06-06-2002 10:00									#31
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USA is turning into.. Israel

USA=Israel=USA=Israel=USA=Israel

like it should be.

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

On a more cheery note, pichy witchy non trolling and all that.... there is a funny sidenote.

Greek ID cards already have a fingerprint for decades.

And now it is being abolished as anti-constitutional and non compatible with the laws of protection of sensitive personal data.

Being abolished here, taken up in the US...

	06-06-2002 10:09									#32
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quote: Originally posted by nationalist Che, you can't actually compare this to Nazi Germany with a straight face, can you?

There are indeed some commonalities though. And I'm afraid that, if in a similar position, the EU would be taking similar steps. This is all theoretical though thank Allah.

quote: Why can't a state take sercurity measures? Why should we let everyone in the world freely roam in and out of our country with no supervision or questioning? That is ridiculous.

Yes, and plenty of Syrian people are blonde. Kind of screws up racial profiling doesn't it?

And who's to stop them to come to the US via transit from another country, or, very easily, have fake passports that prortray them from other countries?


A blonde Syrian nuclear suicide attacker travelling on a German passport. Easy to do. How are these laws going to stop him? All they accomplish is pissing off the largest part of the world (namely muslims) for no reason at all.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

	06-06-2002 10:11									#33
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quote: Originally posted by nationalist Che, you can't actually compare this to Nazi Germany with a straight face, can you?

You caught me.

	06-06-2002 10:16									#34
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edited because I can feel a banning rod comming my way in an unpleasant fashion.

Last edited by Bereta_Eder on 06-06-2002 at 10:34

	06-06-2002 10:19									#35
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Don't ignore us! Our boys killed babies too!

	06-06-2002 10:20									#36
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screw you polar bear, arse licking lackeys like yourselves hardly count. You can dissapear tomorrow and the world would be the same. Istill remember you being pissed off at Bush for calling the UK the US's closest ally

	06-06-2002 10:21									#37
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Oh, like Greece is so relevant.

	06-06-2002 10:24									#38
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You can't even get your marbles back...

	06-06-2002 10:28									#39
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We have decided to put the planespotters in the position of the marbles in the facade of Acropolis. Build them in.

	06-06-2002 10:36									#40
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BTW I bet you that in 10 to 20 years they'll be here. (the marbles that is).

Wanna bet?

They exist for millenia a couple of decades is no biggie. If the brits weren't so scared of what it means to give them back or so uptight they would be here today.
Oh well, typical.

	06-06-2002 10:37									#41
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Yes, and plenty of Syrian people are blonde. Kind of screws up racial profiling doesn't it? And who's to stop them to come to the US via transit from another country, or, very easily, have fake passports that prortray them from other countries? A blonde Syrian nuclear suicide attacker travelling on a German passport. Easy to do. How are these laws going to stop him? All they accomplish is pissing off the largest part of the world (namely muslims) for no reason at all. Correct me if I'm wrong.

That's why I think that we should identify and monitor all aliens attempting to come to America. Like I previously posted, monitor the Brit as well as the Arab. If a white christian foreigner is threatening American lives, deport him as quickly as you would deport an Islamic Arab.

	06-06-2002 10:40									#42
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quote: Originally posted by nationalist That's why I think that we should identify and monitor all aliens attempting to come to America. Like I previously posted, monitor the Brit as well as the Arab. If a white christian foreigner is threatening American lives, deport him as quickly as you would deport an Islamic Arab.

Fair enough.

Now there is the question of whether it is possible to monitor all the people coming to visit the US each year.... also to what extend will those checks be. Is it feasable?

I admit I don't know the answer to that.

	06-06-2002 10:44									#43
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You're a bit of a madman, nationalist. The governments of the northern border states might have something to say about that, since they depend on our trade for their survival, and vice-versa...

	06-06-2002 10:50									#44
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quote: New arrivals from the designated countries would be fingerprinted at airports or seaports and be required to register with the Immigration and Naturalization Service after 30 days in the country, officials said. Violators could be fined, refused re-entry into the United States or possibly deported.

What exactly is so wrong about this? Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the US have the right to determine what the laws are concerning incomming visitors? And Imran, you never seemed to be to concerned about the US deporting Mexicans who had broken the laws on entering the US. When someone mentioned that it was wrong your argument usually was, well its the law that we have to follow. Ya can't pick and choose which laws you want to follow.

	06-06-2002 10:55									#45
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Sprayber, the thing is: let's suppose I was a Syrian. A law abiding non fanatical, non religious, non violent Syrian like the majority are.

And let's suppose I boarded a plane to come to the US along with a Frenchman. We talk in the plane, we let the time go by and we arrive in the US.

There the french person would casualy pass the customs office and I would be treated EXACTLY like a criminal having committed a crime. Why? because I'm Syrian.

How does that look to you? It doesn't make any sense because it doesn't serve what they want the law to do and it can be bypassed WAY too easily. (as mentioned).

	06-06-2002 10:57									#46
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Not to mention that after that, I won't be a so neutral towards the US Syrian anymore..

	06-06-2002 11:05									#47
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse You're a bit of a madman, nationalist. The governments of the northern border states might have something to say about that, since they depend on our trade for their survival, and vice-versa...

I feel the same way about you Krazy.

I don't think that this measure would interfere with trade for too long. Simply register the people who are crossing the border to do the trade. If they don't cause any trouble then they are welcomed visitors. Canada could do the same thing to Americans. I wouldn't care if the Canadian government fingerprinted me before letting me in.

