08-04-2002 13:37									#91
	Meech-Lake Syndrome setting in Support Apolyton

Ceasing to care...

Getting tired...

	08-04-2002 13:38									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Alberta's votes may as well be tossed out. It doesn't matter that we consistently vote in someone OTHER than the majority governments. All that we get for it is the cold shoulder from the government. Since they don't NEED our votes, why should they bother doing what the Albertan people want? The needs of Alberta are secondary to the needs of Ontario and Quebec, where their votes come from. Don't you see that? Open your eyes. Things need to change, before you alienate more people.

I really hate to continually rain on your parade Asher, but...

Mulroney's power base was Alberta and Quebec. His government is one where Alberta had tremendous influence. What is ironic is that Reform came about in reaction to his government. Heh.

Refoooooorm.

Did I do it right?

	08-04-2002 13:39									#93
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quote: KH, I'm advocating changing the system. You're saying we can't change the system because "our system doesn't work like that", in so many words

No, I'm saying that I don't want to give the smaller provinces any more representation than they already have, because there's no historical reason to do so.

	08-04-2002 13:41									#94
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse No, I'm saying that I don't want to give the smaller provinces any more representation than they already have, because there's no historical reason to do so.

Such complete and utter bullshit.

It's completely amazing how arrogant you can be when you're the one sitting in the majority.

Your entire argument comes down to "I don't want to give them more rights since I like how things are going now and I'm in the majority."

	08-04-2002 13:41									#95
	It's progressed to Charlottetown's disease. I'm doomed Enter the AD-FREE zone

I'm withdrawing from the discussion now.

	08-04-2002 13:42									#96
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I really hate to continually rain on your parade Asher, but... Mulroney's power base was Alberta and Quebec. His government is one where Alberta had tremendous influence. What is ironic is that Reform came about in reaction to his government. Heh. Refoooooorm. Did I do it right?

Mulroney was a JOKE.
He was from Quebec, first of all.
Second of all, he introduced the GST. What kind of conservative would do that?!

Argh, the man was a liberal in disguise.

	08-04-2002 13:43									#97
	One last comment Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Asher Such complete and utter bullshit. It's completely amazing how arrogant you can be when you're the one sitting in the majority. Your entire argument comes down to "I don't want to give them more rights since I like how things are going now and I'm in the majority."

No, I'm not in the majority. I don't vote Liberal.

What you're saying is that smaller provinces deserve a voice larger than their population would warrant. I'm saying that they don't. 1 vote = 1 vote = 1 vote no matter where you live. At least, that's what we should shoot for.

	08-04-2002 13:45									#98
	Re: One last comment Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse No, I'm not in the majority. I don't vote Liberal. What you're saying is that smaller provinces deserve a voice larger than their population would warrant. I'm saying that they don't. 1 vote = 1 vote = 1 vote no matter where you live. At least, that's what we should shoot for.

Alberta makes up, what, 15% of the entire GDP?
Alberta gets, what, 5% of the voting power?

What I'm saying is the current government is ignoring Alberta, and you think that's fine since most of the country likes it how it is.

By your logic it's okay to have slavery as long as you let everyone vote. Who cares that the 10% of the population votes against slavery because they're subject to slavery themselves? Most of the country wants slavery. By all means, let's have slavery!

	08-04-2002 13:45									#99
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And the non-Canadians sit there scratching their heads.

What the hell are these guys talking about, they wonder. First their talking about governments and then suddenly their talking about illnesses.

Meach-Lake syndrome? Is that named after two guys who discovered some illness.

Charlottetown's disease - must be like Legionnaire's disease.

	08-04-2002 13:48									#100
	Re: Re: One last comment Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Asher Alberta makes up, what, 15% of the entire GDP? Alberta gets, what, 5% of the voting power? What I'm saying is the current government is ignoring Alberta, and you think that's fine since most of the country likes it how it is. By your logic it's okay to have slavery as long as you let everyone vote. Who cares that the 10% of the population votes against slavery because they're subject to slavery themselves? Most of the country wants slavery. By all means, let's have slavery!

It was bad enough when the Quebecers called themselves the white niggers of North America, but Albertans calling themselves slaves really take the case.

	08-04-2002 13:48									#101
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Asher. Do you know what the GST replaced?

	08-04-2002 13:49									#102
	Re: Re: Re: One last comment Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Tingkai It was bad enough when the Quebecers called themselves the white niggers of North America, but Albertans calling themselves slaves really take the case.

I'm not calling Albertan slaves.

I was creating an example on voting. And it's the exact same principle, but KH is probably too dense to pick up on it.

	08-04-2002 13:51									#103
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Asher. Do you know what the GST replaced?

Yes.

The GST is evil, and the wholesale sales tax system was also evil.

	08-04-2002 13:53									#104
	Re: Re: Re: Re: One last comment Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Asher I'm not calling Albertan slaves. I was creating an example on voting. And it's the exact same principle, but KH is probably too dense to pick up on it.

It's a wonderful place I'm in right now, Asher. I don't even care that you insulted me.

I think I understand why constitutional issues dropped off the front page somewhere back in the early 90s.

	08-04-2002 13:53									#105
	Re: Re: Re: Re: One last comment Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Asher I'm not calling Albertan slaves. I was creating an example on voting. And it's the exact same principle, but KH is probably too dense to pick up on it.

The problem with your proposal is that if we accept that Alberta gets more power because it is economically richer, would it not open the door to the idea that the rich man deserves more votes than the poor man?

	08-04-2002 13:54									#106
	Tired of ads?

FST ranged in value, but many items were taxed at 13%.

