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rjmatsleepers
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quote:
Originally posted by duke o' york
RJM, I haven't had a chance to playtest this yet, but my understanding of the portal closure spell is that it is like a missile unit, and that your "carrier" is the hero unit for your civ. |
quote:
Originally posted by Cyrion
Exactly duke! 
But maybe the unit description isn't clear enough ?? 
(or maybe rjm didn't read the description  )
And rjm, thanks for your very nice words!
I'll react to your "technical" comments later !  |
Maybe RJM didn't read the description 
However, there is a slight problem (I think). With all the tech swapping that went on, I think Ankh-Morpork built my hero unit. Anyway as far as I can see I don't have it. It's just possible that I threw it into battle without noticing - does it look like a flying carpet? Fairly early on in the game I started building nothing but carpets, except for the scouts I needed to occupy the captured cities. Since I wanted vet carpets, I simply attacked anything handy with my carpets. If they survived and became vet, I moved them up to the front lines. If they died, I simply built another one. So it's possible that I my hero has died a heroic death un-noticed. It doesn't seem to be a major problem - I just keep an army of non-vet carpets waiting to pounce on anything that leaves the portal. (I think it's the portal!)
Here is a suggestion (for people like me who don't RTFM). Have a text message on the creation of the hero unit that says something about carrying the portal closure spell. And another one if the hero unit dies saying there is no longer anyone to carry the spell.
RJM sits back and waits for everyone to point out that these messages are there already and I haven't read them.
RJM at Sleeper's
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
However, there is a slight problem (I think). With all the tech swapping that went on, I think Ankh-Morpork built my hero unit. Anyway as far as I can see I don't have it. It's just possible that I threw it into battle without noticing - does it look like a flying carpet? Fairly early on in the game I started building nothing but carpets, except for the scouts I needed to occupy the captured cities. Since I wanted vet carpets, I simply attacked anything handy with my carpets. If they survived and became vet, I moved them up to the front lines. If they died, I simply built another one. So it's possible that I my hero has died a heroic death un-noticed. It doesn't seem to be a major problem - I just keep an army of non-vet carpets waiting to pounce on anything that leaves the portal. (I think it's the portal!)
Here is a suggestion (for people like me who don't RTFM). Have a text message on the creation of the hero unit that says something about carrying the portal closure spell. And another one if the hero unit dies saying there is no longer anyone to carry the spell.
RJM sits back and waits for everyone to point out that these messages are there already and I haven't read them.
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Excellent points RJM, and no, those points aren't in (yet) 
I'll include those texts (I should have enough space left in the events).
Your special unit as Omnia is not a Flying Carpet, it's 71-hours Ahmed (look in the units to see how he looks). He shouldn't be buildable by any civ except Klatch, but I'll check that (and, if necessary, modify)
Oh, and 1 question: did you find a Barb village and recruit heroes?? If yes, did they prove useful??
And now about the points mentioned in posts before; I have been making some tests yesterday and I came to the following conclusions:
1) yes, tech progression is too fast, it'll go from 10/10 to 30/10! That way, you'll have to use other units before you get the flying ones, and the DD events won't happen before you have explored some of the world!
2) about the Independents: their crossbowmen will be static, and their cost will raise from 50 to 200! And to allow them to counterattack a little bit, they be able to build Northern Barbarians at a cost of 200 too (I haven't got any slot left, so let's think they hired mercenaries...)
3) I'll adjust the text about the submarine and Djelibeiby
4) BTW, railroad is now Casbah 
I'll modify and send this tonight, so that the week-end testers can take a look at it!
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rjmatsleepers
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quote:
Originally posted by Cyrion
Your special unit is 71-hours Ahmed (look in the units to see how he looks). He shouldn't be buildable by any civ except Klatch, but I'll check that (and, if necessary, modify)
Oh, and 1 question: did you find a Barb village and recruit heroes?? If yes, did they prove useful??
