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Dr Strangelove
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Remember that in 1948 the British Protectorate was split into two states - Israel and Palestine. Israel didn't get even one day of peace before the Arab League declared war. Israel won that war and gained a considerable portion of what would have been Palestine. Palestinians fled the areas of Palestine occupied by the Israelis and the original area of Israel. After that war no one in the Arab world recognized Israel's right to exist, nor even offered the slighest gesture of concilliation. Under such circumstances how could the repatriation of the Palestinians have been negotiated? Israel would have by necessity required a credible reassurance from someone in authority over the Palestinians and their Arabic allies that their rights would be honored. It was not forth coming.
To our members who are Europeans and also those who are citizens of British Commonwealth nations who are now expressing their dsipleasure with the Israelis governments I request that you reflect for a moment on the historic role your goverments had in the formation of this situation. You drove the Jewish people to this point.
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Dr Strangelove
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quote:
Originally posted by Felch X
Sadly instead of languishing in refugee camps, the whites who stole the Americas and Australia from the original inhabitants just gunned them down and chased them into wasteland. |
Actually many of them just had sex with us and bore half breed children, which explains why most southerners claim at least some Indian blood. ( Note, at night in the slave cabins it's impossible to tell if a woman is Indian or Black. )
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Dr Strangelove
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
That's not really true. The pubic hair of some people is a bit more coarse than others. And I'm not saying anymore. |
Most of these guys were drunk. It dulls the senses you know.
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Dr Strangelove
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
There was never a Palestinian state. The UN Partition was a non-binding partition that was never accepted by the majority of the inhabitants of Palestine.
quote:
Israel didn't get even one day of peace before the Arab League declared war. |
Let's not forget that by the time that Israel had proclaimed its independence, it was already occupying areas of the Palestinian designated area.
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Under such circumstances how could the repatriation of the Palestinians have been negotiated? |
Israel was required by its own agreement with the UN to try and repatriate the war refugees. Furthermore, by the Lausanne Agreement, which Israel signed, the original partition plan was to be the basis for peace negotiations. However, no one wanted peace. Egypt and Jordan, as well as Israel, would have had to give up their territorial conquets. It was in the interests of all of the states of the region to continue f*cking over the Palestinians. It still is. |
Basically you're saying that Palestine never recognized the rights of the Jews, thumbed their noses at the UN, and along with their Arab Leagus buddies prepared for what they hoped to be their own "final solution" to the "Jewish problem". After the war, realising that the Palestinians were unrepentent the Israelis made no great effort to invite avowed enemies to move back next door. Can you see that much heartbreak could have been avoided if there had been a rational voice in the Arab world back then?
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Sikander
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Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:18
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Siro: "We can't settle population which hates us amongst us..."
You have an obligation to do so. You morally committed yourselves to the welfare of all refugees when you declared sovereignty over the territory they inhabited in 1948. |
How come this argument never comes up elsewhere? People b1tch and moan about the Australian refusal to accept refugees from the ME, but I don't hear any of these people arguing that these people's countries should be held accountable. Apparently only democracies are responsible for refugees.
Why do Western (and I mean that in the broadest sense) liberals have such a hard time criticizing anything but their own culture? This attitude is dangerous. Every day I see people both Western and "Other" placing the horrors of terrorism (read: Intentional murder of civilians) before the "but" in their diatribe against the West and / or Israel. Frankly there are a lot of things to criticize in the "Other" world, especially in the Islamic world. Instead of bringing these issues up, we politely listen to emotional excagerations, selected rumors and outright lies from the Arabs regarding the conflict with Israel. Attempts to bring up an opposing viewpoint on a forum where Arabs or liberals are represented is often blunted not by reason or proof, but by the insinuation that the person on the other side of the table is a racist. Arafat's performance recently on CNN is only the most memorable recent example of the "how dare you" school of debate.
Western civilization has a lot to offer the rest of the world. Unfortunately belief in ourselves is not one of those things. This is too bad, because we lead the world in freedom, standard of living, human rights, science, education and a thousand other things. Pretending that we think Arab culture is our equal in our own eyes is stupid. You can still be respectful to other cultures without emasculating yourself in a fit of neurotic self-criticism whenever you mention your own. Others will respect you more, and will actually have to come up with real arguments when you press them about the very real inhumanity propogaed by their own culture rather than falling back on moral indignation. In the long run perhaps the "Others" will be less likely to "Deconstruct" our landmarks and civilians if they know that disrespecting the West is not the pinnacle of intellectual achievement.
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Sikander
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Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:18
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I'll choose "Western" culture before any other one in existence right now if that's your problem, Sikander. I frankly find most of the world's countries backwards, vengeful and close-minded. Didn't some white guy with a blonde beard and a halo  once say something about putting your own house in order before judging others, though? |
Sorry if the whole post seemed to single you out, I got into rant mode and expanded my remarks well beyond my personal opinion of you, which is that you are a pretty reasonable fellow.
As for the "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." thing, Jesus was dealing with a lynch mob, not a discussion group. There is a diminishing return with perfecting yourself instead of trying to elevate those around you, and in many ways I think we have reached that point. I think trying to improve the rest of the world will pay larger dividends now then pushing our culture farther out into the lead. We have plenty of faults to be sure, but the state of the rest of the world has a lot of effect upon us, which even the most selfish and xenophobic are beginning to realize requires some effort on our part to close the gap, lest we are pulled down further into the culture of the blood feud than we already have been.
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Az
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MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Sikander
How come this argument never comes up elsewhere? People b1tch and moan about the Australian refusal to accept refugees from the ME, but I don't hear any of these people arguing that these people's countries should be held accountable. Apparently only democracies are responsible for refugees.
Why do Western (and I mean that in the broadest sense) liberals have such a hard time criticizing anything but their own culture? This attitude is dangerous. Every day I see people both Western and "Other" placing the horrors of terrorism (read: Intentional murder of civilians) before the "but" in their diatribe against the West and / or Israel. Frankly there are a lot of things to criticize in the "Other" world, especially in the Islamic world. Instead of bringing these issues up, we politely listen to emotional excagerations, selected rumors and outright lies from the Arabs regarding the conflict with Israel. Attempts to bring up an opposing viewpoint on a forum where Arabs or liberals are represented is often blunted not by reason or proof, but by the insinuation that the person on the other side of the table is a racist. Arafat's performance recently on CNN is only the most memorable recent example of the "how dare you" school of debate.
Western civilization has a lot to offer the rest of the world. Unfortunately belief in ourselves is not one of those things. This is too bad, because we lead the world in freedom, standard of living, human rights, science, education and a thousand other things. Pretending that we think Arab culture is our equal in our own eyes is stupid. You can still be respectful to other cultures without emasculating yourself in a fit of neurotic self-criticism whenever you mention your own. Others will respect you more, and will actually have to come up with real arguments when you press them about the very real inhumanity propogaed by their own culture rather than falling back on moral indignation. In the long run perhaps the "Others" will be less likely to "Deconstruct" our landmarks and civilians if they know that disrespecting the West is not the pinnacle of intellectual achievement. |
*applause*
*patiently waits to the "what kind of communist are you ,anyway? " remark*
 Attachment: worshipanim.gif
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Alephz
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quote:
Palestinains don't recognize Israel. |
No, Israel don't recognize Palestina.
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05-04-2002 08:58
That's never been disputed by me.
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