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Richard Bruns
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NC, USA
Nov 1999
time: 06:17
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To answer the title question: I would love for our POW's to be treated the way the prisoners in Cuba are being treated. It doesn't get much better than that. They live in better conditions that most people in third world countries; the only thing it lacks is climate control but they really don't need that because the weather is pretty mild now.
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Ginger Elvis
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ENGLAND
Jan 2002
time: 05:17
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WAsn't it Dostoyevsky who said you can judge a country by the state of it's jails.
Whether or not the treatment of these POW's/terrorists/people fighting a war on their home turf for something they believe in, is fair or humane, the fact remains that the USA has learnt nothing from this whole situation.
The Trade Centre bombings were horrific, but bombing one ofthe weakest nations in the world to its knees made the US govt as bad as the terroists who started it. They killed civilians too you know.
The world perception is one of distrust and even disgust apart from the ignorant element who hates everything that doesn't fit into their own ideas.
America must decide if it still wants to be seen as the bully of the world or whether it can move into a more civilised age. They still have the death penalty for crying out loud.
there's no point in citing previous cruelties by various nations as there isn't a single country in existence who hasn't mistreated another in some way.
As the major economic, military and dare I say cultural power in the world its time to stop living in some fantasy and realise that the rest of the world are seriously pissed at American arrogance.
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Roland
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Auf'm Jahrmarkt :(
May 1999
time: 06:17
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Mike:
"Al Qaeda is an autonomous force. Even where Taleban leaders/fighters surrendered, Al Qaeda leaders/fighters continued to fight, not recognizing orders or command authority from the Taleban. This was demonstrated repeatedly."
No big deal. In late WW2, Wehrmacht officers again and agian disobeyed Hitler or Gauleiter orders, like the Nero-order. Or by surrendering. Breakdown of command structures does not exclude you from POW protection.
"So any group of people fighting for whatever reason is a "party to the conflict" under your interpretation of the Geneva Convention?"
Not any group. Problem is that yes, the convention is open to interpretation. We'll also not get very far on a literal interpretation (just as with say the US constitution) - there are several conventions, there is customary law, there are general principles of law, case law, and there may be authority (considering how old some of this is).
If you want a detailed debate about this, we'd both have to do some reading. All I say is that especially given the intertwined nature of the Taliban-AlQuaeda relationship, one can not rule out prima vista that some qualify as POW. Where you take the confidence to proclaim with legal certitude a "not" is beyond me - but then, I'm no consultant. 
"We finally agree on something."
I'm confident we'll both survive it.
And Horsie, you still haven't said what your actual complaint is. If you think the transport precautions were overdone, why don't you volunteer as steward for a 1st class flight with prisoners, Masar-i-Sharif style ?
Chris:
With replies as cunning as yours, I'll go to the Kindergarten to find a more challanging debate. Btw, you are getting personal all the time, but when you switch to "look Ma, no brains" mode, you don't seem to realise that.
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Lonestar
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AECCP Dark Lord of the Sith
Aug 2000
time: 00:17
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quote:
Each prisoner has been given:
US army standard-issue 2cm-thick foam sleeping mat, one blanket, two buckets, a one quart canteen
Two orange boiler suits, one pair flip-flops
Two bath towels, one for washing, one for use as a prayer mat
A washcloth, toothpaste, soap, shampoo
A copy of the Koran
Prisoners are served three meals a day - all "culturally appropriate":
Breakfast - typically bread, cream cheese, an orange, a pastry, a roll, a bottle of water
Lunch - typically a box of cereal, two cereal bars, a packet of peanuts, one packet crisps, one packet raisins, a bottle of water
Evening meal - typically white rice, red beans, a banana, bread, a bottle of water.
The detainees' daily routine:
Breakfast followed by shower opportunity and personal time
Doctor visits to address any medical issues
Lunch followed by shower opportunity and personal time
Exercise period
Mail call - pens and paper are provided for limited time, letters may be written under supervision, all pens are collected afterwards
Dinner followed by shower opportunity
Typical weather:
Sunny with temperatures ranging from 22C at night to around 28C maximum during the day |
Doesn't sound to bad to me. In fact, I bet the NA qould've given the prisoners none of the above...
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Chris 62
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But I'm feeling MUCH better now
Jan 2001
time: 00:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Roland
Chris:
With replies as cunning as yours, I'll go to the Kindergarten to find a more challanging debate. Btw, you are getting personal all the time, but when you switch to "look Ma, no brains" mode, you don't seem to realise that. |
Hmm, the law requirement in the USA includes kindergarten through college, but in Austria, you don't even get past Kindergarten.