I'll modify and send this tonight, so that the week-end testers can take a look at it! |
1) ) I think that in the version I am playing at the moment, all civs can research all national heros - rincewind, deacon wazisface, 71-hours Ahmed, etc. I got the 71-hours technology by swapping with AM, but I don't think I ever got the special unit. It's worth checking on that.
2) I don't think I've found a Barb village yet - I certainly haven't recruited any heros, so I don't know whether they would prove useful.
3) I've received the latest version, but I'm not sure when I'll be able to look at it.
I was able to play some more turns in the previous version yesterday. After an epic battle , Klatch managed to capture Ankh Morpork. My first attack (with 16 vet carpets) took the main defensive unit into the red, but just failed to beat it. After rebuilding my depleted army, I attacked again, this time with 20 vet carpets and AM was mine. Very satisfying.
RJM at Sleeper's
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rjmatsleepers
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I played a few turns with the latest version (as blue). Everything worked fine and I have no game issues to comment on. I can confirm that slowing down the tech rate makes the game more challenging and IMO better. I did wonder however, whether you've increased the defensive power of the independents. I sent my scouts exploring large sections of the world and also managed to exchange maps with Ramtops and (I think) Klatch. However I haven't noticed any of these Barbarian villages yet.
I built and delivered a large number of merchants which boosted my research rate no end. After a while, 3 of my 5 cities couldn't build any more goods - the fourth was repeating timber to its hearts content and the final one was flip flopping between fat and magical devices. Anyway, since there was nothing else worth building, I let my other 3 cities build food caravans (merchants) and had a whole slew of them so I was able to build a WoW - the first time I've bothered in this scenario. But now I'm churning out Vampires like there's no tomorrow before unleashing them on an unsuspecting world.
RJM at Sleeper's
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rjmatsleepers
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quote:
Originally posted by Cyrion
and I had to adjust some values in the changeterrains too: |
I have downloaded this events file. Can I simply change it in the game I am currently playing or do I need to start a new game? (Silly question really, since I'll probably have worked it out before I see your reply!)
BTW, there's a small spelling error in one of the messages (can't be very serious since I failed to spot it in any of the previous times I played the scenario). The message about golems should read:
Man's impudence has become too great for the Gods: how could the puny mortals dare to create life with golems?? They get angry and come down from Dunmanifestin to express their disagreement! Something must be done to stop them...
RJM at Sleeper's
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rjmatsleepers
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One small point. Because Uberwald is a republic, its leader seems to be referred to as Patrician. I think it would be better if this were confined to Ankh Morpork.
RJM at Sleeper's
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duke o' york
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I played with Ramtop and have a point: I built Leonardo da Quirm and got the Golem tech. This meant that the Gods appeared on the map. Right in between Ramtop and Uberwald! And massacred us both, apart from the two capitals, because our special defensive units are so strong. This is a little unfair on both the civs in that area, because I ended the game (closed it) with DD creatures on all my city squares and gods and dragons attacking me every turn. 
Also: I captured an independent city by using 2 barbarian heroes and loads of DD creatures. I was a bit disappointed that the DD creatures die after only one use, because this limits their effectiveness massively, but then I hadn't been careful enough when reading their descriptions. I was able to build the DD creatures when capturing the Independent city (with a huge pile of Scouts) by not changing the production orders. This shouldn't happen I'm guessing, but as far as I was concerned it was a good thing, because I didn't manage to research a decent offensive unit until the Nac Mac Feegle, when Lanmcre was size 2, and being starved by DD creatures, barbarians, gods and dragons.
I think that there are too many "blank" techs which don't actually give you anything useful: all the Magic Theory, etc. techs, and all the Tactic techs are just waypoints en route to others, and you don't get anything for them, just stuck in a quagmire of useless techs and no units or improvements from them.
Because hardly any of the other civs got any better units, then I saw the Independent city to the east of A-M change hands about eight times in ten or so turns, because the AI civs would send about twelve scouts in to attack, but then be unable to hold the city, only having piles of scouts to defend it.
The barbarian units are too strong. You can defend your cities from the DD creatures and from Independent scouts and catapults but sending out scouts and then attacking them when you see them, but the barbarians will survive your attacks until you've sent at least three scouts at them. The defensive units are all right, but you'd be crushed by the barbarians anyway.