Also, imported goods were not taxed. Exported goods were. Talk about a job killer. It was also hidden. So many people never even knew it was there. Hence the hew and cry over the GST.

I cheered for the GST.

Especially when you consider that everyone is now faced with the cost of government every time they buy something. You might appreciate that.

	08-04-2002 13:55									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Mulroney was a JOKE. He was from Quebec, first of all. Second of all, he introduced the GST. What kind of conservative would do that?! Argh, the man was a liberal in disguise.

I'm missing something. What is anti-conservative about raising money through a regressive tax like the GST? I thought that was pro-conservative because the rich aren't disproportionately burdened in real dollar terms?

But I'm too tired to keep this up.

Charlottetown disease claims another victim.

	08-04-2002 13:57									#108
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One last comment Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Tingkai The problem with your proposal is that if we accept that Alberta gets more power because it is economically richer, would it not open the door to the idea that the rich man deserves more votes than the poor man?

Let's put it this way:
If you give $100 into a fund, and another guy gives $10 into a fund, why do they have equal say in how that fund is used, particularly when the usage of the fund determines how well both of them make money.

My point isn't specifically about contribution to the budget ,though.

It's about how Chretien doesn't feel the need to campaign here and see the needs of the people. He is so ARROGANT he simply IGNORES the entire province, while people like KH sit on their thumbs and say "Everything is A-okay!" Grrr...

	08-04-2002 13:58									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Echinda I'm missing something. What is anti-conservative about raising money through a regressive tax like the GST? I thought that was pro-conservative because the rich aren't disproportionately burdened in real dollar terms?

It is far more progressive than the tax it replaced.

	08-04-2002 13:59									#110
	Ashie, honey Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

You're cute when you're angry. And as a point of order, I'm sitting on my ass, not my thumbs.

	08-04-2002 14:00									#111
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse You're cut when you're angry. And as a point of order, I'm sitting on my ass, not my thumbs.

Yes, but the question is where is your thumb?

	08-04-2002 14:24									#112
	Re: Re: One last comment Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Asher Alberta makes up, what, 15% of the entire GDP? Alberta gets, what, 5% of the voting power?

Um, I hate to point out the obvious but your point infers that Alberta should receive a higher representation because of its higher production. The plutocratic system implied here is far more akin to slavery than the present system.
Imagine if (scaling proportionally) Alberta made up 51% of the GDP with 20-odd percent of the population. Ergo the country is run by Alberta ...

	08-04-2002 14:33									#113
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I can see Asher as the Albertan version of 'Braveheart'

L-G: "You stand accused of treason to your lawful Queen"

Asher: "Never, in my whole life, did I swear allegiance to him"

L-G (confused): "It matters not....she is your Queen"

By the way Asher, it is conservatives who kept the monarchy in place. Traditional, Anglican Tories are the monarchies staunchest allies in Ontario.

BTW, I am club treasurer of the Western United Empire Loyalists...(UEL).

Who do we have lunches with? It ain't the Young Liberals I'll tell you....true Blue all the way.

	08-04-2002 14:41									#114
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One last comment Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Asher Let's put it this way: If you give $100 into a fund, and another guy gives $10 into a fund, why do they have equal say in how that fund is used, particularly when the usage of the fund determines how well both of them make money. My point isn't specifically about contribution to the budget ,though. It's about how Chretien doesn't feel the need to campaign here and see the needs of the people. He is so ARROGANT he simply IGNORES the entire province, while people like KH sit on their thumbs and say "Everything is A-okay!" Grrr...

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Albertans have no one to blame but themselves. If you never vote Liberal, they're not going to pay attention to you.

As for your money idea, you know the problems with it.

	08-04-2002 14:54									#115
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Asher No wonder you guys keep electing Chretien.

Not me, I voted Alexa McDonough

	08-04-2002 17:02									#116
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Just how much does the Queen cost Canada? and why?
Personally I don't care weather Canada goes Republic, just please learn from American and don't have a President.
They cost a hundred more times than a the Queen ever could and you cold end up with a complete idiot with absolute power. Prime Ministers are much better, they have to answer to Parliament on a regular basis, and Parliament can stop them from going to far. Presidents only have to answer once ever four years.
Also shouldn't Canada be spilt up two into a French speaking part and a English speaking part, isn't that a more important issue than a Queen that has no power.

	08-04-2002 17:12									#117
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Blisterz Not me, I voted Alexa McDonough

So you're the one.

	08-04-2002 20:39									#118
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

So Asher wants a one dollar, one vote system You Albertans are too much like Americans

	08-04-2002 20:49									#119
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quote: Originally posted by Garth Vader So Asher wants a one dollar, one vote system You Albertans are too much like Americans

How is that American? They are going through a huge political fight down here to reform campaign finance and the only issue is what kind of curbs on free speech are acceptable. No one is arguing that Boss Tweed / Mayor Daly style vote buying is acceptable.

Or were you just engaging in some knee-jerk America bashing?

	08-04-2002 20:55									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Deathwalker Just how much does the Queen cost Canada? and why? Personally I don't care weather Canada goes Republic, just please learn from American and don't have a President. They cost a hundred more times than a the Queen ever could and you cold end up with a complete idiot with absolute power. Prime Ministers are much better, they have to answer to Parliament on a regular basis, and Parliament can stop them from going to far. Presidents only have to answer once ever four years.

Jean Chretien is no more accountable than a president. Party discipline reduces question period to a charade. Chretien is as likely to get a non-confidence vote as Bush is to get impeached.

quote: Also shouldn't Canada be spilt up two into a French speaking part and a English speaking part, isn't that a more important issue than a Queen that has no power.

It is such an important issue that it is being discussed in another thread.