23-03-2002 19:41									#1
	Why Is Spanish So Damn Insignificant? Increase Your PM Length

The language has had no great works of literature, at all, ever. English has had several and will continue to. Ancient languages that so many Spanish-speaking people tend to defame, like Greek or Latin, have stood the test of time - mainly due to the fact that they housed some of the best stories and epics known to man. How can those same bastard critics then claim that Spanish is the hot new language, and that everything else is on the way out for some reason?

I look forward to the El Illiado.

	23-03-2002 19:42									#2
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9.5/10

	23-03-2002 19:45									#3
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Never heard of the epic El Pollo Diablo?

	23-03-2002 19:46									#4
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Well, I don't know enough (even after 7 years of study) about Spanish literature to argue that part, and perhaps in the US Spanish seems insignificant, (where EVERYTHING non-American seems insiginificant ) but just try telling that to the half billion plus who speak it, and the many countries that are starting to find MASSIVE markets in South America.

That's like saying the Russians couldn't start a world war if they tried. Pah! Reality check.

	23-03-2002 19:49									#5
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El Cid? whatever it was called, the story of the crazy conquistador.

	23-03-2002 19:51									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin Never heard of the epic El Pollo Diablo?

No.

quote: but just try telling that to the half billion plus who speak it, and the many countries that are starting to find MASSIVE markets in South America.

Ok. Their language is pathetic, compare it to the epic-full English, Greek, or Latin, and be prepare to be schooled all the way up and down the court. It's truly amazing how things like that work.

quote: That's like saying the Russians couldn't start a world war if they tried. Pah! Reality check.

What?

	23-03-2002 19:57									#7
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Well, how many Greek or Latin speakers are there today?

As much as I enjoy these epics, they hardly are anything but stories from bygone eras today. Hell, the only reason they are taught in so many places is 'cos of a tradition from Christian religious sevices (and how relevant are they?)

Love it or deny it, Spanish is here to stay. And I am quite looking forward to the day that many monolinguals (especially Americans) need to learn it for daily life.

	23-03-2002 19:58									#8
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Never heard of the epic El Pollo Diablo?

No.

	23-03-2002 20:03									#9
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The language has great works of literature, although not many that you would know about since you're either not interested or educated enough.

Don Quijote de la Mancha is considered one of the greatest spanish literature works in spanish, to name one.
Nowadays spanish speakers learn english because its the economic language but not because of its flourish and the beauty of it. Not too many people I know bother to learn shakesperian english for the sake of it.

My technical books are in english. My literature is in spanish...

	23-03-2002 20:03									#10
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quote: Well, how many Greek or Latin speakers are there today?

Very few, because of people like you who are all "Viva La Spanish Revolution" or whatever and treat the whole thing like some sort of ****ing revolt against "Big Diablo" America. Grow up.

quote: As much as I enjoy these epics, they hardly are anything but stories from bygone eras today. Hell, the only reason they are taught in so many places is 'cos of a tradition from Christian religious sevices (and how relevant are they?)

Wrong. Latin's still taught in schools because of religious texts and services, true, but also because of the amazing and life-changing dose of culture/history you get along with it. Try saying the same about Spanish.

	23-03-2002 20:04									#11
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I'm still looking forward to Giancarlo posting in this thread.

	23-03-2002 20:13									#12
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The world's lingua franca is english. Or at least the western world's.

In Europe the most important language as a means of communication between people of different nations is english.
Next it's french.
Next it's german

Spanish, Italian etc are a minority.

Now in the new world things may be somewhat different I imagine. Latin America except Brazil speaks spanish so...


But that does not mean things won't change.
Once Greek was the lingua franca of the whole knwon world.
Now they still do exist through Greeks and through academic classes and through the current lingua franca which is english and is based heavily on greek.

In any case maybe US will become bilingual with english and spanish.
In Europe though the "common language of communciation between foreigners" (=lingua franca in a way) is english.

	23-03-2002 20:26									#13
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Actually, don Quixote is considered by English departments to be the worlds first novel.

'Magic Realism' is a style first developed by South American authors...

'Kiss of the Spider Woman' was a novel long before it was a movie, and is considered a great work of Argentinian literature.