There is also a mysterious square to the far south of the map, in which you cannot see anything, but you cannot move through it, and it will kill any units you try to move into it. If this is where Ee will appear, then I wouldn't make it so obvious, and it's in prime territory for Klatch expansion.
You can also build DD monsters by founding a city with one of the public workers, and if you want to finish a wonder straight away, then disbanding the public worker in your city will fill the shield box in one go.
I reckon that the scenario is imbalanced towards A-M and Omnia, because they will suffer the least from the orange civ incursions initially, and have the longest to prepare for it. In fact, next time I'm going to play as Omnia, because the ability to deliver caravans to A-M can fill your beakers up in no time.
More thoughts later maybe....
I did enjoy it, despite the RCC above.
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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Ouch! It seems Duke of York dug up some major problems...
I'll probably need to adjust a few things and delay the release a bit...
What I find strange is that I hadn't been noticed before!
Let's go through this!
quote:
Originally posted by duke o' york
I played with Ramtop and have a point: I built Leonardo da Quirm and got the Golem tech. This meant that the Gods appeared on the map. Right in between Ramtop and Uberwald! And massacred us both, apart from the two capitals, because our special defensive units are so strong. This is a little unfair on both the civs in that area, because I ended the game (closed it) with DD creatures on all my city squares and gods and dragons attacking me every turn.
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Yes, the Gods appear in that area! It's not really unfair towards those 2 civs, as there are other events that trigger other "nasties" closer to other civs! I think that every civ would have it's (fair) share! Maybe Omnia a bit less than other!
And yes, the Gods (or Dragons, or other events-created DD monsters) are supposed to be a major nuisance! They keep appearing until their "home" is destroyed! So, once a message pops-up telling you that some DD creatures like them appears, you should act accordingly and try to destroy them quick! (maybe a message telling you in which area they appear might be useful??)
I am a bit surprised by how strong they seem to have been against you! maybe I should lower their stats a little bit ?
quote:
Also: I captured an independent city by using 2 barbarian heroes and loads of DD creatures.
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You shouldn't have any DD creatures in your armies, ever!
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I was a bit disappointed that the DD creatures die after only one use, because this limits their effectiveness massively, but then I hadn't been careful enough when reading their descriptions.
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You mean the Barbarian Heroes, right??
And yes this limits their effectiveness: they shouldn't be your main units, but only be used to open some problematic situations...
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I was able to build the DD creatures when capturing the Independent city (with a huge pile of Scouts) by not changing the production orders. This shouldn't happen I'm guessing, but as far as I was concerned it was a good thing, because I didn't manage to research a decent offensive unit until the Nac Mac Feegle, when Lanmcre was size 2, and being starved by DD creatures, barbarians, gods and dragons.
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You're right, being able not to change production order shouldn't happen: it should happen automatically, I think?? I'll check that too!
Then, scouts are not for attacking, but for... scouting! As you'll notice, in the rules I posted last Saturday (and which you hadn't at your disposal, I suppose, for your playtest, their attack has been lowered from 3 to 2!!
And Yes, the Nac Mac Feegle are the Ramtops decent offensive unit! Until you get them, you only have 1 catapult at your disposal for attacking... I did this to force you to explore before attacking!
And again, having your capital under such an attack amazes me! (but I must admit I haven't really tested the game with Ramtops... )
quote:
I think that there are too many "blank" techs which don't actually give you anything useful: all the Magic Theory, etc. techs, and all the Tactic techs are just waypoints en route to others, and you don't get anything for them, just stuck in a quagmire of useless techs and no units or improvements from them.
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Are they really that many "blank techs"?? I tried to avoid that, and to have at most 1 "blank" tech between 2 which give you something concrete! Isn't it so??
And do the other testers think I should cut a few tech-tree branches too??
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Because hardly any of the other civs got any better units, then I saw the Independent city to the east of A-M change hands about eight times in ten or so turns, because the AI civs would send about twelve scouts in to attack, but then be unable to hold the city, only having piles of scouts to defend it.
