31-03-2002 23:53									#151
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I've also heard reports that IDF knows of Saddam's commandos.

About the "peace activists" - I can bet ya some of them were PLO contact men who are used to transfer messages.

And why did we let them in? Probably not to look as if we're preventing Arafat from food & water and to allow others to prove he's ok.

	31-03-2002 23:56									#152
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I just wonder if the IDF would have more of a problem, if these Palesinian gunmen were actually armed with better weapons. Thats a possblility if this infitada goes on for any longer.

	01-04-2002 00:00									#153
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove since there exists a faction among Palestinians who still want the complete expulsion of the Jews.

And that faction is called the PLO.

Notice it was invented in 1964 - before Israel's conquering of the territories.

Furthermore, every map of the area in PLO emblems, books, and even school books used in the PA are like the picture attached.



Taken from the official web-site:

http://www.ipc.gov.ps/ipc_a/ipc_a-1/a_map/pal-e.html

This is while, since 1993 all maps of Israel show the PA territories and Gaza strip as not Israeli.

All maps in schools were replaced. so were all maps in school books.

We've taught peace. Arafat didn't.

	01-04-2002 00:05									#154
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov About the "peace activists" - I can bet ya some of them were PLO contact men who are used to transfer messages.

And I can bet ya some of them were our guys.

	01-04-2002 00:09									#155
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quote: Originally posted by Waku Haven't you realised that it doesn't matter how many terrorists you kill, there will be more and more, that it doesn't matter how many tanks you have, there will always be someone who will be willing to suicide, that it doesn't really matter if you take Arafat or no, there will be someone else. It doesn't even matter if you kill every palestinian on earth, there are millions of muslims to take their place.

Same thing could have been told about Hitler & the Nazis.

But - the way to deal with them is

a) destroy their main powerbase
b) destroy their support by a state or a regime
c) re-educate people against violence / fanaticism
d) solve their problems.

The Germans had a very just case prior to WWII.
However appeasement didn't help - why?
Because germany was fanatical.
As soon as fanaticism was destroyed - people re-educated, Germany was rebuilt and got the land it deserved.

quote: Whether you like it or not muslims and jews must withstand each other, so not fanatists are suitable to represent them, I don't think last events will lead arafat (or whoever) to take the "common sense" path.

Arafat never had the common sense path.
That's why we have to rid of him.

quote: Every day it seems more obvious to me that nor palestinians nor hebrews want peace, oh well, so be it.

Nonsense.
The peoples themselves want peace.

but "someone's" leader is provoking them to war.
Let's see who that someone is.

Is it someone that calls for martyrs to explode? Yes.
Is it someone that does not arrest terrorists but frees them from jails? Yes.
Is it someone that broadcasted commercials calling kids to go to heaven for their country? Yes.

His name is Arafat.

He hasn't changed.

	01-04-2002 00:12									#156
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quote: Originally posted by Eli And I can bet ya some of them were our guys.

And I bet ya we were too stoooopeeeed to do that.

	01-04-2002 00:15									#157
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quote: Originally posted by Oldenbarnevelt Eli, why is Barghouti still alive? Will the IDF capture Arafat today, or tomorrow?

Barghouti is now can't be found.

don't worry. We'll get him. Even if it takes exploding house after house

And we will not capture arafat.

	01-04-2002 00:16									#158
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The leader of the Al-Aqsa martyrs brigade gave Israel a 12 hours ultimatum(11 left).

"...if the IDF does not withdraw from Arafat's compound in Rammalah, we will make military actions in Tel Aviv, Haifa, Jerusalem and everywhere, unprecedented actions above everything what the Israelis had imagined ... our men prepared hundreds of istishahadim(suicide bombers) who are ready to hit Israel in every spot if the Israeli aggression against the rais(president) and our people continues"

quote: And I bet ya we were too stoooopeeeed to do that.

Unfortunately.

	01-04-2002 00:17									#159
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper Siro, Eli, et al.: So, do you guys have any plans on immigrating to America (or elsewhere) should the worst possible scenario — the fall of Israel — become reality? Or will you stick it out to the end and, possibly, after the end? Gatekeeper

Well - frankly no.