Naturally English speakers don't get exposed to Hispanic literature and culture....oddly enough, because it's in Spanish!

Even in other areas...the popular graphic novels of Carlos Meglia and Carlos Trillo, from Buenos Aires, are read and exported from Quebec to Italy all around the world....but not in English.

There is a whole world out there of non-English speakers, and it's still quite vibrant. The 'ROW' does NOT just 'sit around, waiting for the translation'.

Oh, and for a good chunk of history up until the 19th century, most books were not written in English....

	23-03-2002 20:29									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Wiglaf Very few, because of people like you who are all "Viva La Spanish Revolution" or whatever and treat the whole thing like some sort of ****ing revolt against "Big Diablo" America. Grow up.

Tremendous Wiglaf. Given only two posts you have summed me up in but a phrase. Wow.

Just what is it that seems to bother you about ppl knowing and using Spanish? Perhaps it is 'cause you don't yourself know the language. Or perhaps you do, but in that case I hardly think you would see it as "insignificant". Just what, pray tell, is "significant"? Is is that which directly affects you and your community? I hope not, as that is a very narrow frame of reference.

My point is that EVERYONE would do well to learn other ways of expression, and the only reason I singled out America is because I have yet to meet an American overseas who knows any language more than just English. Sure, there are millions who are multi-lingual, but how much impact does this have on US society at the moment? From what I can gather, very little, yet this is just a denial of a very large section of society.

If Spanish, and other languages, are seen as "insignificant", I fear for the future - if such wholly Anglocentric and singular ideas are prevalent in enough peoples' minds, this just enforces the sort of nationalism and distrust that causes the anti- (insert-name-of-country-or-people here) sentiment that most of the free world is currently fighting against.

	23-03-2002 20:57									#15
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quote: Just what, pray tell, is "significant"? Is is that which directly affects you and your community? I hope not, as that is a very narrow frame of reference.

A language is significant if it leaves or is leaving a lasting mark on literature in general. A language is not significant if it has no great works of written art and is instead only used worth a damn in spoken conversation and/or only exists as some sort of method for a dangerous riot aimed at North America to bring down English. (You pretty much said it did yourself)

	23-03-2002 21:16									#16
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Bring down English? If there's one thing we should both agree on is that no language is going to bring down English. At least not in the short term.

If you ignore the literary contributions of Spanish, mentioned by Seeker in this thread for example, then fine, by your defintion Spanish is insignificant.

But why in Sheol is a literary definition of significance even necessary? Does the fact that many English speakers know nothing of the literary ineritance of the language make it less important to them? Of course not - a language is as significant as the amount of usage it gets - read, spoken, written or as a less commonplace academic tool. And what's to say that a language has no great works of literary art? Just 'cause they aren't well known outside of that language, does that make, say, Finnish literature inferior to Shakespeare? (Apologies if I offend any Finns here - it is meant as a hypothetical example - I know nothing about Finnish, so any comments I make about it are pure speculation) I hardly think so. How much Spanish literature have you read? Probably less than you have in the original. I suspect you know even less about it than I do, which is very little indeed. All I know is about the huge contribution Spanish has had to modern English.


And why are you afraid of Spanish? What riot are you talking about?

	23-03-2002 21:29									#17
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quote: And why are you afraid of Spanish? What riot are you talking about?

You said:

"Love it or deny it, Spanish is here to stay. And I am quite looking forward to the day that many monolinguals (especially Americans) need to learn it for daily life."

quote: But why in Sheol is a literary definition of significance even necessary?

Because if we all were intelligent enough to realize just how much English, Greek and Latin kick the living crap out of Spanish, there'd be more books from people who would otherwise have fallen into a trap of only being able to communicate worth a damn in spoken conversation, a much improved tourism industry since having to take a class to check out another country is no longer a requirement, and just generally a more united, sound world.

quote: How much Spanish literature have you read?

There is no (decent) Spanish literature. You will not find any depth in it. The language is broke in that it is only worthwhile in spoken conversation, and that's it. Yet you people expect it to dominate other countries and spread spread spread all through America?

Whatever.

	23-03-2002 21:45									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Wiglaf You said: [There is no (decent) Spanish literature. You will not find any depth in it. The language is broke in that it is only worthwhile in spoken conversation, and that's it. Yet you people expect it to dominate other countries and spread spread spread all through America?

