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pchang
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Cupertino?
Aug 1999
time: 05:17
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I too have ammased about 200 units through pop rushing. But, I never do it on anything larger than a standard map. This is because it just gets too tedious. In fact, I pretty much limit my pop rushing games to small or tiny maps. (On tiny maps, I've conquered the world with about 60 units). In fact, to combat the worker tedium, I join them to my pop rushing cities to spped up the rate at which I'm cranking out units. Also, during the last part of the game when I know I'm going to win, I just automated workers. I don't care any more that they aren't being optimally used.
PS You cannot do step rushing. Once you rush, you are forced to build whatever was rushed.
Last edited by pchang on 05-02-2002 at 05:59
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WFHermans
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Thanks so much all you generals for explaining this to poor sergeant me....I always got stuck with those faraway cities that had 1 shield production and were 6 large, forever in revolution.
Once I gave away a 6 population city in the middle of my empire to some almost destroyed Persian civ and it dwindled to a one population civ in a few turns. Now I finally understand why.
I also bring this subject up to show a rare event that I first considered another cool AI cheat (and I love them, don't you mes with them Firaxis) but proved to be a bug because it crashed the game (get rid of that, Firaxis!).
Here's what happened. After chasing the Persians all over the map (I play the game not to get "Victory Points" but as a role playing game, the Persians attacked me without provocation so I spent the rest of the Ancient period exterminating them) I finally took their last city, but the Persians were still in the Diplomacy Screen. The next thousand or so years they even made some money by trading maps. It is not clear WHY they were still around, and what units they still had.
Anyway after those 1,000 or so years someone else declared war on the Persians, or the other way round. The Persians were destroyed. Then after loading a saved game, it showed some message about "Cities not correct", AND EVERY CITY ON THE MAP HAD DISAPPEARED! The units were still standing there, costing huge amounts of gold with no support. What had happened....an invasion of UFOs that destroyed each and every city? A plague wiping out all cities? I considered it great fun....but at the end of the turn the game crashed.
So that's why I had to reload, give the Persians a city. After this city was conquered normally and the Persian civ was destroyed in a normal way I had no problems.
So my question, is it possible fo a civilization to live on when it doesn't have a city left? After all they also start the game with no city....
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SanPellegrino
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WFHermans, exactly the same thing happened to me, Japanese were dead finally, than "Failure to laod city blah blah", the savegame was broken. But then patch came out and it fixed it! Cities were back and I finished that game. Do you use a pre-patched version?
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:17
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Aeson,
I understand takin' it slow... that's how I approach my Marla Map game (which I haven't touched in a week).
Let me ask you this: once you're done beating on the AI (or are you never done w/that?), how in the WORLD are you going to keep all those oppressed cities happy ("Come see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help, I'm being repressed!")? The ones you've been poprushing horsemen and impi out of, I mean. The happiness penalty is cumulative, right? 20 turns of unhappiness per rush?
I think the most poprushing I've ever done was 3 or 4x in one town (temple, library, units, I think). And that town was pissed at me for a long time.
Do you intend to ever switch out of despotism, or no? Once you lose the martial law benifit of garrisons, won't half your cities go into disorder?
-Arrian
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solo
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Lowell, MA USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:17
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Many thanks to Aeson for that summary of cheats and counters that we know of so far. It was something I was planning to do when this thread dropped off the screen, so players could have a handy reference. Care to be in charge of doing this again, when all is done, Aeson?
I haven't seen all the cities on a map disappear, as reported by WFHermans, but this had me ROTFLMAO. (Now I finally get to use that abbreviation having just recently found out what it means!). I've had AI's remain in the game after all their cities had been captured and was puzzled by this, so thanks to Sir Ralph for making sense out of what happened.
No one should take my remark about the AI seeming invulnerable to barbarian attacks too seriously, either. I'm sure the AI DO lose a battle now and then to the barbs. However, my Zulu story did not stretch the truth at all, and I stand by it.
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WFHermans
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Thanks Aeson and Sir Ralph for patiently explaining everything. So the surviving civ after losing its last city and subsequent destruction of every city was a pre-patch bug...anyway I would like the civs to live on until each and every city and unit has been taken or destroyed, and even then i would like them to be able come to make a comeback after a revolution, Even civ 1 had this, well that was different though, a civ could spawn a new civ,
Aeson: Do you consider becoming Communist after Despotism?
About the Barbarians, I had some luck fighting against huge stacks too. Maybe because I play only play Regent level where all civs are supposed to produce equally. But it seems they always go after my cities instead of the AIs. Did anyone ever see an AI city sacked by Barbarians?
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Aeson
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orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:17
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I really can't find a good use for Communism that isn't better filled by a different government type. I tend to have larger empires, and corruption is horrendous everywhere in Communism. Having 50%+ corruption in my "producing" cities is just insane. Definitely not worth the shield or two that "worthless" cities will produce. I try to only make one government switch the whole game when not playing a Religious Civ. If I'm done pop-rushing, but still have future wars planned, I like Monarchy. Otherwise the Republic is a good choice. Democracy really doesn't add much, and the threat of extra war weariness offsets its worth. I would have liked to see a government system like that from SMAC migrate to the Civ series, but oh well. As it is, Despotism is used to win the game, Republic/Democracy for score, Monarchy for 'show' (Military Might, Egotism, ie. be the King), and Communism for masochists.
