12-07-2002 18:55									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Keygen Quinns is right. I would have done the same probably if I were into his shoes. Having little available time and postponing other things just to play in a tournament that never comes can be an offense. I was ready to play you on Saturday but that won't happen eventually Well, we shall meet on the PBEM Tournament then

Right. Sorry Keygen, no match this weekend, I'm out. Maybe we can start up a one vs. one PBEM... if you like? I am playing Birdman and berXpert now via PBEM one v. one.

	12-07-2002 19:00									#92
	Increase Your PM Length

Steve, we're down with 14 players now... and I can't see anyone playing. If it continues like this, I feel I'll just shut the whole thing down... so much effort spent on creating the map, organizing the tournament, hammering the rules, a tournament supposed to see the best CtP player. Ehh .

	12-07-2002 19:20									#93
	Increase Your PM Length

It is a shame. Maybe it is time to visit Civ3 and Civ3 Play the World.

	12-07-2002 19:26									#94
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well if you get your hands on PtW before it's released, congrats .

You know, IMO, Civ 3 is a great game, but the again, I've prefered the more traditional way to some of the things in CtP. It's an enjoyable SP game, and promises to be an even more enjoyable MP game. Just don't read posts by Coracle, and you'll find it quite nice .

If you post in the Civ 3 forums, I'm there, too, all the time.

	14-07-2002 12:33									#95
	CIV3 Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by quinns It is a shame. Maybe it is time to visit Civ3 and Civ3 Play the World.

I found CIV3 to be exceptionally disappointing. I can't say if I would EVER consider re-installing the pig. It didn't matter how many patches they gave it... a pig is still a pig no matter how much lipstick you put on it. As for a multi-player version, they are going to have to PROVE to me that it is worth it before I would even consider looking at it.

The game was released far too early. No movement by stacks; no multi-unit combat; workers were a HUGE waste of time as I found I spent far more time running around fixing problems than actually playing the game; tech advancements were nothing special; the new idea of "appearing" goods was great... except for the NO BRAINER of not providing critical goods like coal on all continents. I played one game where there was ONE coal hex in the entire map (largest map) and no new ones ever popped up. I did like the air power, but once again, no combined attack capabilities. Multiple AI was a joke. They basically GAVE any and all tech to each other. Might as well have just called them all one civ that you were playing against. Military conquest was exceptionally difficult unless you could get a huge lead in tech. There didn't seem to be any room for "tactics". Combat just seemed to be like trench warfare... send them over the top and hopefully you lose less than they do.

However, after wasting 2 months playing that PIG... YES, PIG!... I would have to conclude that CIV3 should have been called CIV2.5. It was a step up from CIV2, but a HUGE step backwards from CTP.

yoda

PS: 14 sounds good for the tourney. Who knows, it may drop lower as it seems each opponent I get started with drops out. Who's next? I'm available starting Monday... LOL

	14-07-2002 15:54									#96
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Yoda - what you are saying just clearly shows you prefer CtP over Civ. While PtW has stacked movement, Civ 3 will never have multi unit combat, and Civ 4 won't either, for single unit combat is among the main rules of Civ.

I'm getting the impression tourney will drop down to 2 . Someone, play!

	14-07-2002 22:14									#97
	AI Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Solver Yoda - what you are saying just clearly shows you prefer CtP over Civ. While PtW has stacked movement, Civ 3 will never have multi unit combat, and Civ 4 won't either, for single unit combat is among the main rules of Civ. I'm getting the impression tourney will drop down to 2 . Someone, play!

Have you ever thought about why CIV3 didn't have multi-unit combat? It's because they couldn't program the AI to be effective. That was the big problem with the CTP AI. It wasn't too bad until they had to deal with stacking.

The goal of the CIV3 game designers was to sell games. Period! 99% of the people weren't looking for multi-playing capabilities as all they wanted was to sit down and play on the computer whenever they felt like it. So, the designers did not need to make the game as interesting or challenging as CTP. All they needed to do was to make the AI tough enough so that people wouldn't get bored too quickly.

Anyway, sorry about going on so much over CIV3. This isn't the place for this discussion so I won't post about it again... LOL

Once again, anyone up for a tourney game next week? Keygen, now that Quinns is not playing, do you want to try and get one started next week?

yoda

	14-07-2002 22:23									#98
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I've talked to many who complain, but I must admit, though, I prefer single-unit combat. And don't tell me CtP AI is better .

Best of luck to start a game to you and Keygen.

