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Saint Marcus
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Scio Me Nihil Scire
Jan 1970
time: 06:19
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You don't think the Israelis would keep the Suez open? |
Why would they attack Egypt in the first place, since it's not an EU member.
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Good for you. Wouldn't be enough. |
Would be more than you'll get. If an Israeli-American alliance starts attacking Egypt and Europe, the Arabs will stop sending you oil.
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Considering the 226 year old close relationship with the USA; likely. |
LOL. Morroco isn't even an independent country for that long!
And France has better relations with Morroco than the USA.
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Oh wait, that's right. It turns out the Europeans have no air capabilities at all! Nevermind. |
American F-15s and F-18s won't stand much of a chance against European Typhoons and Rafales. As it stands, the US don't even have any new generation fighters.
And European forces focus on homeland defense, which wasn't the case in Kosovo but will be the case if the US attacks.
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I also bet the Israelis would bomb llloooottttsssss of Oil facilities in the Persian Gulf Area. |
Israel can't take on the whole muslim world at once. And this also means the US will get no oil from the ME anymore. They'll still supply Europe, and we can get our oil form Russia and Kazakstan. Don't know where the US will get it's oil though, since Venezuela and domestic production don't cut it.
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and I think the only group of Submariners out there that could pull it off are the British. |
And French.
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Saint Marcus, Regardless of your point-by-point denial, the U.S. today has the power to do everything I said in my post. The EU doesn't have a chance. |
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Marcus: the US Air Force wouldn't have much trouble brushing aside European air defence...Britain with one of the more respectable militaries (France has the best, Germany one of the worst) has next to no air defences that could challenge the USAF. If the nature of the war demanded it and the USAF wanted to bomb the major European population centers to dust then they could. |
There is no way the US can establish control of the European skies. Please show me how it's done? Take into account that the US will have to keep some planes at home for homeland defend. Take into account that the EU has more fighter aircraft than the US. Take into account that the EU has next gen aircraft while the US has not. Take into account that the US will have far longer supply lines. Take into account that the US will have no point from where to station and launch 1000+ fighter aircraft (carriers won't cut it). Take into account the sheer size of Europe. I await your answer.
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Lonestar
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AECCP Dark Lord of the Sith
Aug 2000
time: 00:19
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Originally posted by Saint Marcus
Why would they attack Egypt in the first place, since it's not an EU member.
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Why climb Mt. Everest?
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Would be more than you'll get. If an Israeli-American alliance starts attacking Egypt and Europe, the Arabs will stop sending you oil.
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So? Europeans get their oil from the Middleast. The USA gets pretty much all the oil from domestic and western hemisphere sources.
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LOL. Morroco isn't even an independent country for that long!
And France has better relations with Morroco than the USA.
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Au contraire. It was a independant country for quite a long time, with a brief interruption of French Imperialism.
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burp.
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American F-15s and F-18s won't stand much of a chance against European Typhoons and Rafales. As it stands, the US don't even have any new generation fighters.
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The Rafale is just a improved version of the Mirage, and the Typhoon isn't even in service. This is in addition, of course, to the fact that Europe has piss-poor AAMs.
As for Next Generation fighters....The F/A-18E Super Hornet comes to mind. The F-22 will be entering service right about the same time as the Typhoon. And the F-22 is way the hell superior to the Typhoon.
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And European forces focus on homeland defense, which wasn't the case in Kosovo but will be the case if the US attacks.
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Well, can't argue with that.
'Course, American forces are geared towards power projection... 
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Israel can't take on the whole muslim world at once. And this also means the US will get no oil from the ME anymore. They'll still supply Europe, and we can get our oil form Russia and Kazakstan. Don't know where the US will get it's oil though, since Venezuela and domestic production don't cut it.
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You'd be amazed at how hard a people can fight if they are (1) better trained, (2) better equiped, and (3) know they are facing certain death if the other guy wins.
Domestic Production...Venezuela...Mexico...and Nigeria.(actually in Africa, my bad).
Besides, in a General war, there would be rationing anyway.
BWAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!! We need to get GP in here! French subs are very, very loud! We'd detect and kill 'em before they got within range!
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I'd roll 'em too, except those muscles are tired.
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There is no way the US can establish control of the European skies. Please show me how it's done? Take into account that the US will have to keep some planes at home for homeland defend. Take into account that the EU has more fighter aircraft than the US. Take into account that the EU has next gen aircraft while the US has not. Take into account that the US will have far longer supply lines. Take into account that the US will have no point from where to station and launch 1000+ fighter aircraft (carriers won't cut it). Take into account the sheer size of Europe. I await your answer. |
Surely. I actually think I said it would be hard-near impossible, but I'll take a crack.
(1)The EU has more fighter aircraft....and this means what? As the Kosovo campaign showed, the European Air Forces couldn't muster enough air power to take up even a quarter of the NATO force. There were a couple reasons for this;
-The Europeans didn't trust their pilots to go into a combat zone/insufficient training.
- Most European militaries don't take into account spare parts/replacements/what have you. A large number of jets were frounded for that reason.
