31-07-2002 13:06									#211
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quote: especialy since you don't need Carriers to use them

Though it's recommended for air defense.

	31-07-2002 13:49									#212
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quote: Originally posted by kettyo So is 'city bombing bug' eliminated with this patch? (every improvement/unit/pop hit handled as a miss when there's no imps/units/pop remain) That would be really nice ! (won't make size 1 cities just for bombard defense for units)

Not sure about that.
Since it never came to that, that sity stayed at 1pop or was with 0 buildings.
I always conquered it before that happens.

	01-08-2002 04:21									#213
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Continuing the discussion from the corruption FAQ thread:

quote: Originally posted by player1 Original: 100% (chief), 95%, 90% (regent), 85%, 80%, 70% (deity) Proposed: 200% (chief), 150%, 100% (regent), 90%, 80%, 70% (deity)

The only thing I would change would be to leave Monarch at 85%. OTOH you're the mod god, you decide!

	01-08-2002 04:30									#214
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quote: Originally posted by alexman The only thing I would change would be to leave Monarch at 85%. OTOH you're the mod god, you decide!

It's more a flavor thing.
Having increments of 10% between diffculties.

90% vs 85% won't make any REAL difference.

	01-08-2002 04:34									#215
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Of course this need to be tested.

We need to verify, will AI use standard regent value at every difficulty level (otwervise lower corruption of chief. would actulay benefit AI).


P.S.
For those who don't know what alex & me are talking, it's about optimal % value in diffculty screen in editor (different values for various diffculties).

	01-08-2002 05:16									#216
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It's a pain to test, but it might not be necessary. I think the AI has the Regent OCN%.

quote: Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis Just to clairfy once more... if you play on Prince or lower, the AI receives no gameplay bonuses whatsoever. No growth bonus, no production bonus, no science bonus, no combat bonus, no support bonus, no goodie hut bonus, no bonus against barbarians, no wonder-building bons, no corruption bonus, no waste bonus.

[he means Regent]

The fact that he mentions corruption means that under higher difficulty levels, the AI gets corruption bonuses, but on Regent it does not. The percentage of OCN is the only place where corruption is affected by difficulty level.

So the AI can't be always using 100% (otherwise it would be a bonus at Regent), and it can't be using the value that the human player uses (otherwise he would not be mentioning corruption in the list of AI bonuses).

	01-08-2002 20:52									#217
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quote: Originally posted by player1 Original: 100% (chief), 95%, 90% (regent), 85%, 80%, 70% (deity) Proposed: 200% (chief), 150%, 100% (regent), 90%, 80%, 70% (deity)

200% on chieftain makes the game too easy IMO. Even a novice player should run into corruption due to no. of cities at SOME point, and I seriously doubt that a lot of people like to build empires with 32+ cities on chieftain. What about 150% for chieftain, 125% for warlord?

I agree with the rest of your proposal, especially with the 100% for regent. (Firaxis, what were you thinking?)

	01-08-2002 21:11									#218
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quote: Originally posted by lockstep 200% on chieftain makes the game too easy IMO. Even a novice player should run into corruption due to no. of cities at SOME point, and I seriously doubt that a lot of people like to build empires with 32+ cities on chieftain. What about 150% for chieftain, 125% for warlord? I agree with the rest of your proposal, especially with the 100% for regent. (Firaxis, what were you thinking?)

Don't forget that 200% ONC on standard map is not same as normal ONC on huge map (huge map has ONC doubled).
Since bigger maps have lower distance corruption (depends form map size).

And that these setting don't change distance corruption in any way.

	01-08-2002 21:16									#219
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And novice players would probably like to win conquest or domination victory without too much corruption annoyance.
(still it's not like 0% corruption, they'll need those corthouses and FP at some point)

	01-08-2002 21:29									#220
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Hmm,
Since my propsed % are simialar to AI Cost factor (200 on chief, 100 on regent), maybe warlord should be 120 (just like AI cost factor).

