10-05-2002 23:14									#61
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quote: The Med is an American lake. Got a clue how much firepower and real experience/savvy there is in the Sixth Fleet?

How would you get past Gibraltar? You can expect a big fleet and hundreds of aircraft (as well as coastal installations) waiting there for them on the other side.

	10-05-2002 23:18									#62
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They are already there, big guy...

And a collection of different small fleets doesn't equal a big one.

Too much Risk playing, dude. Not enough real world experience.

USA! USA!

	10-05-2002 23:24									#63
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quote: They are already there, big guy... And a collection of different small fleets doesn't equal a big one.

Yes, and there are tonnes of American aircraft in Germany. Do you honestly think they will just be allowed to sit there when relations cool down, let alone when war breaks out.

	10-05-2002 23:34									#64
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They would be toast. fly them off to Turkey and CONUS, before the war starts. This kind of thing doesn't happen in little game "turns". YOu plan it ahead of time. shift forces into theatre, etc. Have to figure that relations would have gotten rocky ejnough to meant that military cooperation within NATO would alreadyu be over.

We would also move forces from the Pac and IO to the LANT...

	10-05-2002 23:37									#65
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Actually you have a point...

If I assume some sort of previous falling out. Than our vessels would be gone from bases at Italay and Spain. We still might have a decent force in the Med though...we supply mostly by unrep anyway.

	10-05-2002 23:58									#66
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quote: Originally posted by GP Well...that's another issue... But even if the alliance held together at a political level, the different armies don't add up like little Risk pieces. A strong, unified force will beat a diverse molygolt of patched together forces.

Hmmm, don’t you think decentralisation has it advantages too? For instance, there isn’t one single central command to knock down in the EU to obtain a somewhat rapid victory. You’d have to go after 5 or 6, which in combination with para-military resistance groups might prolong a campaign to the point of breaking it.

I think an economic embargo assisted by Russia and Turkey may be a lot more effective in getting the EU on its knees than a outright assault.

	11-05-2002 00:04									#67
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quote: If I assume some sort of previous falling out.

That's what I mean. When relations are cooling, American's won't have access to EU bases anymore. And since Egypt isn't too keen on allowing American warships through the Suez canal, I don't know where the American ships can or will stay, and it's likely they'll simply leave the med altogether. (and won't be allowed back in since gibraltar will be closed off.

	11-05-2002 01:31									#68
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I'd tell the Russians that the British, French, and wily Turks are preparing for an invasion of Russia, and a preemptive strike will save the motherland.

Sit back, watch Europe collapse under the might of a Russia revived in ways i won't go into detail here, use superweapons to slaughter their millions while leaving America unscratched, and send a few mp's in to the ashes of Europe to liberate it.

	11-05-2002 01:36									#69
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losing our bases in the EMd doesn't prevent us from stationing a fleet there. We've been using unrep since WW2 for lots of our supplies. Most of the ships there are deployers...

(But you may have a point. I could see how the Med might be untenable.)

	11-05-2002 01:38									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Colon Hmmm, don’t you think decentralisation has it advantages too? For instance, there isn’t one single central command to knock down in the EU to obtain a somewhat rapid victory. You’d have to go after 5 or 6, which in combination with para-military resistance groups might prolong a campaign to the point of breaking it. I think an economic embargo assisted by Russia and Turkey may be a lot more effective in getting the EU on its knees than a outright assault.

Your point is regarding dispersal of forces. Having seperate copmmand structures does not make the entity more difficutl to deal with. It makes it easier. And I hope you can see rthat it would make iut much more difficult for any offensive EU campaign.

	11-05-2002 01:47									#71
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I'm not talking about offensive EU actions because I don't see how it could possibly succeed, even hypothetically speaking. But don’t you think that the while the lack of one single command centre, while increasing the chance of eventual victory, does prolong a campaign on European soil?

Take guerrilla warfare for instance, it's strength is exactly that it doesn't have one single command center.

	11-05-2002 02:04									#72
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Seriously colon, no I don't. The Union would have had an easier time dealing with seperate state military forces. And we would have had an easier time dealing with less unified guerillas in Viet Nam.

divide and conquer...

