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Hermann the Lombard
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Hoboken, NJ, USA
Jun 1999
time: 00:17
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quote:
Originally posted by vmxa1
The use of "active" to check trade status requires contact, this should not be. We should be able to check on our own trades with out contacting the AI. A busines would look at its own auditors or contracts, not call the other company to get this type of data. Since they info on contact screen does not require any special gathering, it should be available on my trade advisor screen without contact. I want to know if they have any money before I waste time contacting them. |
Agreed, we should be able to check on our own trades (and treaties) without having to make contact (and especially without having to trip the "offer" button). I disagree that we should know how much money they have without contact (a spy in place, definitely; an embassy, maybe).
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Psycho_Mantis
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Leading the forces of Mother Russia into battle
Jan 2002
time: 21:17
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I figure that the AI can probably see all the strategic resources from the beginning, but doesnt put the ones it doesnt need in priority until the time comes.
Or perhaps it just build EVERYWHERE is possibly can...
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bsklepzig
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Wisconsin, USA
Jan 2002
time: 23:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Zachriel
Correct. It's a strategy every human player should consider, as well. |
I don't believe it's as simple as the AI getting lucky with massive settling efforts:
* Playing the huge earth map that shipped with the game, but only 8 total civs, there's a lot of unclaimed land. It's the 1950's now, but the top half of Asia is still sparsely populated. From industrial times, Eqypt had this odd row of three cities at least 10 squares removed from the rest of their empire. When the Aluminum tech (Rocketry, right?) came available to the various civs (myself and Egypt included) ... sonofagun if there wasn't a can of aluminum exactly one square due west of the city square for each city.
* Same game, France was based in North America. They largely ignored Alaska. The cities they did place had oil in the city square or directly adjacent once refining came available (I got refining first ...)
* Large map, pangea. While at war with France, I fought battles over control of one square of rubber. I'd kick them off, they'd kick me off and fortify, etc. until I got a settler up there to build a city I could defend (& quickly sign peace). I was the only one with the rubber tech (I think Replaceable Parts).
Each of these instances had AI cities/defensive efforts that were away from or unique from their other settlements/activities.
Side note:
I haven't known if constantly opening trades to check on what the AI has (tech/$$$/resources) to offer (so I can find the likely highest bidder and work down) bugs them or not. I do it often enough that if it does bug them, I could ramp to annoyed pretty quickly. I've gotten in the habit of making frequent, petty "good will gifts." I usually give terriatory maps or 1 or 2 gold lump sum. I get one of 5 or 6 generic phrases of thanks (i.e. "this will do much to bring our peoples together") and they stay polite. It has been suggested elsewhere (Vel's thread?) that this style of gift-giving can affect their long-term assessment of you as a potential trading partner, affecting many AI behaviors.
Oh, and this is all pre-patch.
Ben
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Aeson
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orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:17
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In my current game I have been using renegotiating of peace treaties to extort cities from the AI. When negotiating with the Russians, I was consistantly able to get 2-3 cities every 20 turns. All of these cities were size 1, no expanded cultural borders, with no visible resources. During one of the negotiations, I was hoping to get Batum. At the time it was size 1, as was Tutsi. No one had even gotten into the Middle ages yet, but while the Russians were more than willing to part with Tutsi (actually the city that was near Tutsi, I moved and renamed it) "they would never accept such a deal" was their response for Batum in the same exchange. Considering the visible value of the two cities, Tutsi was by far the better city site, as you can see from the picture. Tutsi is even built on another cow, which you cannot see. Now I have just researched Gunpowder, as you can see Batum is right next to a source of Saltpeter. There are a few other cities that weren't possible to demand from the AI. I bet that later on they end up having an "unseen" resource too. At least Batum was built in the right spot for my pattern... I was going to hit the Russians once I got to Military Tradition anyways.
 Attachment: saltpeter.jpg
This has been downloaded 1083 time(s).
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Psycho_Mantis
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Leading the forces of Mother Russia into battle
Jan 2002
time: 21:17
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What do you mean the AI knows your unit disposition?
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Marquis de Sodaq
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... no, a Marquis.
Jul 2000
time: 23:17
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Aeson, this proves what I'd suspected from the start, that the AI knows the terrain before it sees it. A similar anecdote: I've started my third game on the Marla map - tho I know world geography, I did not seek out the resources before playing. After map exchanges and middle ages, I noticed that the exact same tile in NW Canada was settled. Twice by the americans, once by the Iroquois. This is far from an appealing site at first glance, and far from where they had settled up to that point. I pop open the editor, look at the map, et voila! Uranium and coal next to it. (or was it aluminum?)
In one of the games, I was the Aztecs. I exiled the americans to the tundra.  In peace negotiations, they were willing to part with everything - gold and all towns - except that one town with the as-yet-unseen resources.
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Psycho_Mantis
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Leading the forces of Mother Russia into battle
Jan 2002
time: 21:17
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Yeah, it does look like the computer cheats...
I still dont know what you mean about it knowing your unit disposition, though.
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barefootbadass
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quote:
Originally posted by vmxa1
The use of "active" to check trade status requires contact, this should not be. We should be able to check on our own trades with out contacting the AI. A busines would look at its own auditors or contracts, not call the other company to get this type of data. Since they info on contact screen does not require any special gathering, it should be available on my trade advisor screen without contact. I want to know if they have any money before I waste time contacting them. |
That would be good, maybe in the trade screen where it shows you are trading for 'fine chinese furs' or something, it could show how many turns the deal has left. In fact I'm not sure that this feature isn't in the trade screen, I'll check tonight, its one of those things like the military screen to find out the government type of a civ that isn't exactly documented that you had to stumble on or read about in the forums.
I've always been able to renegotiate if the ai contacts me saying they don't want to continue the deal. If they trade it to someone else(after it has expired) it just tells me that I've lost my supply with no contact. If you are contacted when this happens and it has been traded then it is probably a bug.
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soxs
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From the few games I have played on a Extremly Large Map with big islands and with 8 civs, the 6 of the 8 civs get there own island and the 7th gets stuck with me on my small island. Any one else noticed that or did I just get unlucky a few times?
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Unregistered
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Well, Soren did say in one of the chats that the ai can 'see' the whole map, including your troop dispositions. I would assume this also includes strategic resources, although he didn't mention them specifically. He went on to say that if they can't 'see' the map, then all they do is sit where they are. So giving them this 'cheat' was necessary to make them competitive with not only the human player, but themselves. Given all the natural advantages we as people have, I don't have a problem with it as a 'cheat'.
As one poster on another thread put it (sorry, I've forgotten who) "Playing the ai is like beating up on the retarded!" And you know what? He's absolutely right. Which is why I'll probably be putting civIII down soon & moving on to something else. Maybe I'll try again when a pbem option becomes available. (I don't know that I'd like realtime multiplayer, turns take too long & schedualing time w/ people to play is almost impossible for me)
Anyway,
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solo
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Lowell, MA USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:17
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One question for Willem and Zachriel:
Did the AI have the technology yet for those resources it did not go for? In my experience so far, they have zeroed in on resources, but now that I think about it, they might have had the technology to "see" them at the time of zeroing activity.
Aeson's experience suggests they know where unseen resources are, too, but it may just be a coincidence due to the fact that smaller CivIII maps result in all areas being setlled fairly quickly into the game. However Aeson IS having a lot of success by using the theory that the AI do know in advance where resources are.
Another factor to consider is the scarcity of a resource. The AI may not bother about an unseen one or bunch, if they already have their own copy from another tile in their possession.
One thing for sure, is that more evidence needs to be collected while playing games, before forming any conclusions.
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24-01-2002 22:42
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