That's the whole deal.

Jews have no where else to go. There's no place in the world where they are expected and welcomed other than Israel.

And frankly, even here the treatment is somewhat shitty.


I guess I'll be in the army by the time of the big bang, or in high education but will be drafted.

I'll do my best.

While my parents may want me to - I don't like escaping. That goes against my very belief.

Our power is united. If everyone turned their backs and ran away - sure they'd be alive... maybe... for some time.

But only together can we make sure we win.

	01-04-2002 00:19									#160
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quote: Originally posted by Eli The leader of the Al-Aqsa martyrs brigade gave Israel a 12 hours ultimatum(11 left). "...if the IDF does not withdraw from Arafat's compound in Rammalah, we will make military actions in Tel Aviv, Haifa, Jerusalem and everywhere, unprecedented actions above everything what the Israelis had imagined ... our men prepared hundreds of istishahadim(suicide bombers) who are ready to hit Israel in every spot if the Israeli aggression against the rais(president) and our people continues"

Hehehe.


Bring it on, baby

	01-04-2002 00:30									#161
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I am not quite sure to see that come to pass.
Oh well. Dammit. C'est la vie. And death. And everything in between. People are stupid. And I'm losing my mind. Not that any of you know me well enough to care.

	01-04-2002 00:37									#162
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov Same thing could have been told about Hitler & the Nazis.

there are more paralelisms with Sharon imho, in any case it seems there's something you said automatically when you've got no answers

quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov But - the way to deal with them is a) destroy their main powerbase b) destroy their support by a state or a regime c) re-educate people against violence / fanaticism d) solve their problems.

Sure, destruction is the very best way to solve everything. Sorry I forgot.

quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov Arafat never had the common sense path. That's why we have to rid of him.

Very constructive again

quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov quote: Every day it seems more obvious to me that nor palestinians nor hebrews want peace, oh well, so be it. Nonsense. The peoples themselves want peace.

quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov but "someone's" leader is provoking them to war.

Mr Sharon?

	01-04-2002 00:47									#163
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Waku: What evidence do you have that Arafat is actually interested in peace because I haven't seen any since he started another Intifada after the most generous offer ever from the Isrealis and helped Sharon into office?

	01-04-2002 00:59									#164
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Have I said Arafat is interested in peace?

I just meant "Sharon's savoir fair" won't lead the muslim world to peace.

Arafat is not as important as you may think, others will come.

	01-04-2002 01:01									#165
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Waku: What evidence do you have that Arafat is actually interested in peace because I haven't seen any since he started another Intifada after the most generous offer ever from the Isrealis and helped Sharon into office?

Is Israel being generous with other people land again


Pah ...I don`t know, these modern Israeli`s, always giving.

	01-04-2002 01:01									#166
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I'm amazed at all the gloom and doom I'm seeing on this board. The change in attitude just in the last few days has been more than a little frightening, with all this talk about "the end of Israel." I will admit I'm sitting comfortably in my apartment 10,000 miles away but I have to step back and ask, Has it really gotten THAT bad over there?

	01-04-2002 01:06									#167
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quote: Originally posted by Waku Arafat is not as important as you may think, others will come.

Like Hamas.

	01-04-2002 01:09									#168
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quote: Originally posted by Andrew1999 I'm amazed at all the gloom and doom I'm seeing on this board. The change in attitude just in the last few days has been more than a little frightening, with all this talk about "the end of Israel." I will admit I'm sitting comfortably in my apartment 10,000 miles away but I have to step back and ask, Has it really gotten THAT bad over there?

No. You're over exaggerating. A lot.

	01-04-2002 01:11									#169
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if the palestinians want "their" land back why dont they get the backign of their arab friends like they did back in 1948 and fight properly for it ? why do they have to target civilians.???

	01-04-2002 01:14									#170
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According to the Arab media, the Hamas threatens to kill Sharon in one of the next suicide attacks.

	01-04-2002 01:15									#171
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Like Hamas.

spot on. That's why Arafat is the only one to be taken into the "common sense" path, and Sharon isn't helping at all, is him?

