27-03-2002 05:30									#1
	Slavery reparations Tired of ads?

What do you think about this:

Edit:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020326/ts_nm/rights_slavery_lawsuit_dc

	27-03-2002 05:34									#2
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an absolute crock of ****

	27-03-2002 05:36									#3
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Damn, I was literally just about to post that.

To sum up for people who are too lazy to link:

Aetna Insurance, FleetBoston, CSX Railroad, and other corporations are being sued for having built their businesses on the backs of slaves. The amount of money being sought has not been disclosed, but slaves did about $1.4 trillion dollars (today's dollars) of work between 1790 and 1860.

Now, bear in mind--this isn't the government paying reparations. These would be businesses. Meaning, these aren't "your tax dollars" going towards reparations.


I think it's a fantastic idea. I've always been wary of government reparations, but suing the businesses that were built on slavery? Brilliant. Go get 'em. How beautifully capitalist!

Now let's see David Floyd, et al, list all the reasons I'm wrong, and should quit smoking peyote.

	27-03-2002 05:38									#4
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quote: Originally posted by orange an absolute crock of ****

Ha! See! We don't always agree!

I was right about the Iroquois... and I'm right about this.

	27-03-2002 05:38									#5
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How are they going to pay all the dead people?

	27-03-2002 05:40									#6
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No (edit: Living) individuals have been directly affected by slavery. Show me a person who was enslaved and still living today, and I'll support that they be awarded reparations.

If you want business to give back, fine. I'm all for it. But not to individuals who just want to leech off of the misfortune of their ancestors. Instead, how about having them pay higher taxes that go directly to urban education/healthcare/services where the population is heavily African American.

Besides, the people that are sueing - you can tell they're already well to do and have already moved up the ranks. They don't need this money, and they're full of **** for acting like they deserve a damn penny of it.

	27-03-2002 05:40									#7
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Guynemer, do you think the government should pay reparations? I mean, if you do then it is logical to ask that corporations do the same.

If you don't, then how do you support the dichotomy you set up? For then you would have a situation where you maintain the right to sue the companies that made money from slavery, but you wouldn't have the right to sue the government that created and maintained the conditions possible for the existence of slavery?

	27-03-2002 05:41									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia How are they going to pay all the dead people?

I'm issuing an APB for a strawman; repeat, strawman argument spotted in "Slavery reparations" thread. Subject is lacking depth and insight; approach and eliminate with extreme prejudice.

	27-03-2002 05:43									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer I'm issuing an APB for a strawman; repeat, strawman argument spotted in "Slavery reparations" thread. Subject is lacking depth and insight; approach and eliminate with extreme prejudice.

What strawman? I asked a question.

	27-03-2002 05:44									#10
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Guynemer, do you think the government should pay reparations? I mean, if you do then it is logical to ask that corporations do the same. Otoh, if you don't then how do you support the dichotomy? I mean, you want to sue the companies that made money from slavery, but you don't want to sue the government that created and maintained the conditions possible for the existance of slavery?

Simple. The government would have to use our money to do it. My ancestors, to the best of my knowledge, never owned slaves. I know for sure my fiancee's never did; her father is a German immigrant. He shouldn't have to pay reparations.

But the corporations that made their money through slavery? Why the hell not?


As for the strawman that "no slave is still alive," come off it. So you're telling me that children of Jews who were murdered in WWII aren't entitled to the wealth that the Nazis stole from them and hid in Swiss banks?

	27-03-2002 05:45									#11
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Why should someone who was never a slaveowner cut a check to someone who was never a slave?

	27-03-2002 05:46									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer As for the strawman that "no slave is still alive," come off it. So you're telling me that children of Jews who were murdered in WWII aren't entitled to the wealth that the Nazis stole from them and hid in Swiss banks?

In this case you dont even have the children of the children.

	27-03-2002 05:48									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia In this case you dont even have the children of the children.

Are you kidding? 137 years really isn't all that long a time; we like to separate ourselves from slavery, but it wasn't too long ago that it was alive and well. There are still children of slaves alive, Cali. Guaranteed.

	27-03-2002 05:49									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer As for the strawman that "no slave is still alive," come off it. So you're telling me that children of Jews who were murdered in WWII aren't entitled to the wealth that the Nazis stole from them and hid in Swiss banks?

Show me a child of a slave and I'd be more than welcome to pay them reparations.

