28-06-2002 02:15									#91
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t48 R-batle pods, 3rd AF, HW biosphere
t49 buy AF on 3rd (waited to make it cheaper)
t50 srt bio on 2nd and 3rd ( 2nd is 3/6 and 3rd is 2/3)
t51 HW make spy (paranoid)
t52 scout got tech for mass driver (not bad), 2nd house, 3rd marine
t53 R-academy

Thoughts- since i can not build a ship yet I may as well get SpaceAc for when I will.
Likely I would be wise to get a colony ship or a cruiser going, I just had to do it at this point and it may be why I fail at imposible so often. Anyway got to get some other things done now. This is a sure way others can follow the process as nothing useful is left out (I hope).

Last edited by vmxa1 on 30-06-2002 at 04:36

	28-06-2002 03:25									#92
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Those are right out of the game I fired up at the time (today) to give an example. I have that game going now. They do men 3510.0 or 35150.0. I know this as I have seen a few of them and was able to duplicate the early steps. If they were talking about 36xx.x then I take back all my protest. The game is setting at 3505.3 now as I had to do my floors and ride my lifecycle.

Last edited by vmxa1 on 30-06-2002 at 04:38

	28-06-2002 04:22									#93
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t57 spy done make another, R-f. rifle
t60 Hire Crassis, R-fusion drive
t61 srt acad on HW
t64 R-d. fuel cell
t66 srt colony ship, moved sci to worker, reassign workers on Nasin III to sci
t69 R-pollution processor, contact Mrrs
t72 spy killed
t80 send c-ship out, srt crusier (nuc FST & HA)
t82 reassigned to make star base on Nasin II/III colonized SungI, Sung II splinter (hot dog), srt AF on both
t83 R-Ecm Jammer (907BC piled up)
t87 Sung II srt PP
t88 R-Tach Comm
t90 hire Galis
t93 R-space port
t95 Sung II srt RL
t96 HW srt PP, also srt on II/III
t97 Sung I srt marine, Nazin I srt PP
t98 HW srt Cruiser (refit to have Ecm and Mirv), Sung II srt Bio
(whoops, I may have bought one or two items after a day on Sung, can't recall)

So I am at turn 98 and just getting going. I would now start to move hard. In a MP game one could get humans to resign when they see the hand writting, but the AI will have to be conquered or voted out. With 7 races, it will take time, more than 50 turns. If tele, it would/could be easier, but still in a large universe, that is a lot of space to cover and defend. I will soon see if anyone shows up with over whelming force before I can gear up, that is my main concern now. I will start with my auxilary planets in the plan to make a bunch of spies and steal to get the holes filled. If that works and it will if I survive, I will get out in front with the Dems boost to research and production. Add in the +1 I took as a trait and I will be in chips and buying stuff. Anyway at this junction, I may be ok or I may be drawing dead.

Last edited by vmxa1 on 30-06-2002 at 04:40

	28-06-2002 18:27									#94
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Excellent Vmxa1!

Now I have a few questions.

I noticed that you picked Liv and Dem. I've forgotten what exactly Liv is, but isn't it you need not atmosphere and no food??
Therefore, you can put all of you workers on research and production which gives you all of your dem bonuses. Plus the mineral rich selection maximized that! Wow, that is pretty powerful now that I think about it.

I also notice that you went for +1 prod instead of +1 research. Interesting....

With the Liv and Dem and mineral bonuses you are getting things way before I would ever get them. However, it looks like you decided upon selections that maximized your production and research.

Anyway, keep on with the summary. Just give us the highlights at this point, I think that I've learned a lot already. I'd like to see another game where you do not choose liv, dem or min rich.

R:PM

	28-06-2002 20:23									#95
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I did it this way to get Garths race the best shot I could. The production was because I tend to have trouble getting things built early and I will have plenty of research anyway. Liv is a sillicoid, they eat rocks, so they need no food. These allows me to grab hostile planets which are rich/ultrarich. The Dem give +50 to sci and prod, so the race is a super sillicoid. No need to make freighters until you want to transport pop, so you need just a few. The hydro/biosphere choice does not happen, you get only bio.