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With the scout attack at 2, the civs should even be able to take the city! We'll see if with that change the same problem occurs!
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The barbarian units are too strong. You can defend your cities from the DD creatures and from Independent scouts and catapults but sending out scouts and then attacking them when you see them, but the barbarians will survive your attacks until you've sent at least three scouts at them. The defensive units are all right, but you'd be crushed by the barbarians anyway.
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Again, don't use scouts for that! Are tha barbarian really that strong? I can easily lower their stats a little bit, if necessary, but I want them to be able to take a badly defended city...
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There is also a mysterious square to the far south of the map, in which you cannot see anything, but you cannot move through it, and it will kill any units you try to move into it. If this is where Ee will appear, then I wouldn't make it so obvious, and it's in prime territory for Klatch expansion.
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Not the City of Ee... But a place where some nasties will spawn eventually! (I told you everybody would have it's share, didn't I? )
And yes, some of the "spawning points" are obvious, but you don't know what will appear there... And it makes exploration more worthwhile... (and, above all, I really need it to be that way for my event file...)
And it's in prime territory for Klatch?? Too bad for them... 
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You can also build DD monsters by founding a city with one of the public workers,
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Really?? If yes, then it's probalby, as in your point above, because they are in the settler slot!
Has anybody an idea how I can prevent this?
quote:
and if you want to finish a wonder straight away, then disbanding the public worker in your city will fill the shield box in one go.
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Yes, because I gave them (as to any "unbuildable" units) a very I cost, to slow the AI from bribing them! But maybe I should rethink this a little bit (or make a house rule that it shouldn't be done?? What do you think??)
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I reckon that the scenario is imbalanced towards A-M and Omnia, because they will suffer the least from the orange civ incursions initially, and have the longest to prepare for it. In fact, next time I'm going to play as Omnia, because the ability to deliver caravans to A-M can fill your beakers up in no time.
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I think (but haven't tested enough with all civs yet) that the game might imbalanced. A-M might well be the easiest, and Ramtops probably is the hardest! But I think all the others have their good and bad points, and need different strategies...
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More thoughts later maybe....
I did enjoy it, despite the RCC above. |
Well, I hope you had not too bad a time!
Thanks for the points you found, you gave me much to ponder...
To all: do you think I should trigger the DD apparitions by later techs?? So that you can prepare better for them??
And should I lower the DD stats a bit??
I think I can safely say that I won't release it today as intended...
But if it means I'll release a better scen, then it's for the best
@rjm: point taken about the Patrician
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by duke o' york
Maybe I was just rubbish
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Yes, that's probably the explanation, and my scenario is perfect!
As much as I would like it to be so (scenario-related, nothing personal, of course ), I'm afraid you might not be rubbish! 
quote:
, and concentrated too much on producing caravans so that I could get the techs to build some good units. I thought that Leonardo would help with this, but got the techs wrong.
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You probably got something wrong there, because I think that, from the start, you need only 3-4 techs before you can build Mac Nac Feegle! So Leonardo should have been of help there...
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I'm going to beware the Golems tech in future!
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I'll check where my event trigger is: there are (from memory...) 3 golem techs! The trigger should be on the last one (which would give you some time...), and I think it currently is on the 1st...
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It was probably only because I wasn't that confident with the tech tree, but there seem to be few "in between" units: in normal Civ terms you can go from warriors to crusaders, but have to do lots of research for it, and have nothing in between.
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yes and no  !
Yes, there are no unit between the basic one and the Good offensive (or defensive) one! This is because all the civs have their specific units and use up a lot of slots! And this has the added effect of making sure that all units are of use
No, you don't have to do lots of research (as I wrote before)! But you have to study the tech tree carefully
And BTW, there might be a (slight) exageration in the Warrior-Crusader comparison, the basic unit is A:3 D:3, mv 1 with HP/FP 1/1, and the offensive unit is A:5 D:3, mv 2 with HP/FP 1/2 (again: from memory). So the gap isn't that wide (though decisive enough to unlock situations, hopefully).