In that case leap form 200 to 120 would be a big step for novice who mastered chief diffculty.

So maybe it should be: 150%,120(warlord),100,90,80,70(deity)

	01-08-2002 22:09									#221
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quote: Originally posted by player1 Don't forget that 200% ONC on standard map is not same as normal ONC on huge map (huge map has ONC doubled).

Sorry, I was referring to a standard map.

quote: And novice players would probably like to win conquest or domination victory without too much corruption annoyance.

I agree, but they should still ask themselves at some point if yet another city is really worthwile. (To get that vanilla Civ3 flavour. )

quote: maybe it should be: 150%,120(warlord),100,90,80,70(deity)

	01-08-2002 22:46									#222
	Increase Your PM Length

While we're at tweaking corruption: IMO, the optimal numbers of cities are badly distorted with regard to mapsizes since Civ3 v1.16.

• Originally (that is, in v1.07), the nos. were 8/12/16/24/32 for tiny/small/standard/large/huge maps.
  
• After a lot of complaints about unmanagable corruption on tiny maps, Firaxis changed it to 12/14/16/24/32 in v1.16. (IMO, the nos. should have been increased for all map sizes or - if they really wanted to keep the '16 cities' for a standard map - decreased for large and huge maps.)
  
• In v1.21, Firaxis actually reduced the size of large and huge maps, but didn't change the nos. of optimal cities accordingly, making the distortion between tiny/standard and standard/huge even worse.

	01-08-2002 23:03									#223
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quote: Comments?

Maybe it's best to leave it as it is.

	01-08-2002 23:44									#224
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quote: Originally posted by player1 Maybe it's best to leave it as it is.

Well, at least it's not as obviously flawed as 90% OCN on Regent.

	01-08-2002 23:48									#225
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quote: Originally posted by lockstep Well, at least it's not as obviously flawed as 90% OCN on Regent.

Why is 90% flawed? It's just a number. The AI uses that same Regent number...

	02-08-2002 00:01									#226
	Inflate your Upload Space

If I had to choose between, say, an OCN of 18 cities/100% and another one of 20 cities/90% (which yields the same result), I'd rather choose the former than the latter. (Maybe 'flawed' for the latter is too harsh, I should have used 'unelegant' instead.)

BTW, the same applies IMO for the current defense bonus of 10% for desert, plains, grassland, tundra etc. What's the point of a defense bonus if every other terrain type has at least the same bonus? (The 'elegant' way, IMO, would be to tweak unit defense values instead of terrain defense values.)

	02-08-2002 23:35									#227
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While I was browsing Civ3's civilopedia, I noticed the entry for 'ironclad': 'The forerunner of the modern battleship, the Ironclad is a tough defender against anything but more modern warships.'

So why not let ironclads upgrade to battleships? (This would also solve the issue where to upgrade frigates and the Man-O-War.)

	02-08-2002 23:42									#228
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Great idea!

That would compensate for the fact that the mod reduces the shelf-life of ironclads. Now you keep them around longer before upgrading them.

It would also add a strategic decision of what to build when both frigates and ironclads are available.

PS: I still think Frigates should get an extra movement point

	02-08-2002 23:48									#229
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quote: Originally posted by alexman PS: I still think Frigates should get an extra movement point

I second that motion. Frigates were by far the fastest ships in any fleet under sail.

	05-08-2002 04:24									#230
	Re: MOD: Patch suggestion MOD Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by player1 Changes in ver 1.26 Mech. Inf. has no more offense AI flag selected (has only defense AI flag now). Since AI used too much Mech. Inf. instead of Tanks when planning attacks (and built Tanks rarely). This should fix that AI behavior.

Wasn't that AI behavior due to a bug that, according to Soren Johnson, has been fixed in Civ3 v1.29?

	05-08-2002 06:59									#231
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May I just say great work, Player1! I always play Civ3 using a slightly modified version of your mod.