	15-07-2002 03:00									#99
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Just dropping in to see how things are going... or rather not going.... I fully understand the reasons for some having to leave the Competition, but there are still 14 people left, each with 13 games to play... Why not relax the rules - and just say 'play' however you see fit, be it a premade map, random map, Huge, small, exclusions, no exclusions whatever - It is fairly obvious that it is becoming a chore to some people - Why not just thrash out the rules for each game, play and move on to the next game..... There is still a Grand available for the winners nominated Charity....

Now I will be off back to making my second million... I never realised how much CTP screwed with my life and my Business... I won't be playing CTP anymore, but I won't be leaving the community either!

	15-07-2002 03:10									#100
	Suffering from ads?

Your so full ****. Coming in here talking about your cars, 13 yachts, Supermodels and millions! We all know your faking it! No one can make millions in todays economy


Unless your a sideshow. Are you a sideshow?


Have another beer faded
Dont mind if I do!

	15-07-2002 13:34									#101
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Thanks for seeing, Gav . When you get your third million, be sure to buy something from the Apolyton Store .

I'd love it if the guys still played on the tournament map, but now I no longer care about the schedule, play whenever you see each other. I mean, if games are played on a random maps, and with different settings, the tourney really loses its aim.

	15-07-2002 21:47									#102
	Faded Got spare money?

Hey Faded, nice to see someone else post. Are you interested in playing a tourney game this week?

yoda

	16-07-2002 14:46									#103
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

im still around after work and maybe 1 day in the weekend this weekend if anyone wants a game

	17-07-2002 15:27									#104
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Re: CTP Tournament:

You called it right from the start Paul. This tournament wuz going to go nowhere.

And you know why? Cuz most of the people who entered the tournament are a bunch of neutered puppies...there is no other possible explanation.

First there wuz Gavrushka: if you devoted as much time to actually playing CTP tourney as you did mouthing off in the tricks and exploits column, you would have easily been able to play. Then Filix....I saw the game....Yoda had him whupped, and then he 'adjourned' the game. After 3 times arranging follow-up times...he never showed, then vanished. Swissy...you said you needed a new graphics card...that wuz a month ago...nothing but silence since then. Quinns....a whimpering exit. Patryn, Catete, BerXpert, Nukeboy, Darth Viper...not a SINGLE posting since the first draw was formed....pathetic.

Dr. Doom

	17-07-2002 16:20									#105
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Dr. Doom1 Re: CTP Tournament: You called it right from the start Paul. This tournament wuz going to go nowhere. And you know why? Cuz most of the people who entered the tournament are a bunch of neutered puppies...there is no other possible explanation. First there wuz Gavrushka: if you devoted as much time to actually playing CTP tourney as you did mouthing off in the tricks and exploits column, you would have easily been able to play. Then Filix....I saw the game....Yoda had him whupped, and then he 'adjourned' the game. After 3 times arranging follow-up times...he never showed, then vanished. Swissy...you said you needed a new graphics card...that wuz a month ago...nothing but silence since then. Quinns....a whimpering exit. Patryn, Catete, BerXpert, Nukeboy, Darth Viper...not a SINGLE posting since the first draw was formed....pathetic. Dr. Doom

REALITY BITES DA BIG ONE..HUH..FELLAS??

	17-07-2002 16:39									#106
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Doom, please keep it insult free... but I am darn disappointed... after 2 months, of everyone being *very* enthusiastic and drooled about the tourney, hammering out the rules, setting prizes... is this it?

	18-07-2002 00:56									#107
	Tourney Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I would like to echo something that Dr. Doom said... pathetic! Let's face it, everyone knows who the best CTP players are. The top three are (in no particular order) me, paul and dr. doom. Filix and dragon are up there, but would probably get their buts kicked in this tournament which is why they aren't playing. As for the rest, anyone who contests this assumption of mine should put their time where their comments are and prove it by playing!

It's a real shame. Dragon stated that this map isn't the kind of CTP he likes to play. I got news for you... this map is exactly what makes or breaks a good ctp player. Yes, because of it's size and the number of goods, it eliminates the early "quick win" scenarios. However, there is still plenty of room to try quick attacks and devious strategies. It really was a great map and hats off to JByTheWay for designing it. I believe there was more genius in the map than even the designer realized with the way movement worked out, trade good locations and potential city sites. This map is not the SOL battle game and rewards the patient player. However, is that all bad? So what if you don't have 20,000 SOLs running around participating in a huge slug fest? Do you miss it?

One of the things I was going to suggest after this tournament got under way was to have a series of games covering various scenarios. Play the "big game" on this map, an all sea map on a huge map, an all land map on a huge map and then a mixed or random map on a regular size map. Perhaps some with certain wonders, perhaps some without pollution or other factors. Then, add up the number of wins under each situation to find out who the best all round player would be. However, given the pathetic interest showed in this tournament, I think everyone can forget trying anything a bit more complex.