	28-06-2002 20:53									#96
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The individual research choices are at times open to debate. In some cases, I put off a given choice, as I knew I could not use it yet. So what I am saying is it could be that I could have chosen better. Anyway I keep detail logs until around t160 and then note only research and steal until t279 where I got Orion and t280 where I got Evolution. There I dropped LIV and got Cyber and Warlord, +spy and dumpped -ship defence. That caused me to go -89 food. I had to move people to farm and build the weather station and by t281 I was plus food with about 7 or 8 pop. Orion gave X-armor so I could go to war. Stopped at t442 last night (2am). The game is a lock, but it is very slow taking planets as I have no AMC or Arm Barracks. I have to surpress lots of rebels. I finally got smart on that end, by using Unload transport to fill up the marine count to the max level or nearly so. All tech is done and I am well into hyper tech. I have captured tech and stole tech and have many of the missing pieces, including Battlestations and Star Forts (can you say command points). I do not have titan or doom construction, but my BB have 1500 arm and 500 structure, class X shields, 15 plasma cannon with HV and 6 HV disrupter cannons, so I can crush titans and planets. If I had titans I would add a stellar converter to destroy planets and prevent recolonization (yeah stole or capture SC too). I have max spies on defence and about 40 on the two races I am at war with and adding a few each turn. I could afford to do more, but I am too lazy. You have to watch out as I do not know what happens to spies you make when you have 63 already, it seems they disappear.

	28-06-2002 21:13									#97
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It looks like I wasted the effort to research and build defence, such as ground batteries as no one ever attacked me, but then it could be that is why. Now they can't.
t99 Naz2 spy
t100 naz1 space acad
t101 naz2 " " , Sung II starbase
t102 R-cloning center, Naz1 space port
Note I often put up SP before it is really useful.
t103 Sung1 PP (polluction proicessor
t104 Naz2 sp, naz1 move 3 to sci srt spy
t105 Naz2 spy
t108 R-n, scanner, NazII trade movework to sci, nazIII SP
t109 Sung srt SP, attacked Ameba @ Pindar
t111 HW srt colony ship
t114 R-robominer, SungII srt clone (RP 115
t116 Sung I srt clone
t118 Sung II srt SP, naz I spy
t119 Naz3 c-ship to Pindar (+5 CP, Mrrs make contact I never get dip relations with any race. contact Klacs
dropped workto sci , make spy
t120 R-stabilizer (beam def needed
t121 Sung II srt robo, Naz2 srt robo, colonize Pindar III srt AF
t122 Contact Meks, Sung I srt Lab, buy AF on Pindar.
I tend to buy a item on the second day until I have more than 10000 BC piled up, unless required.
t123 hire HourI, Pindar srt Marine

	28-06-2002 21:25									#98
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t124 naz3 (HW) srt robo move 1 sci to prod, naz1 srt obo, sung2 srt spy move 2 spis to Mrrs
t125 contact Tril
t126 R-n. scanner, NazII spy, Sung2 spy, buy barracks on Pindar
t127 srt robo (whoops where?
t128 sung2 spy done, move work to sci
t129 Naz2 srt freighter to move pop
t130 naz2 spy, sung 2 lab, HW srt c-ship mov1 pop to Pindar
t132 sung1 bio, buy robo@ Pindar
t133 R-supercomputer, contact Humans, Naz2 spy, Pindar srt PP, move spy
t134 steal I. fuel cells, Gnolam contact and say want to form bond but can not do any dip only war/surrender, naz1 done, Sung1srtstarbase, buy PP @ Pindar (rp 181
t135 Vote and I am on the left, Pindar srt clone, Naz2 spy
So you see I am building up the new planet and cranking out spies. Will start built capitol ships soon. Then just keep making spies and ships, grab a new planet when I can.

	28-06-2002 22:50									#99
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Excellent insight, thanks Vmxa1. So when folks are talking about winning by turn 150, what is the secret....Taking out the Antereans? Small map??? I mean, even though you kicked serious booty, your still not even done by T450...I still do not get it?

	28-06-2002 23:10									#100
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My record is winning by turn... 7. Yup. 7.

Will consider letting you guys in on my strategy if you offer enough cash incentives!

	28-06-2002 23:50									#101
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My log isn't as detatiled as vmxa1's, but here we go.

Race Creative, Subterranean, telepathic/ lowg, -spy, -GC

Impossible, huge, 8 players, average start, organic rich.

Note: for techs researched I am only listint one from the set.

