10-03-2002 12:32									#31
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I love Case's idea for a PBEM scenario! Hell, if that's what's decided to be done, I might join in the fun myself! Lately I've been toying with the idea of making a multiplayer scenario based on Europe between 1000AD-1200AD, or one for the Afrika Korps.

Concerning Techumseh's comments:

quote: Too much. You may not get enough submissions in each category to make a good contest. Better to pick one theme, after thorough discussion, to ensure there's enough interest. Also, don't underestimate the work involved in administering the contest.

I fully agree. Let's just go with PBEM. As Case said, they are popular right now so lets capitalize off of that. Couldn't hurt to have more scenarios specifically designed for PBEM floating around.

quote: I think it needs a theme though, Warvoid. Otherwise any nearly complete scenario someone is working on (I have a number) could be torqued up and submitted, while other contestants would have to start from scratch. Besides, arguing over the theme is part of the fun.

I disagree. A scenario is a scenario. It doesn't matter if someone submits a scenario they were working on long before the contest theme was decided upon, they still put as much effort into the scenario as everyone else. The only difference is they get it finished quicker, which doesn't matter. I don't think there should be a theme other than just being PBEM. If there is the theme, it should be incredibly broad. The amount of active scenario designers are significantly less than the last scenario contest, which in my opinion barely had any participants. Only 4 for the ToT platform and 2 for MGE... I know that if a topic gets picked that I'm not interested in, I'm not going to create a scenario just for the sake of winning a contest. I create scenarios for my enjoyment of making it and playing it when it's finished. I think many others will agree with me. The contest is just an added bonus, sorta like free advertising. Most of the entries won't win, and the winners don't really get anything special, so making a scenario just for the sake of the contest does not justify the usage of 50+ hours of my time.

	10-03-2002 12:38									#32
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quote: Originally posted by WarVoid Personally, i'd like to see something set in the era of the Age of Sail, sometime between 1600 to 1800. Lord knows that era will give you the opportunity to create a myriad of excellent scenarios.

Though I like Mortens idea about a more general theme as well, in this case it could be "Naval Warfare", "Colonialism", or something like that...

Hmm, the thought just occured to me that the more general the subject the harder the submissions will be to judge/compare...

On the other hand, the wider the subject the more entries you're likely to get...

And about judging, can judges submit entries of thier own?

	10-03-2002 13:49									#33
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YAY!! Lets go i'm up for it, i wanna do anything to stop my bordem on my days off!!


YAY!!

	10-03-2002 14:20									#34
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quote: Originally posted by WarVoid Personally, i'd like to see something set in the era of the Age of Sail, sometime between 1600 to 1800. Lord knows that era will give you the opportunity to create a myriad of excellent scenarios.

I'm all for that category:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=42630



(it's 90% finished)

	10-03-2002 19:38									#35
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Great idea about the Age of Sail. How would you pull it off, while managing to keep the sailing aspect?

	10-03-2002 21:40									#36
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Magyarorszag - To solve your dilemma I prefer to keep the theme as wide as possible to encourage a greater variety of unique entries, rather than a few all about the same thing. Also, one of the conditions will be that the scenario is designed for play as a PBEM. Tho we're gonna need some playtesters. *cough*hint*cough*

Case - Your scenario would'nt fit in the category since it's set during the Napoleon Wars (1801 to 1814 IIRC) whereas the Age of Sail is 1600 to 1801 (the start of the Napoleonic Wars).

Goingonit - The Age of Sail can be simulated in Civ2 very easily. We've seen it done with some of Case's and Gothmog's naval scenarios. But the focus of the scenario should not be entirely on naval combat. Rather, it should be a combination of land and naval warfare. For instance,
in the 1630's, the Pirates of Tortuga and the Bahamas, collectively known as the Brethren of the Coast, attempted to gain a land empire in the Moskito Coast (modern Nicaragua), but were foiled by British and Spanish forces. That's a perfect example of combining both the naval and land aspects of the theme.

	10-03-2002 22:19									#37
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Doesn't Case have a great advantage here, having a 90% completed scenario? It may be a few years out, but it will be easy to modify that.

	11-03-2002 02:51									#38
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I think Napoleonic ships versus Age of Sail ships varies wide enough that hed have to do a lot of work to remake it for the contest.

But that's just my two cents. Just because he's got it almost done dosen't mean we should hold it against him, IMHO. Even if he is the first one to make a submission, it's not gonna shorten the submission window any nor will it affect the contest that much since someone else could also have the same thing going....