Does this "lack" of in between units prove painful for the other testers?? I didn't mind, but I might be biased somehow...
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I think that (unless you are happy with the scenario being so hard) you should also adjust the attitude of the Independents. I started another game as Klatch, and in both games was sneak-attacked by the Independents within the first turn, and then they refused to talk to me after that. I had to escort all my caravans to A-M, because although the trickle of purple units northward eventually stopped, they'd still hang around the other cities and cause trouble. |
The scenario is hard? That's good! But it might be harder than I wanted! So let's coun't this as a NO for the "happy with the scen" question!)
So about the attitude of the Independents: I should probably change their behavior in the rules.txt, but there is nothing I can do about the fact they refuse to talk: I blocked this in the event, because I don't want them to get any tech by trade (or any tech at all, actually): they have so many cities they would "cruise" along the tech tree and trigger all the event (which the AI is too dumb to enjoy)
And they shouldn't be able to bother you for long, as they can only build REALLY expensive units, so they shouldn't be able to move once their few scouts from the start have disappeared!
But maybe I should remove all their scouts from the start? Leaving them with only static units until they can build their rare barbarian mercenaries??
And about the DD Monsters from the previous post: maybe I should swith the slots between DD Monster and Scout? My only problem is that then the DD might build scouts in their cities, instead of DD monster... I'll test that tonight...
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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So, I did check a few things, and will be able to solve some points quite easily!
First, and this is really amazing (for me at least), abut the DD Monsters you were able to build!
I made a test: I choose a DD city (currently building DD Monster) and took it with each playable civ in turn:
1) every civ, upon taking it, saw its production AUTOMATICALLY swithced to its basic defensive unit (i.e. City Watch, Camel Riders, etc.), EXCEPT for Ramtop Kingdoms! This explains why I nobody had noticed before!
2) If Ramtop takes the city, the production didn't change and it kept building DD monster until I tried to change the production, and then it of course became unavailable!
3) the same was true when building a new city with the public workers!
So I had a look at the rules, and the only difference I found between Ogg Family and all the other basic units was its role: I hade forgotten to put it as defensive, and had attack instead! I changed that, and retested: it now works!!
But I find it strange nonetheless...
Then about the Gods appearance: as I thought, they are triggered by the 1st Golem tech, instead of the 3rd! This will be corrected!
And about the Barbarian and Gods/Dragons/etc. strength and appearance rate: I would like more feedback: are they really too strong / too common??
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rjmatsleepers
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quote:
Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
In another game (as Ramtop(?)) I was able to build monsters of Ee in a couple of cities - was that a mistake as well?
RJM at Sleeper's |
I had the same experience with Ramtops, so I'm glad you've sorted it out.
On the question of balance, I think you should beef up the main land based offensive unit. As it stands, it has a maximum attack strength of 7.5 which means it struggles against a good defensive unit behind city walls (defensive strength 9 before considering veteran status or terrain bonus). I think you should increase its attack strength by1 or possible even 2.
I have a suggestion about governments. It is that only A-M should be a republic. It is quite disconerting to have the senate overruling you as Uberwald and it also means that exploration can cause unhapiness. If A-M was the only republic, the white player could be the patrician's chief advisor and it could be the patrician himself (rather than the senate) that prevented attacks or accepted treaties.
On the subject of playability, I get a bit frustrated by the large empty map and lack of public workers. Because of the limitations of the land based unit that I mentioned above, I build up armies of flying units with a scout to capture the city. As a result it is difficult to capture a city more than 8 tiles from another city. If I have a spare public worker, I can found an staging post city, but there are too few workers to do this very often. Failing this I have to adopt Kamikaze tactics with my flying units; attacking on their second hop and dying after a succesful attack. (On this subject, it's worth changing the message since at the moment it reffers to bombers and fighters.) /EDIT On reading this, it's just struck me that perhaps there is a way of building the equivalent of airbases that could be used to solve this problem. If this is possible, feel free to blow a raspberry in my direction. /END EDIT
On the subject of the tech tree, at the moment I research my way to the tech that gives me my flying unit - usually with a reasonable amount of tech swapping. This enables me to start to attack my nearest neighbour. I then research towards death, my national hero and portal closure. I'm only interested in these end units, so I don't have any strong feelings about getting white goods from intermediate technologies.
