30-03-2002 22:00									#91
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I just hope one of these days both sides kill God at once instead of killing so many human beings

	30-03-2002 23:31									#92
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This is the current events thread.

Explosion in a restaourant in Tel Aviv, it is declared as an event with many casualties.

	30-03-2002 23:36									#93
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NEWS UPDATE

To be clear, until now we are only occupying 3 areas:

1) Ramallah - was entered friday morning
2) Beit Jalla - was entered today after mortar shells were fired
3) some village which holds the office of jibril rajoub, which we surrounded.

Palestinian spokesmen have claimed we conquered everything etc.

We didn't.

	30-03-2002 23:39									#94
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NEWS UPDATE

An Israeli border guard was killed today, when he stopped an infiltration of two Terrorists to Israel.

The two terrorists shot him dead, and soon exploded in the vehicale they tried to enter Israel with.

In addition to the bomb, they also carried rifles.

They were heading to one of the coast towns - I suspect Hadera.

	30-03-2002 23:42									#95
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NEWS UPDATE

Things recovered in Arafat's offices:

1 - several of the most wanted terrorists, finding refuge with Arafat, yet not arrested or limited.

2 - a huge pile up of weapons, including RPGs. All which are contrary to the agreements.

3 - a huge pile of documents linking Arafat to direct support of the illegal terrorists.

	30-03-2002 23:44									#96
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NEWS UPDATE

A synagogue was torched in France by "anonymous".

Obviously a well rounded and justified response against evil jews everywhere

	30-03-2002 23:51									#97
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NEWS UPDATE
More wanted terrorists who are now with Arafat -
The murderers of Rehav'am Ze'evi.
The PFLP leader - Ahmad Saadat.

15 tanks are surrounding Rajoub's office in Bitunya village, according to him.
"They demand we suround all wanted terrorists who hid in here" he said to Reuters "and if we won't - they will blow this place up".
He said that there are only people of his staff there, so he doesn't get the demand.

Special Envoy Zinni will meet with Israeli General Staff Chief, to discuss Israeli military actions, and explain them to USA.

After a request from Israeli MK Ahmed Tibbi, former advisor to Arafat and his right hand man which now has seats in the Israeli Knesset, Israel reconnected electricity to Arafat's building.

	31-03-2002 01:05									#98
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Everyone:

This week's edition of Newsweek has a very interesting special report — around 20 pages or so in length — detailing the situation between Jews, Israel, Arabs and Palestinians. I would recommend reading it.

And, yes, it's a balanced report.

My own take on the report is that Israel is screwed no matter what it does. If external forces don't destroy the nation, internal struggles will pull it apart (i.e. Jew on Jew violence, Arab-Israeli birthrates and so on).

Gatekeeper

(P.S. Regarding Arafat's freaking out with Amanpour, I watched the episode last night [CNN was even nice enough to provide an on-screen transcript] and must conclude that he said what he said as posted earlier in this thread.)

	31-03-2002 01:16									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper This week's edition of Newsweek has a very interesting special report — around 20 pages or so in length — detailing the situation between Jews, Israel, Arabs and Palestinians. I would recommend reading it.

Is there an online source?

quote: And, yes, it's a balanced report.

So you say. I bet I could find things which aren't balanced

quote: My own take on the report is that Israel is screwed no matter what it does. If external forces don't destroy the nation, internal struggles will pull it apart (i.e. Jew on Jew violence, Arab-Israeli birthrates and so on).

My own conclusion, sadly...

	31-03-2002 01:35									#100
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Siro:

Hmm ... there is an online edition of Newsweek — newsweek.msnbc.com — but I'm not sure if that version contains anything of the special report that appears in the magazine version.

As for balance, perhaps you could find something "not balanced," so to speak . One part I found interesting was how Barak, Arafat and Clinton interacted at Camp David. One quote — Clinton's response to a farewell phone call from Arafat (this was three days before Clinton left office):

Arafat: "You are a great man."

Clinton: "The hell I am. I'm a colossal failure, and you made me one."

Gatekeeper

	31-03-2002 01:40									#101
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27 people were injured in the teract in Tel Aviv. One critically.

Saddam Hussein renamed the main street in Baghdad to "Yasser Arafat".

quote: Palestinian spokesmen have claimed we conquered everything etc. We didn't.

We will.
By tommorow all reservists should be ready and all vehicles available.

	31-03-2002 01:44									#102
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Just for speculations sake, what do you think the US response would be if Mexico had purposefully killed or injured that many of its civilians in that same period of time and showed absolutely no signs of slowing down?

Mexico? I compare this situation with what America had to deal with in Vietnam. Public opinion eventually turned against the war.

	31-03-2002 01:55									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Mexico? I compare this situation with what America had to deal with in Vietnam. Public opinion eventually turned against the war.

The Vietnamese didn't live right next door to the United States. They also didn't have the total destruction of the United States as their stated goal. Not a very good comparison if you ask me.

	31-03-2002 01:59									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten The Vietnamese didn't live right next door to the United States. They also didn't have the total destruction of the United States as their stated goal. Not a very good comparison if you ask me.

Also, it was clear for the US that if they withdraw, they will not be harmed in the future.
The leading organizations who fight against Israel make no distinction between territory occupied in 1967 and territory occupied in 1948.