	11-05-2002 02:37									#73
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Where will the US get enough forces from to invade the EU? Considering Europe's sheer size, let alone it's population and number of armed forces, how does it think it will be able to conquer Europe? It was easy in WW2, because of European infighting and general loathing of the German oppressors, but this won't be the case this time.

	11-05-2002 02:55									#74
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quote: Originally posted by GP Seriously colon, no I don't. The Union would have had an easier time dealing with seperate state military forces. And we would have had an easier time dealing with less unified guerillas in Viet Nam. divide and conquer...

What does an "easier time" constitute? My point is that separate command centres would prolong the campaign US would have to carry out. If you disagree please tell me why.

	11-05-2002 02:56									#75
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In an EU/US war we'd sit back and watch the fireworks.

	11-05-2002 03:00									#76
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse In an EU/US war we'd sit back and watch the fireworks.

So Canada wouldn't ally themselves with either side? Good. That would make things easier for the US.

	11-05-2002 03:01									#77
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I can tell you for damn sure we wouldn't. That's just asking to get hurt, and we basically like each of you equally...

	11-05-2002 03:07									#78
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse I can tell you for damn sure we wouldn't. That's just asking to get hurt, and we basically like each of you equally...

What he means is that they despise US and would like to side with Europe and kick Americans' asses, but... well... it happens that USA is just next door, you see... and...

	11-05-2002 03:12									#79
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Why does everyone think Russia would site with the US? Germany has pretty good relations with Russia, I think Germ. is atm the best friend Russia has in the West Take some old cold war feelings into account. Voila Russia is on our site.

Hm Im not sure, but I think Russia had something like a loose ally with China. Since Russia fights for us, China comes in the boat

Than all the arabien world will of course also site with the EU (Anti-US anyways + relatives in Europe from immigration)

+ the rest of the Axis of Evil. Cuba, Korea.


Hm, ok now the potential US allys:
- Israel
- Hmmmm
- ?

	11-05-2002 03:14									#80
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if a war breaks against the US, the US has no ally.

	11-05-2002 03:14									#81
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quote: What he means is that they despise US and would like to side with Europe and kick Americans' asses, but... well... it happens that USA is just next door, you see... and...

They'll probably do what Italy did in WW2. After France was all but defeated, Italy declared war on France, and conquered some 10 miles of territory. Canada will do the same if it sees the US loosing, and will annex a few miles of land in Alaska or something.

	11-05-2002 03:16									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus They'll probably do what Italy did in WW2. After France was all but defeated, Italy declared war on France, and conquered some 10 miles of territory. Canada will do the same if it sees the US loosing, and will annex a few miles of land in Alaska or something.

I rather think they will attack in the east coast region, I heard somewhere they have a White House to burn as a symbol of a past garden-party in Washington

	11-05-2002 03:17									#83
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 if a war breaks against the US, the US has no ally.

No.
Actually, the US has two allies : Europe and Israël.
Now, if there is a war between US and Europe, it's sure that the list of their allies is quite a lot reduced

	11-05-2002 03:18									#84
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tu te fout de moi il me semple

c'estque je dis voyons!

	11-05-2002 03:21									#85
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 tu te fout de moi il me semple c'estque je dis voyons!

French-speaking Greek ?
That's a pleasant surprise
Did you spent some times in France or is it the result of classes ?

	11-05-2002 03:22									#86
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tout les deux

	11-05-2002 03:23									#87
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Hm, and since Russia + the Arabs site with the EU. We would have plenty of oil while the US would get maybe a bit in trouble

	11-05-2002 03:24									#88
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Completely unrealalistic- neither side would ever stand a chance of conquering the other.

	11-05-2002 03:25									#89
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no, EU, Russia, China and the Arab world as a minor jockey would very easily win against the US.

Also Latin America doesn;t love you.

	11-05-2002 03:25									#90
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 tout les deux

Ah well, a french-speaking Greek with good tastes

(bien qu'il y ait encore quelques progrès à faire sur l'orthographe, mais bon c'est l'intention qui compte )