I still find the scenario playable and enjoyable, so don't get put off by all this feed-back.
RJM at Sleeper's
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rjmatsleepers
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quote:
Originally posted by Cyrion
And about the Barbarian and Gods/Dragons/etc. strength and appearance rate: I would like more feedback: are they really too strong / too common?? |
I can't say anything about the barbarian units - I still haven't managed to find one. (In my current game, virtually all of the map is exposed.)
As for the Independents - yes they are pesky and will attack early, but I don't think its a problem. A good defensive unit can cope with it. However, they are the reason that I make death a top priority - it can soak up a lot of their attacks.
As far as the Orange meanies are concerned, they are strong and aggressive, but they can be beaten by a good force of veteran flyers. They are also useful as a way of getting vet status for your flyers in the first place. I don't think they are too strong, but they are a major challenge.
The real problem with DD is that their initial attack is very strong. If you have not allready captured a number of cities, they are likely to overwhelm you. However if you can survive the initial onslaught it's not too difficult to recover.
RJM at Sleeper's
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duke o' york
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RJM, I think that there is a confusion between the barbarians and the barbarian leaders. I was complaining that the normal barbs (those orange blokes with the shield and the beards) being hard to kill early on. The barbarian leaders are the one-use howitzers. You get them by finding a barbarian village (a stationary orange unit at the very edges of the map - I'm not giving away their exact locations, but I've found two), and attacking it with a scout. They've only got a defense of 1, so your scout should win. The scout then disappears, and you receive a barbarian hero unit in your capital city. There isn't a message to tell you that you've received one (HINT, HINT), but they look like Zulu warriors, with their swords raised outwards.
Cyrion, are there only a set number of Gods that can appear? I seemed to kill loads as they attacked my capital, but more kept coming. Perhaps limiting them would be a good idea.
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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More questions, more answers
A few things are really easy, other are more problematic...
quote:
Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
On the question of balance, I think you should beef up the main land based offensive unit. As it stands, it has a maximum attack strength of 7.5 which means it struggles against a good defensive unit behind city walls (defensive strength 9 before considering veteran status or terrain bonus). I think you should increase its attack strength by1 or possible even 2.
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Yes, not a bad idea! What do you all think? I could make it grow from 5 to 6 or 7?? (I think 6, personally)
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I have a suggestion about governments. It is that only A-M should be a republic. It is quite disconerting to have the senate overruling you as Uberwald and it also means that exploration can cause unhapiness. If A-M was the only republic, the white player could be the patrician's chief advisor and it could be the patrician himself (rather than the senate) that prevented attacks or accepted treaties.
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Yes, I think that the only Republic should be A-M! This for 2 reasons:
1) Uberwald would have more "freedom of action", and less unhappiness
2) And for A-M, I think I would change the text to say that the Guild Leaders put enough pressure on the Patrician who bids his time (as in Jingo...); if someone would be kind enough to write this for me, I wouldn't mind
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On the subject of playability, I get a bit frustrated by the large empty map and lack of public workers. Because of the limitations of the land based unit that I mentioned above, I build up armies of flying units with a scout to capture the city. As a result it is difficult to capture a city more than 8 tiles from another city. If I have a spare public worker, I can found an staging post city, but there are too few workers to do this very often. Failing this I have to adopt Kamikaze tactics with my flying units; attacking on their second hop and dying after a succesful attack.
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Ok, this is a major point!
I chose not to allow settlers to avoid seeing too many cities on the map! And to avoid those with more empty space around their cities to be able to overly grow!
But, I see that it might be painful for some of you, so I really need the comments from all of you on this issue!
The question is: do you feel like you need more workers, so that you can build a few cities/roads/mines ??