	01-04-2002 01:19									#172
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quote: Originally posted by Waku spot on. That's why Arafat is the only one to be taken into the "common sense" path, and Sharon isn't helping at all, is him?

Arafat had been leading the Pals in the current conflict. We lost almost 125 civilians in March (there are whole 47 minutes to go), what is the big difference between this and the Hamas?
At least European "peace" activists will not come to protect them.

	01-04-2002 01:19									#173
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quote: Originally posted by Waku That's why Arafat is the only one to be taken into the "common sense" path,

I ask again. What evidence do you have that Arafat is at all interested in the common sense path?

	01-04-2002 01:23									#174
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with all this mess...killing sharon might even help......

	01-04-2002 01:25									#175
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According to Israeli security sources, there are 60-70 "heavy" wanted terrorists hiding in Arafat's and Rajoub's offices in Rammalah and Bitunia. According to the Israeli intelligence services, among the wanted is Ahmed Saadat the head of the PFLP and the murderers of the minister Rehavam Ze'evi. The IDF got clear orders to catch those wanted "at any price".

Also, the Palestinians report that IDF forces started entering Kalkiliya.

	01-04-2002 01:25									#176
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Unfortunately there are not evidences of understanding from any side, that's why this conflict lasts forever. And both of them should know it's the only way. They are condemned to withstand eachother, otherwise there's not solution.

	01-04-2002 01:28									#177
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quote: Originally posted by Rasputin if the palestinians want "their" land back why dont they get the backign of their arab friends like they did back in 1948 and fight properly for it ? why do they have to target civilians.???

I wonder why they havent thought of that.


The politics of the region are a little more complicated then that. As far as I can tell there is little love lost between the Arabs, practically the only thing that can unite them is the Israeli`s, which ironically enough is almost the same situation from the Israeli perspective.

And the targeting of civilians was used by Hamas as a way to derail any efforts at peace. The unfortunate thing now is that it is becoming so frquent that it is loosing its shock value (I mean this in terms of humanity the world is becoming desensitized (SP)).

The only way forward is to impose a settlement (no Israeli pun intended) from the outside.

	01-04-2002 01:30									#178
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quote: Originally posted by Waku there are more paralelisms with Sharon imho, in any case it seems there's something you said automatically when you've got no answers

No that's exactly the answer.

There is no way to deal with fanatical violence, before you destroy it.

First you destroy it, then you destroy it's cause.

If you can't analyze parallels it's not my fault.

quote: Sure, destruction is the very best way to solve everything. Sorry I forgot.

Oh, I'm sorry I forgot how well your parades affected ETA.
What is that? Not at all??? Really?

And It's not like the basques are anywhere near to be "opressed" or "occupied" so there goes the leftist "terrorism grows from occupation" theory.

quote: Very constructive again

According to you, resisting to the Nazis wasn't constructive too, right?

What would you do? Give them more land?

quote:

Just because you're ignorant that doesn't mean you should be so damn proud about it

You live miles away and read biased newspapers.

I live here, and I know what I feel, what my arab neighbours feel, and what my Israeli friends feel.

I also read local polls and listen to local news.

quote: Mr Sharon?

How funny of you to omit the rest of my post:

Let's see who that someone is.

Is it someone that calls for martyrs to explode? Yes.
Is it someone that does not arrest terrorists but frees them from jails? Yes.
Is it someone that broadcasted commercials calling kids to go to heaven for their country? Yes.

His name is Arafat.

	01-04-2002 01:33									#179
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quote: Originally posted by Eli Arafat had been leading the Pals in the current conflict. We lost almost 125 civilians in March (there are whole 47 minutes to go), what is the big difference between this and the Hamas? At least European "peace" activists will not come to protect them.

How many Palestinians civilians were killed in that period.
Not to mention the rounding up of people, restricyions on movement and general humiliations heaped on them by the occupation. Or is goyan subject to different rules.

	01-04-2002 01:33									#180
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quote: Originally posted by BlackStone Is Israel being generous with other people land again

I wish to remind you this isn't other people's land.

Prior to 1948 Jerusalem had Jews in it.
So did most of the areas that are now settlements.

They were either massacared or expelled by the Arab forces in 1948.

So yes, giving away those lands is giving away "our" lands.