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Willem
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Canada
Dec 2001
time: 00:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Aeson
I really can't find a good use for Communism that isn't better filled by a different government type. I tend to have larger empires, and corruption is horrendous everywhere in Communism. Having 50%+ corruption in my "producing" cities is just insane. Definitely not worth the shield or two that "worthless" cities will produce. I try to only make one government switch the whole game when not playing a Religious Civ. If I'm done pop-rushing, but still have future wars planned, I like Monarchy. Otherwise the Republic is a good choice. Democracy really doesn't add much, and the threat of extra war weariness offsets its worth. I would have liked to see a government system like that from SMAC migrate to the Civ series, but oh well. As it is, Despotism is used to win the game, Republic/Democracy for score, Monarchy for 'show' (Military Might, Egotism, ie. be the King), and Communism for masochists. |
You might try adding your own. There's a thread around where someone has added Fascism. Some interesting ideas that I've incorporated into Dictatorship. It's sort of in between Democracy and Communism, with some of the aspects of a Republic. I've given it to three civs as their prefered government. I haven't played it out yet to see how it works though, no doubt I'll have to do some tweaking.
I've sort of been bouncing around with idea of a Utopian Socialist gov as well, or maybe Democratic Socialist, like some of the European systems. I'm not sure whether the editor gives me enough tools for that though.
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Aeson
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orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:17
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I'm sorry if that sounded like I was insulting your suggestion, that wasn't what I meant at all. A great part of Civ 2 was the easy customization of the game, though I haven't done much so far with the Civ 3 editor. I just initially thought you were commenting on my analysis of the in game governments instead of the SMAC reference.
The SMAC system I refered to was an in game system. Through different advances you were able to change social, scientific, economic, and military agendas that would affect commerce, military abilities, research, and environmental interaction. It's been a while since I've played, but I think there were 4 options in 4 categories or something like that. Giving 256 different combinations that would make up the social system. Granted that only a handful of the combinations were truely useful, but still it was fun to experiment with. The Unit Workshop had even more options, ranging from armor, weapons, the base unit type, powerplant, and special bonuses. Literally thousands of possible unit designs were available.
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Willem
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Canada
Dec 2001
time: 00:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Aeson
I'm sorry if that sounded like I was insulting your suggestion, that wasn't what I meant at all. A great part of Civ 2 was the easy customization of the game, though I haven't done much so far with the Civ 3 editor. I just initially thought you were commenting on my analysis of the in game governments instead of the SMAC reference.
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I just got the impression that you were hoping for more options and made a suggestion that might offer you one. A new government form is one thing that the default editor will let you add, so you don't have to be limited to just two modern ones.
quote:
Originally posted by Aeson
The SMAC system I refered to was an in game system. Through different advances you were able to change social, scientific, economic, and military agendas that would affect commerce, military abilities, research, and environmental interaction. It's been a while since I've played, but I think there were 4 options in 4 categories or something like that. Giving 256 different combinations that would make up the social system. Granted that only a handful of the combinations were truely useful, but still it was fun to experiment with. The Unit Workshop had even more options, ranging from armor, weapons, the base unit type, powerplant, and special bonuses. Literally thousands of possible unit designs were available. |
Yes I'm familiar with SMAC. My favourite part was the workshop. I did a lot of experimenting with unit abilities, and had a lot of fun in the process. I've been tempted lately to go back to playing that again.
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Ismelstar
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quote:
Originally posted by Solo
In one of my own games I had a small island to myself. Just three tiles of it were beyond by borders, one of them containing a horse resource. The AI made a beeline for this but ignored the other two. Just as an experiment, I replayed part of that game, and parked a warrior on that tile early on, but left the other two wide open. None of the AI bothered with those other two. Backtracking again a few times, whenever I left the horse tile open, it was snatched up quickly by one of the AI, instead of either of the resourceless tiles.
In another game, where I was on a small island, I had an iron resource on it away from my borders, and sure enough, that was the unclaimed portion of the island that the AI went after first with their settlers. |
quote:
Originally posted by Zachriel
The AI will settle all available spaces on the map, including what many may not consider promising terrain. It is important to spread your culture umbrella over every possible square of the map. |
This is exactly the problem. I once was on a large island by myself. I had killed off (VERY early) the other two civs on the island.
The boat of another civ camie around the hook of my island, rather far away from the two open spots. I immediately covered the two open spots with warriors and the civ boat turned around! Even though there was no way for it to "see" that I had open land. In fact, the next turn I moved one of my warriors warrior off the empty spot and the civ boat turned back around and made a B-line for the open land.
I made sure I hadn't shared my maps with anyone and none of the civs had been to that part of my island. It seemed like the AI civs, know instantly where all available spots are on your land. But you have to sail meticulously half way around the world to discover empty spots on their land.
The above tactic could be used to a slight advantage, though. Every turn I would alternately move the warrior on and off that one square of land. The AI civs would keep turning around their boats every turn. I had three boats from three different civs held up this way, while I calmly sailed my galleys out to discover new islands to settle.
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solo
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Lowell, MA USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:17
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Yes, when the AI do something tricky, you can often use their very predictable behavior to your own advantage, or for your own amusement, too! In the long run, they end up losing out by trying to take advantage of their extra knowledge.
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05-02-2002 04:33
The first population point is worth up to 39 shields, then it switches to 20. You can use "step" rushing for larger builds, bypassing the production decrease. For example, to rush a Knight (70 shields), first rush a Longbowman (40 shields). Then switch to a Knight and rush the rest. Trying to rush a unit or improvement that has just been started (no current shields) doubles the population cost. This isn't a big deal as usually it takes a few turns for a city to grow again anyways, and at least a few shields will be ready before it is time to rush again.
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