As for the Mech Inf. offense flag: Yes, I think there was a bug that caused units with both offense and defense flags to always become offense when the AI upgraded them, even if the AI built them for defense.

But since you can always build Tanks if you can build Mech Infantry, and Tanks are stronger on the attack than Mech Inf., would there be a point to turning the offense flag on?

	05-08-2002 11:40									#232
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player 1,

shouldn't you turn airlift on for workers too?
Even modern armor can airlift, why not workers?

(settlers definitively shouldn't though)

	05-08-2002 12:59									#233
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep But since you can always build Tanks if you can build Mech Infantry, and Tanks are stronger on the attack than Mech Inf., would there be a point to turning the offense flag on?

You're right, I forgot that tanks and mech infantry have the same ressource requirements. The only 'advantage' of mech infantry over tanks is that the former can be drafted, but I wouldn't want the AI to attack with conscript mech infantry.

So yes, the offense flag for mech infantry should stay turned off (and be turned off in future standard versions of Civ3/PtW).

quote: Originally posted by kettyo player 1, shouldn't you turn airlift on for workers too? Even modern armor can airlift, why not workers? (settlers definitively shouldn't though)

Interesting idea. Yes, settler shouldn't airlift, but for workers it's debatable.

	05-08-2002 17:38									#234
	Re: Re: MOD: Patch suggestion MOD Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by lockstep Wasn't that AI behavior due to a bug that, according to Soren Johnson, has been fixed in Civ3 v1.29?

Yes, but considering stats of Tanks and Mech. Inf. and their resourse & tech. preq., there is realy no good point of such flag.

Because, in every city in which you can build Mech. Inf. you you are also able to build Tanks.

On the other hand hen you have no Horses Rilfemen & Infantry are righ (offense) way to go (especialy with MODed attacks of 5 & 8).

	05-08-2002 17:39									#235
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quote: Originally posted by lockstep Interesting idea. Yes, settler shouldn't airlift, but for workers it's debatable.

Workers also represent huge number of pop.
(one pop oint exactly)

Like half of settler unit.


It's supossed to be much higher number then in Tank or Infantry unit.


P.S.
And anyway, if you need workers on some small isalnd just build them.
They cost just 10 shields.

No need for "aircraft migrations".

	05-08-2002 17:41									#236
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep But since you can always build Tanks if you can build Mech Infantry, and Tanks are stronger on the attack than Mech Inf., would there be a point to turning the offense flag on?

Exactly!

	05-08-2002 22:35									#237
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quote: Fighters get only lethal sea, since historicly Fighters were used for attacks on capital ships like dive bombers, but Fighters were not used as tactical bombers on land, until Jet Fighters became available.

player1,

Tell this to some veterans of the British Expeditionary Force, that those stukas bombed the hell out of them while waiting for entry to transport ships were not used as tactical bombers.

And AFAIK the latest german panzers of WWII could only be destroyed by airplanes of the anti-fascist coalition, because of armour strenght.

	06-08-2002 00:16									#238
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quote: Originally posted by kettyo And AFAIK the latest german panzers of WWII could only be destroyed by airplanes of the anti-fascist coalition, because of armour strenght.

Ok, maybe I should have said "not too much effectively".

Not, "not used".

	06-08-2002 12:49									#239
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quote: Originally posted by Killerdaffy Frigates were by far the fastest ships in any fleet under sail.

I don't know but in the game 'pirates!" (you know that superb c64/amiga game) a sloop or a barque could easily outrun it.

	06-08-2002 16:41									#240
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quote: Originally posted by kettyo I don't know but in the game 'pirates!" (you know that superb c64/amiga game) a sloop or a barque could easily outrun it.

Probably right, but then, how many cannons could you fit on a sloop or barque? Not enough to make them serious contenders in any armed conflict. And a golden age English frigate could still run circles around your average Spanish treasure galleon...