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Gavrushka
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Darlington,Co. Durham,UK
Apr 2001
time: 05:18
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quote:
Originally posted by yoda
Here is an interesting problem: How are you going to prevent the PBEM players from viewing their enemy's positions? I have only tried the email version once or twice, but I noticed that if I opened the email I am suppose to send to an opponent, I could enter and review his position without anyone else knowing. There is a HUGE cheat potential when playing with this option. Has this problem been solved? Also, what is stopping someone from making a copy of the saved game and opening it with an editor to review? Playing online solves this problem for the most part. |
All games will be online no PBEM - it would be too slow anyway, and yes, if a player is dishonest then it is a massive cheat, the worst of them all.. But I like to think that no one will even consider cheating. But all games will still be moderated saves checked turn by turn, and in the event someone tries to cheat they will not get away with it. That I absolutely promise you. Remember this site is kind of official, and there are a lot of resources here.
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C-MATRIX
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"He came in darkness to think and reflect" Sacred book of Maya
Mar 2002
time: 15:18
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The 4 reasons I have, to prefer PBEM in comparison to Internet game:
1/ I have enough time to take care about everything I consider important for every turn.
2/ I don’t have to stay on Internet and be unavailable for the people who need to speak to me by phone (I don’t have two lines), and off course I can make calls without the need to switch off the line before that.
3/ I don’t like the situation of moving units and sliders for 30 min and then loose all that state in the game, just because of the unstable Internet connection ( I had only one internet game till now, but experienced that problem at least 7-8 times for the first 30 turns)
4/ I don’t like the idea of spending time and money to reconnect every time when the connection is dropped ( I don’t think there is a value for money to get fast IDSL, HDSL or cable connection, considering (amount of MB/30 days) as a criterion to compare both situations).
Why many Internet players don’t like PBEM?
I think, mainly because:
1/ They like fast games (similar to the real time games, what CTP isn’t ).
2/ They don’t like the idea that some body could watch their turns.
If watching the opponent’s turns is considered cheating, I wonder how did you prevent that in PBEM games, which are already ranked? 
If you haven’t done proper checking (if possible) for those games, then you have basically already accepted that kind of cheating in the PBEM Ranking system.
And if so, there are only two ways:
1/ You either discontinue the PBEM ranking 
OR
2/ Accept that, watching opponent’s turn isn’t a cheating.
In my personal opinion, cheating in CTP games is definitely when somebody change something in the game (Using methods and controls, which are not part of the original screen menus of the game) at the time before, during or after his first turn and that influence the normal run of the game.
I am not sure about watching opponent turns as far as any player can do it, so no body has an advantage of that.
In my games I don’t do it because I still don’t play for ranking and generally I don’t care if somebody watch my position because I don’t consider it secret.
If I play for ranking in PBEM, I shell need either solid control over watching player turns (for example password protection), or acceptance that any one is allowed to do it.
“1 on 1” Ranking System (Analysis)
1/ If there is not time limit for playing a turn, then any game could last foreverJ
I think keeping 24 hr rule should stay (or even be decreased).
2/ I looked at the PBEM and Internet rankings and saw that we have 48 members in PBEM list and 17 members in the Internet list. Some of those players appeared in both records. That means that probably we won’t have more then 60-70 participants in “1 on 1” competition.
3/ If every player should have a game with the rest of the competitors then the competition will be doomed to last forever.
If the total number of games is N and the number of players is M, then
N=M(M+1)/2 –M [games]
If M=60 then N=1770 games (obviously we can’t afford such competition)
More realistically, if M= 64 players we could have only 63 games to solve the problem “Who is the Best?”.
In that situation the 64 players will have:
Round 1 >> 32 games
Round 2 >> 16 games
Round 3 >> 8 games
Round 4 >> 4 games
Round 5 >> 2 games
Round 6 >> 1 game
Every round all pairs of players will have a map equal for all pairs.
Every different round the map will be different. So we need 6 different maps.
All games in every round will start at the same moment and have to finish for maximum of “X” turns. I think the number of turns shouldn’t be bigger then 80, because if we play 10 turns per week it is still 4 weeks per round. That makes 1 year to solve the problem. The map should be small or regular again because of the time limit and we should have 2 AI to have bigger resistance during the game, so we wouldn’t have much free area to go building hundreds of cities before to meet on the map.
In 80 turns we either will have a winner and a dead player, or we shell look at the difference in the points according to the Activision original system (or the Power graph).
I think we shouldn’t use symmetrical maps because in one turn you get 2,4 or more times information about the map depend on the type of symmetry and the game will be boring.
I offer you to play simultaneously 2 games on the SAME MAP where every player of any pair will play as a first player in one of the games and as a second player in the other game. Every turn will be served from the moderator of the game and every played turn will be sent only to the moderator from both players and has to be played for particular time (24 hr for example). When the moderator receives turn “N” from both players then he swaps the results and sent them back to the players for turn “N+1”.
In this way there is no need for symmetrical map and every player can play as a first from first location and as a second from the second location.
The result of those two games will be the average of them.
If in one of those two simultaneous games there is a winner and a dead player, then obviously the ”Killer” will be the winner of both games.
So, if one of the games finishes before T80 with a “Killing event” there is no need to continue the other one.
If there isn’t a “Killer” in no one of both games to T80, then the average score of both games will show the winner.
The looser gets nothing (If we need only to find out who is the winner of 64 players)
If you want we can have games for second and third place also.
So, “There can be only One”  and he must be the winner of all 6 rounds.
