was arguing with the parents because the kid wanted the thing. The Dad was emphatically telling the kid, "no" in sign language, but the desparate look on the kid's face said it all.