	11-03-2002 03:24									#39
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quote: Doesn't Case have a great advantage here, having a 90% completed scenario? It may be a few years out, but it will be easy to modify that.

I can modifiy it easily enough.
However, all I've used for the scenario is widely advailable graphics and maps and a very dodgy tech tree of my own invention, so it's not much of a head start.

Anyway, I think that an age of sail category would be a very good idea.
It's an era that's easily simulated, yet under represented. Due to the flexible alliances of the era, it would also provide fertile ground for PBEM friendly scenarios

	11-03-2002 03:29									#40
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How about broadening it just a bit, say, "Naval Warfare" in general ? -or maybe just "Age of Piracy" to narrow it down? (no set time frame). Either way, its a brilliant theme, and a genre that needs more experimenting with. Its challenging and inspiring! I'm already quite inspired!

	11-03-2002 13:41									#41
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A bit early for this but...

Warwoid, you can put me on the playtesters list!!!

	11-03-2002 14:40									#42
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I have several half-finished and partly finished scenarios laying around on my HD somewhere, so this contest idea could well be motivational. I will say that the age of sail/piracy in the Caribbean has been done, and done well. The principal reason that I haven't made a scenario of that type is because the others are so good. (The names Shay Roberts and Gothmog come to mind. )

Here's a twist; how about providing a map. Make it a very good, very detailed map, and let the scenario-designers' respective imaginations run wild with it. For example, I acquired a very nice, very large map of Great Britain. It was put together by an actual map-making firm, so its accuracy is very good. With simply a map, the designers could have a wide range of topics/periods to work within, and we might see some unique scenarios and at the same time they would all be on various subjects.

I do like the Multi-player scenarios quite a bit, and I truly think that this is the best avenue for scenario design; playing the AI, even on the highest settings, simply cannot compare with the fun to be had against several human opponents. I've been doing haphazard research, for several months now, on a Guadalcanal campaign scenario. The fight in the Solomons is a nice match for the capabilities of the Civ2 game. It took place on land, sea, and air, and was all action from start to finish. The drawback is that it would probably be a "chessgame." That is; it would be a two-player game only, Japan and U.S.

Exile

	11-03-2002 23:27									#43
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quote: Originally posted by hardjoy How about broadening it just a bit, say, "Naval Warfare" in general ? -or maybe just "Age of Piracy" to narrow it down? (no set time frame). Either way, its a brilliant theme, and a genre that needs more experimenting with. Its challenging and inspiring! I'm already quite inspired!

I don´t know what the others think of a broader perspective, but think this suggestion is very good. Combined with WarVoids idea ("a combination of land and naval warfare") this would open a variety of option for the designer, he could choose between:

- ancient operations like Alexander´s siege of Tyros or the Athenian operation against Syracuse,
- medieval events like the Viking/Norman conquests
- age of sail, like mentioned from others before
- or newer operations like eg WWI the landing at Gallipoli, the "island hopping" of US forces in WWII, or the Falkland war of 1982

All of these things could be done in a very different way, more focused on combat, or on empire building and developing - what do you think? Perhaps we can have one general topic with several sub categories (I don´t know if this is too much)...

	12-03-2002 00:45									#44
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Anything naval, that includes the age of sail would be ok with me

Just began planning my entry...

	12-03-2002 05:51									#45
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Well, I managed to get my blatant advertisment slot at CivFanatics posted. Even tho I wrote the article myself.

Anyhoo, as much as I like both Exile's and BeBro's ideas (map and naval warfare theme), since i'll most likely be handling much of the work, which means doing extensive historical research to make sure the scenarios are accurate, i'm limiting it to one theme era only. Trying to research such a wide expanse of naval history would simply be too time consuming on my part. Sorry fellas.

Also, providing a map might limit the creativity since people will be forced to use something custom rather than their own specific design. Personally, I don't think it's a good idea (no offense by that, simply my opinion). But, I don't do anything without a general consensus on the matter, so i'd like to see some more feedback on that part.