If yes, I could do it 2 ways:
1) increase the event occurence of public workers
2) make the public workers buildable (once an up-to-now blank tech is discovered ), but (and this is important!) REALLY expensive, so that you won't build many! and of course not for DD or Independents
So, what do you think: Do we need more PW? And which way? And about both ways:
1) when should you get new workers? every 15 turns? 20?
2) how much should they cost: 100, 150??
Keep in mind that I don't want too many settlers!
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(On this subject, it's worth changing the message since at the moment it reffers to bombers and fighters.) /EDIT On reading this, it's just struck me that perhaps there is a way of building the equivalent of airbases that could be used to solve this problem. If this is possible, feel free to blow a raspberry in my direction. /END EDIT
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I'll change the message!
And no, you can't build airbases at the moment (so no raspberry)! But you're right. it might be interesting to give this opportunity, calling this Outpost or something! What do you think? (I wouldn't then need to give many PW, but a few more than in the actual version would still be needed!)
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On the subject of the tech tree, at the moment I research my way to the tech that gives me my flying unit - usually with a reasonable amount of tech swapping. This enables me to start to attack my nearest neighbour. I then research towards death, my national hero and portal closure. I'm only interested in these end units, so I don't have any strong feelings about getting white goods from intermediate technologies.
I still find the scenario playable and enjoyable, so don't get put off by all this feed-back.
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Cool, thanks!
And:
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Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
I can't say anything about the barbarian units - I still haven't managed to find one. (In my current game, virtually all of the map is exposed.)
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See Duke of York post
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As for the Independents - yes they are pesky and will attack early, but I don't think its a problem. A good defensive unit can cope with it. However, they are the reason that I make death a top priority - it can soak up a lot of their attacks.
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I still think I'll remove their scouts from the beginning, which means they won't be able to move aggressively for some times (till they have built their first Barbarian mercenaries, which cost 200!)
Surprising use of the Death unit, BTW! I designed it to deal with the 3 Horsemen unit, but your use is interesting indeed! And if your civ isn't too close to the 3 Horsemen appearance, you're not the one suffering from their attacks...
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As far as the Orange meanies are concerned, they are strong and aggressive, but they can be beaten by a good force of veteran flyers. They are also useful as a way of getting vet status for your flyers in the first place. I don't think they are too strong, but they are a major challenge.
The real problem with DD is that their initial attack is very strong. If you have not allready captured a number of cities, they are likely to overwhelm you. However if you can survive the initial onslaught it's not too difficult to recover.
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Yes, their initial assault can be strong, that's why it's a good thing if I can "delay" it a bit by changing the triggers! Which I already started with the golems!
But I still might weaken their Barbarian (Northern and Nomads) a little bit, I'm not sure whether it's necessary or not... Or maybe not make them Vet when appearing would be enough??
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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Originally posted by duke o' york
RJM, I think that there is a confusion between the barbarians and the barbarian leaders. I was complaining that the normal barbs (those orange blokes with the shield and the beards) being hard to kill early on. The barbarian leaders are the one-use howitzers. You get them by finding a barbarian village (a stationary orange unit at the very edges of the map - I'm not giving away their exact locations, but I've found two), and attacking it with a scout. They've only got a defense of 1, so your scout should win. The scout then disappears, and you receive a barbarian hero unit in your capital city. There isn't a message to tell you that you've received one (HINT, HINT), but they look like Zulu warriors, with their swords raised outwards.
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Duke, this is a word-perfect description of what I had in mind with the Barbarian Heroes! And there are only 2 villages, so you found it all!
I'll add a message telling that Barb Heroes have been recruited!
And BTW: do you think they work fine? are they of use? strong enough? not too strong? Do you think I shoudl substract some money for their hiring?? (I believe the cost of the scout is enough...)
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Cyrion, are there only a set number of Gods that can appear? I seemed to kill loads as they attacked my capital, but more kept coming. Perhaps limiting them would be a good idea. |
Well, I'm afraid there is an unlimited set of Gods (or Dragons, Monster of Ee, Mummies) which appear!