5 First Colony
10 got tech, reinforced hull
22 got tech, auto factories
35 got tech, hydro farms
46 got tech, research lab
58 meet Mrrshans, got a trade deal
74 got tech, neural Scanner
79 research treaty Mrrshans
91 got tech, Supercomputer
93 got tech, fusion rifle
98 got tech, battle scanner
101 got tech, battle pods
104 got tech, class 1 shields
108 got tech, tritanium armor
112 got tech, fusion drive
118 built ship (cruiser)
119 got tech, pollution processor
125 got tech, spaceport
133 got tech, robominers
built colony base
135 got tech, space academy
137 built ship (cruiser)
144 built colony ship
147 founded new colony
148 got tech, atmos renewer
154 built colony ship
155 got tech, alien control center
157 founded new colony
built colony base
162 got tech, neutron blaster
165 built ship(cruiser)
168 Declare war on Mrrshans
Take colony, and planetary gravity generator
Meet Sakkaras
170 Take Colony
Meet Klakons
172 Built ship(cruiser)
173 Take Colony
Got tech, graviton beam
174 Take Colony, and recyclotron
Meet Sillicoids
175 Take Mrrshan Home World
176 Take Colony
177 Take Colony
179 Got tech, Microbiotics
180 Bomb colony, Mrrshans Dead

Sorry I didn't take note of all my builds, but that would have taken too much work. I will note that in the early game I got to hire two leaders with the +5 research which was nice. Plus I got a megawealth leader.

At this time I still have my 4 cruisers, I am losing money big time but that will fix itself as I grow. Since only the klackons have planetary defences I can roll either the Sakkara, or sillicoids next. I might ordinarly take a small breather next, but since you want a fast kill this is the best game set-up I have had for that in a long time.

	28-06-2002 23:54									#102
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Lets try and attach some saves.

Ok they are zipped and are turn 0, a little after turn 100(I forgot to save right on 100), and turn 180 when I finished the Mrrshans.

Attachment: saves.zip
This has been downloaded 9 time(s).

	29-06-2002 00:04									#103
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Wow, great! Thanks Garth. Hopefully I can follow along. Can you provide any insight into win by T150.

Moom,

get real!

	29-06-2002 00:11									#104
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Insight, yeah small galaxy, advanced tech. I'll do that later in the weekend.

If you are looking at the saves, don't mind the strange homeworld names, when I restored the races after using the meltpot editor they didn't go back to normal. I don't know why. Probably because I was playing with that version 1.32 patch that was posted here. At least the races went back to normal.

	29-06-2002 00:16									#105
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Well that would be the fast way to win, I would think as you can not get a vote that that early (well maybe if charismatic and stuff). I tend not to play with Anties as they are just bore, unless you are Kinzki or how ever you spell it. Anyway I do not bother capturing ships, I seledom have any of the marine type boost and almost alway take -combat. No assault shuttles and so on.

Moom, is it another one the CivIII deals where you use the editor? I know you can make a high score in Civ3 by making a second or first day win. One AI Civ on a map where only one city can be founded and you go first.

Whoops, I do not see a legit way to get antarians in 120 or so days either as you need D. Portal tech and then build it. We will just have await a post with the logs from the masters.

	29-06-2002 00:39									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Garth Vader Insight, yeah small galaxy, advanced tech. I'll do that later in the weekend. If you are looking at the saves, don't mind the strange homeworld names, when I restored the races after using the meltpot editor they didn't go back to normal. I don't know why. Probably because I was playing with that version 1.32 patch that was posted here. At least the races went back to normal.

Yeah, I figured it would have to be that....How many baddies?

The way that you guys play, it does seem possible. But, I was in Missouri once, you just gonna have to show me!

Oh and Damn, you are good Garth....Something about your avatar makes me not to want to ask you too many questions though.

	29-06-2002 00:41									#107
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Moom, is it another one the CivIII deals where you use the editor? I know you can make a high score in Civ3 by making a second or first day win. One AI Civ on a map where only one city can be founded and you go first.

I agree, got to be a bug, and I'm not really interested in that.

	29-06-2002 00:58									#108
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Moom, is it another one the CivIII deals where you use the editor? I know you can make a high score in Civ3 by making a second or first day win. One AI Civ on a map where only one city can be founded and you go first.

Heck, no. If I wanted to mess with editors, I'd have to be really stupid not to manage a win the first turn, no?

I'm talking about a genuine turn 7 victory with the game proper, no cheats.

	29-06-2002 01:24									#109
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hmmm...telepahic race against one opponent in a small universe??

	29-06-2002 02:17									#110
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Oh and Damn, you are good Garth....Something about your avatar makes me not to want to ask you too many questions though.

Ask any questions you want

Game isn't over yet, but more logs.