	27-03-2002 05:49									#15
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This one is actually kind of hard for me to decide. On the one hand these companies and the US were somewhat built on the backs of slaves.

However, those slaves were BOUGHT from Africa, other black tribes, are they seeking reparations from them?

Also if their ancestors weren't slaves where would they be? Africa, as a comedian(Eddie Griffin) said " Africa ain't no place for a n....black person.

	27-03-2002 05:49									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer Are you kidding? 137 years really isn't all that long a time; we like to separate ourselves from slavery, but it wasn't too long ago that it was alive and well. There are still children of slaves alive, Cali. Guaranteed.

Where is the cutoff point then?

	27-03-2002 05:50									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer Are you kidding? 137 years really isn't all that long a time; we like to separate ourselves from slavery, but it wasn't too long ago that it was alive and well. There are still children of slaves alive, Cali. Guaranteed.

That would make that person, at the least, 100 years old.

	27-03-2002 05:51									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Where is the cutoff point then?

Not following you here.

	27-03-2002 05:51									#19
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quote: Originally posted by orange That would make that person, at the least, 100 years old.

Yes, it would. Care to take a guess on how many 100 year old people there are today in America?

	27-03-2002 05:52									#20
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I believe it was Mohammed Ali who said, "I'm glad my grand daddy got on the boat", or something to that effect.

	27-03-2002 05:53									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer Not following you here.

Great! I wish everyone who supports reparations for slavery would stop talking about it as quickly as you.

	27-03-2002 05:53									#22
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BTW, I was under the impression that ex post facto laws were illegal. If so, how do these lawsuits get over that hurdle?

	27-03-2002 05:56									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer Yes, it would. Care to take a guess on how many 100 year old people there are today in America?

I'm gonna guess two thousand, maybe three.

	27-03-2002 05:56									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski However, those slaves were BOUGHT from Africa, other black tribes, are they seeking reparations from them? Also if their ancestors weren't slaves where would they be? Africa, as a comedian(Eddie Griffin) said " Africa ain't no place for a n....black person.

How does any of that mean that people aren't entitled to what was wrongly kept from their ancestors?

Again, this isn't the US Government paying people. These are the companies who used slavery.

And btw Orange, I didn't respond to your above idea about healthcare/services/whatnot. I think that's a great idea, actually. My first thought when I heard about this case was "I bet they're actually aiming to get scholarships/housing/health care from those companies through a settlement."

	27-03-2002 05:57									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Great! I wish everyone who supports reparations for slavery would stop talking about it as quickly as you.

Wow. Now you've REALLY lost me. What the hell are you trying to say?

	27-03-2002 06:00									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer How does any of that mean that people aren't entitled to what was wrongly kept from their ancestors?

I never said it was. But why aren't they? We all know why but if we answer we will be called prejudiced or racist or what have you, when that wouldn't really apply.

Simply put, africa is poor, how can they ppay reparations, and why should they when we can get these companies to do it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposing it, I'm just not sure I totally agree with it.

	27-03-2002 06:00									#27
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger I'm gonna guess two thousand, maybe three.

According to the latest census estimates, 68,000.

	27-03-2002 06:01									#28
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger I'm gonna guess two thousand, maybe three.

and going by statistics, only 10% of Americans are African American, and then going by the life expectancy for African Americans being lower than white Americans, and then factoring the fact that not all black people's ancestors were slaves...

I'd say there are between 10 and 15 people whose parents were slaves, even if only for a year or two, and who may or may not have contributed to any corporation's wealth.

	27-03-2002 06:04									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer And btw Orange, I didn't respond to your above idea about healthcare/services/whatnot. I think that's a great idea, actually. My first thought when I heard about this case was "I bet they're actually aiming to get scholarships/housing/health care from those companies through a settlement."

Then that's what they should lobby for. Playing victim for something that they were never directly affected by, and seeking retribution from individuals who are not directly responsible for it, will only succeed in doing one thing as far as I'm concerned: pissing me off.

	27-03-2002 06:04									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Simply put, africa is poor, how can they ppay reparations, and why should they when we can get these companies to do it.

Okay. I see what you're getting at. But, again, those were tribal leaders and kings who profited--governments, essentially. The governments that are there are now are in no way, shape, or form related to those tribal leaders and kings.

The companies, however, are the same companies--name changes and whatnot be damned.