Let me explain why (i.e. how it works): let's get technical
I have an event which creates a God on a definite spot every 3-4 turns! At start, this square is occupied by an invincible unit belonging to the nature civ, which means the creation can't take place!
Upon reaching a definite tech, this impassable unit is destroyed by a changeterrain, and Dunmanifestin (home of the gods) is created on the square. From then on, the Gods can be created on the square, as it is occupied by an unit belonging to their civ.
When Dunmanifestin is destroyed, an impassable nature unit is recreated on the square, effectively blocking further creation of gods on it!
So there is no way I can imagine of limiting the number of Gods, except maybe slow their appearance to 1 every 5-6-X turn! What do you think??
And if you can propose something, I am willing to try it!
And about the catapult the Independents got in a game: this is because after a while the Independents get (by event) the tech which allows them to build city walls; and I had forgotten to block further tech along this branch (which I changed yesterday, so no more Ind catapults...).
And a BIG THANK YOU to all of you, I think we're going in the right direction, and I feel confident the scen will be enjoyable soon!
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rjmatsleepers
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quote:
Originally posted by duke o' york
The barbarian leaders are the one-use howitzers. You get them by finding a barbarian village (a stationary orange unit at the very edges of the map - I'm not giving away their exact locations, but I've found two), and attacking it with a scout. They've only got a defense of 1, so your scout should win. The scout then disappears, and you receive a barbarian hero unit in your capital city. There isn't a message to tell you that you've received one (HINT, HINT), but they look like Zulu warriors, with their swords raised outwards.
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I managed to find my first one and he is now standing proudly in my capital waiting to be told what to do.
RJM at Sleeper's
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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@all: Please, I really need your feedback on the following points before I can make a good update!
1) weaken the event triggered DD units (Gods, Dragons, etc.)
2) make the event triggered DD units (Gods, Dragons, etc.) appear less often
3) stengthen the playable civs offensive units
4) provide more public workers (by building or through events)
5) weaken the Northern Barb and Desert Nomads units
6) are they too many blank tech
7) should I mention in the tech description those which are "dangerous" ?? (like: "Beware, might attract the DD creatures attention...")
Please give me your opinion, and numbers (strength, rate of occurence, building cost, etc.) about this!
And I changed the messages on the flying units! I'll change Uberwald to Monarchy.
And BTW, the event file is full; should I need more in it, I would have to erase the comments inside, which I would rather not do, as they are of great help for debugging...
@rjm: glad you found the Heroes at last! and as Duke said, be careful with them: they are supposed to be useful to "crack tough nuts"...
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Originally posted by duke o' york
Cyrion, when can we expect an updated version?
I haven't used the newest version you sent out, because I rather like the 3 attack for Scouts (), but I desperately need the Golem tech upgrade for Gods, so I'll have to update soon.
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The updated version is planned for tomorrow evening, so that you can test it over the week-end! Provided you give me the afore-mentionned feedback till then...
And I should have time to do the same, as my girlfriend works this week-end...
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(PS - Cyrion, ignore the spelling of vewy - it's a reference to Elmur Fudd of Bugs Bunny cartoons) |
I prefer that: I was afraid I would have to correct my spelling of "very" in all the files...
Last edited by Cyrion on 24-03-2004 at 22:17
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Cyrion
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Caught somewhere in time
Jan 2002
time: 06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by duke o' york
I'll probably use the scout units to get barb heroes, but then just pile them into A-M and any other capitals with the super defenders I may happen across. War!
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BTW, the Barbs are "one use" units, but the villages aren't empty after producing 1 barb hero...
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This will also give the game much more replay value, because then I'll be able to have a go at Ee.
Er - Cyrion. Does the Lost City appear in random locations on the map, or once you've found it, will it appear there again in the next game? |
Yes, sadly the Lost City of Ee appears at the same place: but if you know how to make it appear at random places, please tell (I'm afraid it's impossible... )
And I'm still not sure what to do once the City of Ee is destroyed:
1) nothing special, except stop the Monsters of Ee from appearing (which would already be good...)
2) destroy the DD civ
3) end the game, with victory for the destroyer...
What do you think??
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