187 got tech, Terraforming
Killed monster, got splinter colony
188 Met Psilons, trade deal
192 Took Sakkra colony, war declared
194 Took Sakkra Home world, got planetary stock exchange, phasor
Met Alkari, trade deal
195 Took Colony, got subspace communications
196 Took Colony
Sillicoids declare war
197 got tech, rad shield
199 Took 2 colonies
Met Gnolams
200 Took Colony, got astro university
201 Took Colony
202 Klackons ask for tribute, I tell them where to go and that I'd be glad to send them there
205 Took Colony, Sakkra dead
207 got tech, zortium armor
214 Klackons declare war

At this point I am stopping the log except for eliminations. I had hoped to be finished by 250, but probably won't make that. I have begun rolling the Sillicoids, after that the Klackons. I shouldn't be too much later than 250, although if I can win on the vote sooner, I guess I'll take it

	29-06-2002 02:48									#111
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GV that will be good. Anyway t180 looks reasonable to me. As I said, I did not look real close. Did the AI steal a lot from you? You will have you hands full with that negative cash flow, if they decide to give you some attention.

Last edited by vmxa1 on 29-06-2002 at 02:58

	29-06-2002 03:14									#112
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Garth,

Still excellent, you really push the war envelope.
On early turns, are you building some of the building that you are researching?

	29-06-2002 04:04									#113
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I messed around with the save1 up to t104 so far, but I haterandom events. I got hit with loss research and space flux so far, while the AI got derelic ship and two discoveries and a wealthy merch. No contact yet either, since no travel.

	29-06-2002 15:17									#114
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quote: Originally posted by RPMisCOOL hmmm...telepahic race against one opponent in a small universe??

Nope.

	30-06-2002 03:31									#115
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Game is over

228 Eliminated Sillicoids
Declared war on Gnolams
231 Gnolams Eliminated
232 Klackons Eliminated
235 Alkari declare war (I had demanded a system )
238 Won on vote 66 out of 78

On early turns, are you building some of the building that you are researching?

Yes, I try and get everything built before I do anything with a colony, except for emergencies of course.

Did the AI steal a lot from you? You will have you hands full with that negative cash flow, if they decide to give you some attention.

Not at all. I asked somebody to stop, and they did. A number of races had spies trying but I guess my 6 defensive spies worked.

The cash flow problem sucked for a while, I had to have a number of colonies on trade goods, but once I got the trade deals with the Alkari and Psilons and all the high pop Sakkra planets had all their cash buildings everything was fine.


I got hit with loss research and space flux so far, while the AI got derelic ship and two discoveries and a wealthy merch.

Interesting, I got an industrial accident and antarans a few times, and the AI got the derelict ship and 800bc from the merchant.

	30-06-2002 03:51									#116
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Ok, here's the 7-turn strategy:

1) Choose adv start, small univ, organics rich, max opponents.

2) Choose Sakkra picture - edit race to Subterranean + Charismatic (and whatever else you feel like)

Start game:

On first turn, establish contact with everyone (if somebody isn't in range - go in their direction fast!) and bribe your way to treaties - give em tech, cash, heck, even tributes if you have to.

Hope the Sillies are in - they are large and repulsive.

Wait for election - Bang! Instawin!

Earliest election I ever got this way was turn 7.

	30-06-2002 04:31									#117
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RPM, sorry I must have been in afog for awhile as I failed to see all of the post. You asked:
"Question:
What do you mean by landing a colony ship by T25???

on prewarp, it takes ~20 turns just to research
on average, you have one to start and usually not much to check out in terms of reachable systems. I usually get mine down in less than 10. Although you could prescout and restart and get a jump.

So no cheating allowed. Cheating is defined as saving , playing, then going back, or using any of the known cheats. "

I just put up what someone had claimed was a timeline for MP games. That is not my experience in solo games. I would say it was an Avg tech start, which is common MP game to make it not takes so long. So you have C-ship and some tech.
I am flexible on reloads, and only really squak if editors or codes are used with out disclosure. Most of the messes I get into can not be saved with reloads.

	30-06-2002 04:47									#118
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quote: Originally posted by RPMisCOOL Excellent insight, thanks Vmxa1. So when folks are talking about winning by turn 150, what is the secret....Taking out the Antereans? Small map??? I mean, even though you kicked serious booty, your still not even done by T450...I still do not get it?

I have yet to see any evidence that it can be done without cheats. I am not talking about charismatic races in a small universe trying to get votes. All the post I see are talking about conquering at impossible large or better. I have yet to declare it can not be done, only that I have not seen any case made.

	30-06-2002 05:12									#119
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Moom, sorry to be so slow to respond. I do not know what was going on but I did not see a number of entries, including any of GV's logs until now. Anyway I never be able to pull that off as the AI usually will not even trade with me, repulsive or not. Ihave seldon used charm though. The few times I did , I was able to hold some trades for awhile.

	30-06-2002 05:17									#120
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Winning in under 300 turns is definitely doable. You may want to warn those that have not used Creative/Tele races at impossible, that you must capture races soon. If you sit too long building tech, the AI will show up with a kick butt fleet. They also like to blockade your planets.