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drAgON1
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Mobile,AL,USA
Mar 2001
time: 05:18
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I agree with the SOL's bombing rule. However I think this map will be set up as Huge or Gig so tech should take you to modern before SOLs can really become a threat.
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Patryn
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United States
Apr 2002
time: 23:18
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Hey, this is Patryn. I am all for it if you will have me.
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Gavrushka
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Darlington,Co. Durham,UK
Apr 2001
time: 05:18
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Sorry Faded, I did not mean to be disrepsectful... I was going to add, that and Faded will bore you to death, as his warrior regurgitates insults from the depths of his depraved memory, as Leviathans swarm round the base of the tree he is hiding in... 
Faded is a good defender, and will try to use the natural terrain to his advantage, and wait for the opponent to show his weakness.
Swissy is my nemesis... His play style is vastly different to anyone I have played before, he is patient and ever so calm, using Stealth Units, and one other little tactic you will just have to discover that will frustrate the life out of you... I will just say he found a way to level the playing field even if you g#have a massive unit number superiority.
BTW I think cookies don't work for this site as they did on the previous one.... Am I the Only sad git with a memory for such things, even though I only used it once over a year ago??
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Catete
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The best of CTP?
Of course I am...
What am I going to buy with that money? LOLOL
Hi all, I'm new at this site and thanks to Gavrushka, he helped me to register.
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Gavrushka
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Darlington,Co. Durham,UK
Apr 2001
time: 05:18
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Welcome Catete!! Catete is a superb player, and a great Guy, I can vouch for him 100% .
Patryn likewise is a great player, together with the other posters, there really are represented now the best of CTP players... watch for posts by Doom and Paulno1.. they are the two that have asked for entry but not yet posted..
There is only one Player missing, and this competition will suffer if he does not enter, and that is Blackice.... I really hope he joins in on the fun, because he would have a good chance of lifting the title .
Milamber ! A newbie! It is great that you are showing an interest! A newbie with a Teenage daughter, you make me feel old...  .. Would you like to try a game against me online so you get an idea of what you are letting yourself in for?? This competition has attracted the very best players across the world.. From Germany to NewZealand, from the States to Spain..
Solver will ratify who enters, and then it will be sort rules, and game on!
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filix
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Hi,
I would like to play without wonders
Hello Catete
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Gavrushka
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Darlington,Co. Durham,UK
Apr 2001
time: 05:18
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Personal thoughts.... IF we play on a pre-made map then we should include wonders (PBEM players use them well) as long as there are no ruins... If we play on a Randon map (with ruins) we play without - It is too much of a Random element. I also think that IF we play on a random map, it should be a land map... The reason I say that is because land tends to be the great equaliser, making the two start positions more equal... I ALSO think id we play on a randon map, each player should be allowed three restarts in a row, maybe the decision is taken by turn 5... IF the other player takes a restart, then the first player is allowed three more etc.. But remember, the rules are set by Solver, the rest of us just make suggestions. -
Solver regarding the Gameleague Players... Dragon,Filix,Doom,Paulno1, Catete, Patryn, Yoda - They are all superb players, probably every one of them has an edge on me... Without them we would have the Apolyton League champion.. So I feel they all should be represented.... I would also like to see them all join the Apolyton CTP Internet Rankings - They would add a lot to the game, even though it would mean I would quickly be knocked off number 1 !
Milamber, I think you have seniority on me, unless you were a precocious child! .... I can be available (GMT) any time from 18:00 Saturdays through to 20:00 Sundays, including the unsocial hours in the middle of the night, when it MAY be easier to have uninterrupted play for an hour or two. BTW- Your eldest son is of similar age to my wife, who happens to be a lot younger than me...
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Patryn
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United States
Apr 2002
time: 23:18
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Yeah, I used to be in GL, but I could never keep logged in enough to keep my account open. I had several wins to log, just to find upon arrival at the site to post them, that my account was gone. I just never much bothered with it. As for the configuration, I think it should be the same for every level of the competition. Like when everyone plays the first round of opponents, we keep it the same for everyone, until all opponents have been played. That also gives us an opportunity to have several different land types as we go along. If we had, say, 5 rounds, then each person could play every other person 5 times and we would have a different setup for every level. Make each level's land different, and everyone should be happy. I personally like 7 land, 5 continent, all wet, all warm, max goods, and all uniform. We could have one similar to that and we could also have one opposite that for another round, and so on. I would like to have all of them the same size map and other stuff, but terrain should see the whole spectrum. I think also that we should not exclude any units, improvements, or buildings. (unless of course you want to have an entire round with settlers excluded, or a round with all wonders excluded for those who do not like them)
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Lung
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of my princess Anastasia!
Mar 1999
time: 15:18
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This tournament looks like taking years to finish - long beyond most players' stamina.
Of course, there already is a tournament in it's advanced stages that is shaping us as the "Best of the best" - the Lungmatch tournament. It is purely a deathmatch tournament, but it does give a fair indication of who's the best. Consider the list of players vying for the title of Lungmatch champion;
Mobius
Swissy
Keygen
TheBirdMan
Max Webster
Rick
Faded Glory
and more!
Okay, so FG is there purely as cannon fodder, but most of the best in the business are there. If others believe they can dispute any eventual winner, then perhaps i should extend the tournament? If you can get 12 more players, or even 6, then a second group can be created to compete with the existing 12. It may be easier than the enourmous task confronting you, Gavrushka.
Of course, i am biased as i doubt if i can get online multiplayer working on my PC, and even if i could, i doubt if i could afford the time.
What do y'all think???
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20-04-2002 23:00
Give her 35 cents and directions to the nearest pay phone. 
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