No wonder things are as they are there. 
I never attack anyone, I am ever attacked, because I say my mind, unfettered by poltical corectness and false compasion.
It would be simple for me to say nice flowery things about this and other situations, to garner friends and live in an air of friendship, but that would all be lies.
I write what I think, and have the courage to take the heat.
Even though I find your anti-usa slant annoying, I considered you a fair man.
I no longer feel that way.
All of you, wake up and smell the coffee, these sh1theads are killers, that would murder you in a heartbeat, and we will deal with them accordingly.
They aern't soldiers, they are animals, mad dogs, and we will put them down.
And that is the will of the people of the USA, look at any opinion poll.
You can stick your morality where the sun don't shine (which also happens to be where friend Rollie pulls most of his answers from, BTW), we have had enough of "kid" gloves. This is kill or be killed.
They lost.
End of story.
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Rogan Josh
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris 62
All of you, wake up and smell the coffee, these sh1theads are killers, that would murder you in a heartbeat, and we will deal with them accordingly.
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Don't you think the Islamic fundamentalists might be saying the same thing about you?
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Chris 62
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But I'm feeling MUCH better now
Jan 2001
time: 00:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Rogan Josh
Don't you think the Islamic fundamentalists might be saying the same thing about you? |
When I go about blowing up buildings and smashing planes, you may have a slight point, but not before.
quote:
They're not "mad dogs," and they're no more "animals" than anyone else. Dehumanizing your enemy makes fighting him a much easier job, but that doesn't make the statements one makes about him any truer. |
And yet another of the "hate Chris" brigade is heard from.
Did they:
Join a terrorist organization with the express purpose of killing those that don't bow to their demands?
Hide in caves in a nation that was not their own, serving a man who preaches only hate and death to those who don't agree with him?
Did they not try to kill everyone they could, they they deemed unworthy?
Did they not state they would try to crash the planes they were being flown to Cuba in?
Did they not swear to kill an American while in captivity?
Your compassion seems strangly out of place in light of these facts, now doesn't it? 
Animals they are, and yet we still treat em better then they idiot they followed, the edtorial in the Mirror was factually incorrect, and incredibly biased, but you wouldn't see that, now would you?
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Faeelin
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Tau Ceti
Oct 2001
time: 05:17
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A lot of the people here seem to be a little slow, so I"ll explain why we've been leery of giving them pow status. If we give them that, we can't interrogate them, according to the Geneva convention.
That convention, BTW, was designed to deal with a world where people didn't crash into buildings for their god. it's also almost 100 years old. So I sugest that we update the convention. Since, you know, things have changed since then.
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KrazyHorse
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Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Faeelin
A lot of the people here seem to be a little slow, so I"ll explain why we've been leery of giving them pow status. If we give them that, we can't interrogate them, according to the Geneva convention.
That convention, BTW, was designed to deal with a world where people didn't crash into buildings for their god. it's also almost 100 years old. So I sugest that we update the convention. Since, you know, things have changed since then. |
When did the Geneva convention ever state that you can't interrogate POWs? It only says that you can't compel them to answer, except for their name, rank, and sexual orientation.
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MichaeltheGreat
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
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mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:17
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
When did the Geneva convention ever state that you can't interrogate POWs? It only says that you can't compel them to answer, except for their name, rank, and sexual orientation. |
"Article 17
Every prisoner of war, when questioned on the subject, is bound to give only his surname, first names and rank, date of birth, and army, regimental, personal or serial number, or failing this, equivalent information. If he wilfully infringes this rule, he may render himself liable to a restriction of the privileges accorded to his rank or status.
Each Party to a conflict is required to furnish the persons under its jurisdiction who are liable to become prisoners of war, with an identity card showing the owner's surname, first names, rank, army, regimental, personal or serial number or equivalent information, and date of birth. The identity card may, furthermore, bear the signature or the fingerprints, or both, of the owner, and may bear, as well, any other information the Party to the conflict may wish to add concerning persons belonging to its armed forces. As far as possible the card shall measure 6.5 x 10 cm. and shall be issued in duplicate. The identity card shall be shown by the prisoner of war upon demand, but may in no case be taken away from him.
No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to any unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind."
Routine law enforcement custodial interrogations fall under the "any other form of coercion" - you can't even discuss charging them criminally and offering a plea bargain for cooperation.
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22-01-2002 04:55
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