	31-03-2002 02:01									#105
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quote: The Vietnamese didn't live right next door to the United States. They also didn't have the total destruction of the United States as their stated goal. Not a very good comparison if you ask me.

It actually is a good comparison if you consider what happens to public opinion when their country is in the midst of guerrila warfare. Look at the pullout in Lebanon, and that was hardly anything!

	31-03-2002 02:10									#106
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You don't have any idea how Israeli public opinion will react to a guerilla war in the West Bank. You think it will react negatively and use the US response to the Vietnam war as an example. This is stupid. There are huge differences between the US-Vietnam struggle and the Israel-Palestine struggle, differences large enough to make any comparison between the two laughable.

Do you think the Israelis really want to withdraw to the pre-1967 borders? If so, why haven't they done that very thing in the past 30 years? Maybe it's because they don't want a hostile enemy force controlling the high ground 10 miles from major Israeli population centers. That certainly seems logical to me. Do you really think that the Israeli public is so stupid as to forget about all of this if a guerrilla war heats up? If anything, I think a protracted struggle in the West Bank will just make the Israelis more desperate to hold on to that land. Better that the battles be fought in Rammalah than on the streets of Tel Aviv...

	31-03-2002 02:19									#107
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They will when faced with 50 years of massive terrorist bombings, every day, crusading for the occupation to stop. Military troops being targetted by bands of people.

Like I said, look at Lebanon, and don't think it is stupid to assume that Israelis will not tire of the constant guerrila fighting.

	31-03-2002 02:56									#108
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As sad as it is, if the thing would go on long enough - much less than 50 years - you'd see "Transfer"... Horrible, but true. If you want a take on the Israeli public opinion, well, in less than a year it moved from a mood that made Camp David possible to considering ethnic cleansing a viable option.
So much for anything.

	31-03-2002 04:57									#109
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I read the article in Newsweek, it was very informative on the situation in the ME. I still can't decide which side is more right (or more wrong) though. The Israelis had no right to build settlements on the West Bank, a fact that at least most of the Israelis on the board seem willing to admit. I can sympathize with the Palestinian predicament because the English did a similar thing to the Irish with regard to the plantations of the 16th and 17th centuries. What's done is done however.

But then I consider the events of the past two weeks. The Israelis backed off, yet the Palestinians continued to attack civilian targets culminating in the Passover massacre. This was incredibly stupid. If you're looking for peace you don't try and bait you enemies! I cannot imagine that the vast majority of the Palestinian people support these acts, but it's amazing how a few extremists can ruin everything.

I'm afraid that it seems to be a no-win situation for Israel. Sorry to sound so defeatist for all the Israeli posters but I can't see any way out. They should cut their losses and pull out of the Palestinian territories and make peace with the Arab countries. Dismantle the settlements. Make Jerusalem an international city administered by the UN owned by neither Palestine or Israel. If you don't the odds will continue to increase in the Palestinians favour. They're proliferating at an incredible rate - according to Newsweek they have 6.1 children per woman compared to Israel's 2.4. Israel simply won't have the population to control the territories with 10-15 years.

	31-03-2002 05:40									#110
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Imran, it took us 18 years to get tire of Lebanon, and that wasn't even an area we had plans for or gave holy symbolism to.

If the Palestinians are up for another 18-36 years ....

	31-03-2002 05:51									#111
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our_man, somberly, yes, you're right. Things are not looking good for us any path we choose.

I thought about taking the route you suggest, but then, nothing suggests that this peace will be true, lasting, or appease the palestinians & arabs.

I'm pretty sure that just as Arafat began setting more and more demands, including political ones, when Israel & America begged for a cease fire for the last two weeks, the Arab leaders will demand more of Israel.

	31-03-2002 14:49									#112
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Siro, Eli, et al.:

So, do you guys have any plans on immigrating to America (or elsewhere) should the worst possible scenario — the fall of Israel — become reality? Or will you stick it out to the end and, possibly, after the end?

Gatekeeper

	31-03-2002 15:12									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper Siro, Eli, et al.: So, do you guys have any plans on immigrating to America (or elsewhere) should the worst possible scenario — the fall of Israel — become reality? Or will you stick it out to the end and, possibly, after the end? Gatekeeper

I will definetely be here in the end, as a regular soldier or reservist, depends on the timing. After the end, nothing will stay here.

	31-03-2002 15:42									#114
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if there will come an end for Israel , I bet the ME will go out in a bang.

I'll immigrate to cyprus , after the end. if such an end exist.

	31-03-2002 16:55									#115
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Dal, did you hear something in Haifa? A guy I know pretty well claims he heard an explosion near that big mall there.

	31-03-2002 16:56									#116
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I have it confirmed. Tens of casualties in an explosion in a restaurant in Haifa.

	31-03-2002 17:03									#117
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I swear , the time I get into the university , I am going to get a gun permit.

holy ****.

going to check up , are all of my friends ok.

	31-03-2002 17:09									#118
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There are killed, but the number is unclear yet.

25+ injured.

A wittness says the whole roof went down.

	31-03-2002 17:15									#119
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UNCONFIRMED



Some reports talk about very high numbers of killed. Maybe as high as 15.