So, have the European militaries been striving to improve their readiness? From what we've seen, no. (The French Carrier Charles de Gaulle didn't even make it out to the Arabian sea for several months, as the French didn't have the budget for spare parts for the thing)
Another thing, the Europeans, besides the "never-explode-exocet", have no cruise missiles. None. The British have a few subs equiped with Tomahawks, but that's it. American Subs can crawl up to 100, 200, km off shore and blast European airstrips. There wouldn't be enough warning to get the planes off the ground. Wouldn't even have to try to sneak into the North Sea (or punch there way through the Med). Just sit off the Iberian pennisula and blast the Spanish and Portugese air forces to hell. The other European Nations would be compelled to send their airforces there to help protect Spain and Portugal, or they would catch political hell. Either way, it would dramatically reduce the numbers of planes we'd have to take out.
(2) Next Generation aircraft. Not really all that next Generation. More like "Current American Generation". Even then, the USN has the F/A-18E Super Hornet (not to be confused with the smaller, way the hell older F/A-18 Hornet) in production.
In addition, the big deal is that the Europeans...have very little in the way of indigeonous AAMs. The USN would wipe them out. [Darth Sideous Mode on] All of them [/Darth Sideous Mode]
(3) Well, when you're right, you're right..
Fortunatly, Europe has even longer supply lines. Most convoys could be smashed before they reached Europe. Unless, of course, Europe moved signifigant Naval power to protect them. In which case, American SSNs and SSGNs would have a even easier time of sneaking up to the European coast and blasting targets.
(4) Station, station, station....
I bet Turkey would be more than happy to let use fly planes outta their country. After all, the EU "Christian Club" hasn't been letting them for quite awhile. Plus, any thing to bloody the Greeks.
I also predict Greenland and Iceland would fall to a American Invasion quicker than you can say "McDonalds!".
(5)Sheer size of Europe? How quaint! You think your contient is big! :P
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Akka whatever your name is (  )
You're right about the French armored division taking part in the spearhead to drive out the Iraqis.
Although that was 12 years and a Cold War ago. Doubt the European Militaries are what they onvce were.
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Jack_www
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If I were to attack the EU, the first step would be to get out of NATO. Then I would seek an millitary alliance with Russia. I would do this by showing that the US has changed its attitude with EU, that we hate them now. Russia has does not like NATO, and views it as an threat to them, so it might not be that hard. Then get Russia to accept the idea of a war with EU, and agree to let them kept large parts of EU, bascily dividing it in two between the two countries, and lure them with the prospect of becoming a major world power once again. The main purpose of this alliance would not be so much millitary support, but a area were an invasion of Europe could be staged.
Once this is done, start moving troops and bombers into Russia, tyring to kept troop movements secert, and give them a cover story, and make troops amounts look small. Then start the attack. The first stage would be to gain air suppority over Europe. First send in Stealth bombers to take out air defenses and try and strike airplanes as they sit on the ground. After most ground airdenfense systems have been taken out, the new target of bombing would be the industry of the major industrial powers in Europe. This would go on as long as it needed to take, if it took years, so be it. Once the bombing phase is done start a land invasion of europe form both sides, have two forces, on invade Britain, and one invade Eastern Europe support with Russian troops. Then make Europe fight a two front war and take country by country, and have havy airsupport for ground troops.
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Jack_www
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This would be my plan to invade the EU. First would be to get stealth tech, if we dont already have it by the time plan is being formed. Then being major build up of millitary, navy, and airforce( most of the build up in the airforce would be the new stealth bombers that we have designed). Then seek an alliance with Mexico. Try and do what Germany failed to do in WWI, that is get an alliance with Mexico against US. Lure them with promice of gaining back the lands they lost years and years ago. Then Try and get Canada to ally with us as well. Also talk to Panama, since they now own Panama Canal( the US just handed over the Canal to Panama just a couple of years ago, they had leased the land form Panama to build the Canal in the early 1900's). This way gaining controll of Panama Canal will be easy.
If all these alliances are sucessfull, then start moving troops into those countries. I would try and make a rebellion or some other thing to happen, and get aproval form UN or NATO to send "peace keeping" troops to Mexico, and Panama, but not all at the same time. Then start moving in troops, moving in more troops than what the rest of the world thinks we are moving into Mexico. I would also get oil producing coutries in middle east to ally with me aganist US, that should not be that hard to do.
THen we create a internation crisis in the World, with etheir Iraq or North Korea, or both, and get US to send large amounts of troops to those areas. Then while the US millitary is busy there we attack with out warning. I would send inmy new stealth bombers and take out air denfenses in US, and also target the main base for US slealth aircraft, I know that all stleath bombers are stationed in one airbase, forget were it is now though. Also launch massive amounts of jet fighters to destroy US fighter aircarft. Then land invasion begins, sliplt US in two. Also attack form Canada as well. I would also send a force from Canada to attack the capital, and try and take the city.
Some people in here take this too seriously, this is not for real, just stuff we are making up in our heads, and I dont think would ever see all the EU and US attacking each other, at least inour lifetime.
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12-05-2002 03:41
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