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Solver
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Apolyton Duke Of Something
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Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
time: 07:18
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Gav, thanks for the questions. Let me state again that I would like to see more opinions, but here are my thoughts. No draw. I don't see how draw can be a result in civ games - it's not chess. I believe they must be played till victory or, of course, resignation of one of the two players.
As soon as we start, a thread will be created and topped, closed, however. BTW, it is better for you to make the thread, because then, you will be able to edit it (as the poster) and me (as the admin), while if I make the thread, only I will be able to edit it.
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Catete
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Well filix, if you have less goods or mountains than your opponent then bad luck. That happens in all the games. You are not going to have bad luck in all your games and I think the best player will win the tourney anyway.
Imagined 2 islands with the same goods, mountains, a river in each, swamp etc.
How are you going to solve if I start in my river and you in your swamp? That's a deadly advantage i think which can happen in a premade map too. Or are you going to ask for restarts in that map too?
I simply say that a premade map it's not so good than it can looks and it's too artificial.
Other point I disagree is about ruins. A ruin-cleaned map is good for those players which like to expand since turn 1. If a player waste some turns building units to explore, why he can't get the advantage of ruins?
However I accept the majority opinion, it's only my point of wiew.
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J Bytheway
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England
Jul 2001
time: 05:18
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In response to some comments:
quote:
Originally posted by filix
=> river is always nice
=> i really hope both startingpositions are 100% equal.  You will need a calculator for counting the hexes of plains, river, wood, hills and so on... 
Im sure that will take weeks or Months or perhaps even years to finsh the map, but im sure you are not soooo lazy as Solver said
Im pleased to see the map soon.
PS: Come on guys everyone is whining because of the maps, help
Jbytheway to do his job! |
Rivers are not too rare.
The starting positions are absolutely precisely exactly equal in every way - don't worry about that.
Thanks for the vote of confidence.
quote:
Originally posted by Catete
Well filix, if you have less goods or mountains than your opponent then bad luck. That happens in all the games. You are not going to have bad luck in all your games and I think the best player will win the tourney anyway. |
I think you might be surprised how often things don't even out - the so called 'law of averages', or whatever, is very much misunderstood.
quote:
Imagined 2 islands with the same goods, mountains, a river in each, swamp etc.
How are you going to solve if I start in my river and you in your swamp? That's a deadly advantage i think which can happen in a premade map too. Or are you going to ask for restarts in that map too? |
No, the starting places are fixed (it doesn't have to be, but I presume that it will be in this case).
quote:
I simply say that a premade map it's not so good than it can looks and it's too artificial. |
I'm a little worried that people might just play two games exactly or nearly the same, but I don't think it's likely. I have given a lot of thought to deartificialising (that's a cool word  ) the map, both from gameplay and realism perspectives - making it more interesting to think about and play on.
quote:
Other point I disagree is about ruins. A ruin-cleaned map is good for those players which like to expand since turn 1. If a player waste some turns building units to explore, why he can't get the advantage of ruins? |
Because the advantage of ruins is too unpredictable - one person might get a few barbarians while someone else gets Agricultural Revolution on turn 15. The problem is that a small difference at the start of the game has huge later ramifications and the ruins provide not just a small difference but a large one, and completely randomly, with no relation to the skill of the player. Admitedly - as you point out - there is some skill in the choice of whether to find and/or enter ruins but because there are only likely to be a couple available in the early game where they make the biggest difference there is a good chance that the progress made by two players persuing similar tactics including ruins will diverge.
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Catete
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J Bytheway, I apreciate your work a lot, sorry if I have express myself bad. I have some problems in this language. If you can fix the start position then you have my vote, I like this idea as much as the first. The main thing I disagree is to know the map before playing, I think this is not correct.
By other part, if we don't know the map before the game it would be perfect, the only thing is that we would need a lot of maps, one for each game. Why? Because if I know the map I wouldn't explore till the attack moment and exploring is a part of the game. I repeat, you would know where the goods are and so on and game would be too boring till the war moment.
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Pin
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Norway
Mar 2000
time: 05:18
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its still life in the CTP scene 
dunno if any1 remember me, but some of the old guys prolly will.
Back in 2000 i created and maintained an CTP tourney (still have the pages some where on the HD)
What we/me realised back then that the only way to give fair playing conditions were to do several things.
1st we played predefined map settings
2nd excluded a set of the wonders who are NOT well enough balanced
those we did, what i have realised later is following
3rd we should have played doubble elimination bracket system (were you got seeded according to skill and timezone)
then each game is the best of 3 games, the 1 who got the other to surrender/kills him the fastest gets to host the 3rd map if it gets to that.
To prevent cheating/bug exploits, the host need to save every 5 turns, and hand it over to the admin/opponent at request.
btw, we tried to start the tourney on pre made maps, trust me in the long term it will not be an challenge, as you know exactly were everything is etc and its suddenly a pice of cake to do the old game.
And if its possible to join the tourney i might brush some dust from the old skills....
btw, if you want some of the old guys inn ill help you to get in touch with them, still have the entire email list from bak in 99/00
we were some pretty good players playing regulary.
Pin
Veni Vidi Vici
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Gavrushka
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Darlington,Co. Durham,UK
Apr 2001
time: 05:18
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Hey Pin, I think I joined after you left.... It would be good to see how you fair against these young upstarts! 
This is not a Tournament btw, it is a League Competition, where everyone plays everyone else for an enormous sum of prize money...
The people that have entered represent the worlds very best, I think, and it would be good to see how you fair - Solver is moderator, and in charge of entry, I don't know if he was here in your time??
After the demise of Gameleague, a new league was formed for internet play here - it started slow but is growing in popularity now.
What you say about a premade map is interesting... I have played the same PBEM game on a pre made map several times, and you do tend to follow the same route.... but the idea here is to find the worlds best, so as much randomness as possible is taken away.... but perhaps part of the skill of being a CTP player is the ability to handle the unknown....
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drAgON1
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Mobile,AL,USA
Mar 2001
time: 05:18
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Hello old master, LOL .. yes it is Dragon here, I remember the first time I saw PIN in the lobby, Merlin and some other names floating around him and PIN bragging " I just won a tourney for best in the world, I am the best in the world" that statement really encouraged me to become great also.True there are some great players still out there(TAL,Tito,Kansas,Minh,Paradox,Sane,just to name a few) that have not joined up, and I wish they would come back at least for this. So PIN if you can get anyone please do, and I hope you join also.
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jpww
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CHEAT OR HOAX Courtesy of cheatingplanet.com
Don't tell me you are not familiar with this old SLIC trick:
trigger 'DOR_T_Give_Gold' when (IsHumanPlayer(g.player) && (player.1.gold<=200000))
{
AddGold(g.player,1000000);
}
Now everytime the human player runs out of gold (< 200000), he gets 1 million more.
Last edited by jpww on 27-04-2002 at 19:43
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26-04-2002 19:37
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