	06-06-2002 11:07									#48
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Sprayber, the thing is: let's suppose I was a Syrian. A law abiding non fanatical, non religious, non violent Syrian like the majority are. And let's suppose I boarded a plane to come to the US along with a Frenchman. We talk in the plane, we let the time go by and we arrive in the US. There the french person would casualy pass the customs office and I would be treated EXACTLY like a criminal having committed a crime. Why? because I'm Syrian. How does that look to you? It doesn't make any sense because it doesn't serve what they want the law to do and it can be bypassed WAY too easily. (as mentioned).

I would say that you as, a Syrian, should ask yourself why they are treating a Syrian any different from a frenchmen or a Argintine, or a Russian or a Nigerian. And you, as a Syrian, should ask yourself what makes me different from say a Morrocon. If you, as a Syrian, is being treated like an Iranian or an Iraqi then you, as as a Syrian, should ask what the hell Syria is doing to deserve you being treated like a criminal.


That's just my opinion.

	06-06-2002 11:11									#49
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And that could very easily be the REAL intention of that law.

it won't affect the average man, it just make him negative towards the US, but it could maybe affect the businessmen.

using the term "terrorism" to apply preasure even if that country does not threaten the US and has nothing to do with terrorism against the US but instead threatens its interests financial or otherwise (namely Israel in this case).

could be.
(but will be seen as exactly that by the rest of the world )

	06-06-2002 11:12									#50
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Not to mention that after that, I won't be a so neutral towards the US Syrian anymore..

Somehow, I don't think there are many Syrians there that are neutral Paiktis. The one Syrian that I know here in Arkansas seemed quite amused by Sept 11. Despite him being here for a education, he seemed to have a problem with America. I asked him why he was here in the first place if he didnt like it here, he didnt seem to have any answer.

	06-06-2002 11:14									#51
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neutral as in "I won't become a suicide bomber"

in any case, a treatement of him as a criminal will only serve to increase these feelings.


also as to why he is there, why are mexicans there? to make some bucks

But he is way better off in the US that in his own country... truth be told.

	06-06-2002 11:22									#52
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quote: Originally posted by nationalist I feel the same way about you Krazy. I don't think that this measure would interfere with trade for too long. Simply register the people who are crossing the border to do the trade. If they don't cause any trouble then they are welcomed visitors. Canada could do the same thing to Americans. I wouldn't care if the Canadian government fingerprinted me before letting me in.

Who cares what the whiners say. if someone looks like a arab at the boarder pull them out of the car and search it. Of cource people are going to be screaming bloody murder bla bla bla. Then when something like sept 11 comes around they all keep their mouths shut for a while. I remember a few months ago warren buffet was asked what he thought and he said, it isn't a question of if the usa gets attacked by a chemical or nuclear weapon by terrorists but a question of when. he seamed to think a attack could happen in the next 50 years.. people have to wake up from their dream world and face reality!

	06-06-2002 11:24									#53
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Why should Syrians become suicide bombers? There are still plenty of Palestinians and Saudies willing to do that.


The guy I'm talking about wasn't treated as a criminal. He is free to drive from state to state. He is free to buy what he wants. He is free to go to the mosque. But god forbide someone dare to take precautions and keep track of what he does by simply requiring him to register and keeping his prints. Maybe this way he won't stay here 5 years after his visa runs out. By the way, fingerprinting isn't only used for criminals. Many groups are fingerprinted.

Hell I've been figerprinted twice in my life and I have never been arrested for anything.

	06-06-2002 11:29									#54
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As far as I'm concerned, everyone entering the US for anything other then short visits should be required to do this. This is why we have people coming here for work or school and staying here long after their visias have expired without wanting to become a citizen. This should have been going on all along instead of just letting them get lost in the population. Muslim, chirstian, buddist, athiest, it doesnt matter.

	06-06-2002 12:51									#55
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In fact lot of EU countries are voting for more drastitic immigration policies. But in France, I don't thing that you have to be fingerprinted to have a french visa.

	06-06-2002 12:56									#56
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quote: in any case, a treatement of him as a criminal will only serve to increase these feelings.

"why punish the planespotters? it may make other Brit planespotters think that there are actually decent aircraft in Greece."

	06-06-2002 14:09									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov He wants to make the country safer for WASPs, that's about all he cares about.

It's about time the Republicans started paying more attention to environmental issues, but is this complete focus on wasps really the answer? Unless they can be shown to be a belleweather species I suspect that Ashcroft could do more if he expanded his protections to all flying insects, or even insects at large.

	06-06-2002 14:11									#58
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This is merely an attempt to update and make more fair our current policy if treating Muslim criminals as guests.

	06-06-2002 14:17									#59
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Registration provisions make some sense. But what's the point with fingerprinting ? We only use that for asylum seekers with unclear identity, so that they don't run through the process again and again.

If an unknown suicide bomber enters the country on a fake ID and then kills himself in a terrorist act, what exactly is the benefit of having his fingerprints ? If it is about prossible support structures, it will only do something if they are stupid enough to leave clues...

	06-06-2002 15:54									#60
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I personally don't have any issue's with having my finger prints or photo's stored if im visiting the US .. but then, ive got nothing to hide. The Americans are entitled to have whatever laws they deem fit, if people/I don't like it, then don't visit.

If as Americans you are not happy with your countries laws, you have the right to challenge it, or vote the appropriate people out. Its your country, you make it what you want.

Although I feel sorry that this law will concentrate on middle eastern/south asians, I think its completely understandable .. As an English male, if I attend a football match abroad, im treated as though I may be a hooligan .. yet, I understand why .. a tiny minority of people have given English football supporters a bad name .. equally, it should be understood, a tiny minority of arab/south asians have given arab/south asians a bad name .. its not fair, but each country is completely entitled to its own opinion ..