Most probably none that you know of. The US Board of Education has real problems with students learning English, why would they bother letting them know there are in fact other worthwhile languages to learn?

	23-03-2002 21:51									#19
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Even though I have many reason to hate Spanish, I must say that there are significant works that are written in Spanish. People have named some already. Wiglaf, just be quite a learn a foreign language. I feel sorry for all those europeans who have had to learn English as a second language and I think it should be common courtesy to learn one of their languages, whether it be Spanish, French, Portuguese, German, etc.

	23-03-2002 21:53									#20
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 The world's lingua franca is english.

Ironically, lingua franca litterally means "French language." The world's French language is English.

	23-03-2002 21:53									#21
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I'm not wanting Spanish or any language to take over anything, Wiglaf - it is just the trend in the US that Spanish is becoming more and more noticeable, especially as more and more Spanish speakers immigrate. This is not some "Revolution" against any "Evil", or anything so black and white, but what may in fact be a necessity one day. In many countries of Europe, it is imperative to learn multiple languages. It gives you the means to communicate with many others, and a look at another culture that is quite frankly impossible if you don't know the language.

Latin, Greek and English "kick the living crap out of Spanish"? Where did this pearl of wisdom come from? I don't claim to know Latin or Greek, but English is a mass of illogic, borrowed terms and sheer confusion for anyone who tries to learn it. Yeah, I kinda like that in my language, but it hardly makes it "superior".

My greatest fear with English is the sort of dominance you allude to - a world where everyone speaks English, thus negating any need for any other language. How can you learn the finer points of ANY culture without the language as part and parcel? You can't. You may well think Spanish literature is lacking, but I really can't take you seriously if you deny Spanish and Hispanic culture . The dance, song, cuisine, history, personality, architecture, religion and identity of Spanish is phenomenal, and is intrinsically linked to the language. All cultures are. To deny the importance of Spanish and other cultures is ridiculous, and I hope you aren't this way inclined.

And you didn't even answer my question about whether you have read any Spanish literature. You seem to ignore that and just assume that it is "broken", and somehow the fact that you think so makes it unimportant. Are you arguing about something from a position of total ignorance?

WTF?

	23-03-2002 21:58									#22
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse I'm still looking forward to Giancarlo posting in this thread.

Oh my, can you imagine? Should we PM him or something? I'm going to go get some popcorn.

My advice still remains, Wiggums. Medical help. Lots of it.

	23-03-2002 22:05									#23
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Wiggy's already pissed off Giancarlo on more than one occasion.

	23-03-2002 22:07									#24
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So I take it this isn't an inspired conclusion that has suddenly been reached after much careful thought but a continuation of an old thread that has frustrated those who tried to put across their POV?

Ah well. It was fun whilst I was deluded into thinking my posts were being taken seriously.

	23-03-2002 22:09									#25
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Krazyhorse you guessed right. So based on wiggy's scale that Spanish is insignificant, I guess english even more so. Wiggy what have you been smoking today? Have you even attempted looking up literary works by Spanish authors?

Now, take this bullshit and shove up it your ass, because I am sick and tired of trolls. These aren't funny, and are downright offensive.

	23-03-2002 22:10									#26
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Ah well. It was fun whilst I was deluded into thinking my posts were being taken seriously.

Your posts being taken seriously? By Wiggy?!?!

The only thing that deserves to be taken seriously in regard to Wiglaf is his serious medical condition: Cranial-Rectal Impaction.

	23-03-2002 22:10									#27
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How can you respond seriously to a claim like "Spanish is insignificant and has never produced anything worthwhile"?

	23-03-2002 22:12									#28
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Ironically, lingua franca litterally means "French language." The world's French language is English.

ahahahahaha And even more ironically, it is true

	23-03-2002 22:13									#29
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http://www.lib.utexas.edu/subject/i...uthors18th.html

That link just made you look like an ******* wiggy, those are Spanish authors from just the 18th century. I would shut up if I were you.

	23-03-2002 22:22									#30
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KrazyHorse - I'm drunk. That's how.


Won't make that mistake again.

G'night Wiggy. Happy trolling.