	12-03-2002 06:22									#46
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Hasn't it been traditional in previous SDC's to provide some resouces to help people? (eg maps, links, graphics, etc)

Personally, I think that the category 'Age of Sail' is good enough. This will result in roughly comparible scenarios on an interestingly wide number of subjects.
For example, people who like making colonisation style civs can do the colonisation of America's, people who like war scenarios can do any of the 1 million (approx) wars which occured during the period, and people who like hypothetical scenarios should also be well covered (eg what-if the French went for the US instead of Canada)

Last edited by Case on 12-03-2002 at 06:28

	12-03-2002 06:56									#47
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quote: Originally posted by WarVoid Anyhoo, as much as I like both Exile's and BeBro's ideas (map and naval warfare theme), since i'll most likely be handling much of the work, which means doing extensive historical research to make sure the scenarios are accurate, i'm limiting it to one theme era only. Trying to research such a wide expanse of naval history would simply be too time consuming on my part. Sorry fellas.

No problem, it was just an idea

For the Age of Sail gfx, I have some ships available http://www.civ2000.civ2.gamigo.de/pics/Units3.gif (by me)
http://www.civ2000.civ2.gamigo.de/pics/UnitsArne4.gif (by Arne)

I´m sure others have great units for the period too.

	12-03-2002 21:57									#48
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro I don´t know what the others think of a broader perspective, but think this suggestion is very good. Combined with WarVoids idea ("a combination of land and naval warfare") this would open a variety of option for the designer, he could choose between: - ancient operations like Alexander´s siege of Tyros or the Athenian operation against Syracuse, - medieval events like the Viking/Norman conquests - age of sail, like mentioned from others before - or newer operations like eg WWI the landing at Gallipoli, the "island hopping" of US forces in WWII, or the Falkland war of 1982 All of these things could be done in a very different way, more focused on combat, or on empire building and developing - what do you think? Perhaps we can have one general topic with several sub categories (I don´t know if this is too much)...

This sounds like a great idea

	13-03-2002 00:21									#49
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro - ancient operations like Alexander´s siege of Tyros or the Athenian operation against Syracuse,

I wonder why Alexander the Great has been abandoned by the scn designers,
the only two escenarios that i know about him are made by Stefan

don´t you think it´s a pity

	13-03-2002 00:36									#50
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What about ToT entries? I don't know if there's a great market for ToT PBEM so I'm wondering if using this format will be acceptable, and if so will it be subject to the same theme?

	13-03-2002 03:30									#51
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Warvoid. I'll make a scenario. So is it going to be age of sail?

	13-03-2002 04:58									#52
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Well, seeing as it's been the most popular by feedback, I think I might as well make it official now.

Yes, by Imperial Decree of the Maquis de Void.

The theme for Scenario Design Contest # 5 is now officially the Age of Sail. Your scenarios may be set anywhere between the years 1600 A.D. to 1801 A.D.

I shall have a website full of resources and information about the contest, including the rules, up by the weekend.

	13-03-2002 05:00									#53
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I would be in favor of Age of Sail. I have an entry in mind.

	13-03-2002 09:27									#54
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What's the final decision on wether the scenarios should be designed to be PBEMable?

Last edited by Case on 13-03-2002 at 09:34

	13-03-2002 12:02									#55
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quote: Originally posted by WarVoid The theme for Scenario Design Contest # 5 is now officially the Age of Sail. Your scenarios may be set anywhere between the years 1600 A.D. to 1801 A.D.

pleaseeeeee, can you expand it some years?per example from 1580-1801, so could be that somebody make a scenario about some naval campaigns in this years

	13-03-2002 15:49									#56
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I know what you are talking about

Perhaps 1500 - 1800? And perhaps we could have PBEM and non PBEM scenarios?

	13-03-2002 17:44									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Shaka Naldur I wonder why Alexander the Great has been abandoned by the scn designers, the only two escenarios that i know about him are made by Stefan don´t you think it´s a pity

Well, if I had enough time...

	13-03-2002 18:42									#58
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quote: Originally posted by WarVoid The theme for Scenario Design Contest # 5 is now officially the Age of Sail.

Why #5? What ever happened to SCD #4?

	13-03-2002 19:44									#59
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muahahahaha...

*ressurrects a secret project.*



Are we gearing these towards multiplayer or just single play?

Also, what's the story on format... FW, ToT, MGE?

Last edited by DarthVeda on 13-03-2002 at 19:49

	13-03-2002 20:26									#60
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro Perhaps 1500 - 1800? And perhaps we could have PBEM and non PBEM scenarios?

This is a good time frame, IMO. It'll allow for exploration-colonization type scens, as well as scens about Spain at the height of its glory (pre-1588), as well as scens about Englands ascendance as an international naval (and imperial) power.