Paul, Dr. Doom... should we set up a series of maps as suggested above and play them to find out who the real CTP champion is? Perhaps each of us could design one map and then have a 4th map randomly created (as well as jbytheway's map)...

yoda

	18-07-2002 01:06									#108
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Nice try Doc! But you won't be able to jump start this tourney by insulting everyone either. However, I do have time to play this map out in PBEM. I promise I will not cheat as long as you don't. I will play you, Dr. Doom, via PBEM using the tourney map. Do you accept the challenge? Or will you back down and say "Oh my, PBEM just takes too long to play!".

Last edited by quinns on 18-07-2002 at 04:07

	18-07-2002 01:29									#109
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Quinns:

We'll be at retirement age by the time a PBEM tourney is ever completed. No thanks.

But I'll play you online anytime.

And let me repeat what I said: There were far too many mysterious disappearances by players to be a coincidence.

The truth is out there.

Dr. Doom

	18-07-2002 04:05									#110
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Doc: I'm not talking about a tourney via PBEM. I'm saying just one PBEM game between me and you. With maybe two turns per day, we could finish in less than six months -- not by retirement. It is an enjoyable way to play CTP! I have played 4 complete games this way. One game lasted well past the 200 turn mark and only took about 4 months to complete.

I tried to set aside time to play on-line and it almost always was a bust. (As many others will agree to.) On-line games rarely finish, but many PBEM matches do finish.

Quinns

	18-07-2002 04:43									#111
	online games Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by quinns Doc: I'm not talking about a tourney via PBEM. I'm saying just one PBEM game between me and you. With maybe two turns per day, we could finish in less than six months -- not by retirement. It is an enjoyable way to play CTP! I have played 4 complete games this way. One game lasted well past the 200 turn mark and only took about 4 months to complete. I tried to set aside time to play on-line and it almost always was a bust. (As many others will agree to.) On-line games rarely finish, but many PBEM matches do finish. Quinns

6 months to finish a game via PBEM. This tournament map would require about 8 to 10 hours of playing time for most games. The game I was playing with Filix took 8 hours to get to the point where I was taking 4+ cities a turn from him via paratroopers. Another 2 or 3 hours and the game would have been over if he didn't concede earlier.

6 months... yikes! That's a bit much to commit to for just one game!

	18-07-2002 04:52									#112
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Quinns:

Six months to complete a game of CTP??? You couldn't pay me enough to plod through that excersize.

I said I'll make time to play online anytime you want, for as long as you want. And that same offer stands for anyone else in the tournament.

Lack of available playing time, computer problems, complaints about the tourney map, etc. are not the real reason this CTP tournament can't make it off the ground. The real problem is missing testicles.

I think yoda has the right idea. Paul and me and yoda seem mostly to be the only ones interested in playing. So maybe we should just unilaterally declare ourselves to be the best CTP players in the world, and finish the tournament among oursleves.

Anyone wishing to dispute this claim can challenge.

Dr. Doom

	18-07-2002 06:57									#113
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Doom... I already challenged you, and you declined due to time constraints ... I thought time wasn't an excuse for not playing? If you want quick results, I'll play you in a 5 minute game of chess alright? And what is this continual crap about no testicles? Where do you live Doom? Maybe we can discuss this face to face?

	18-07-2002 07:07									#114
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by quinns Doom... I already challenged you, and you declined due to time constraints ... I thought time wasn't an excuse for not playing? If you want quick results, I'll play you in a 5 minute game of chess alright? And what is this continual crap about no testicles? Where do you live Doom? Maybe we can discuss this face to face?

WELL, he is a dr..or sez so his nic-name ..but I agree, no insults, sheesh, I got me bounced fer three days for steppingon Gavrushka's thread..a similiar one to this, to quote Rodney King, "Cant we all, just..get along??"

If not, meet you in the lobbies!!

Troll

	18-07-2002 07:13									#115
	Tired of ads?

You are right Troll!

	18-07-2002 08:06									#116
	Suffering from ads?

It's summer guys give this some time to get going evryone slows down in the summer.

BBBB (babes, beer, beaches and BBQs) Tis the season.

In the mean time play who you can and record the wins send the saves and someone will win.

	18-07-2002 08:44									#117
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Quinns:

My offer stands to play online, anytime, anyone who is still in the tournament.

Otherwise, don't waste my time.


Dr. Doom

	18-07-2002 10:45									#118
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

There is many reasons the tourney aint working, HUMAN NATURE is the big reason and the fact that our time zones are all different. The fact is i can play 5 days a week if i so desire. But odds on, I can only play doom yoda or dragon within that time. Due to the fact that, my after work is the middle of the night for most people. Where if i want to play a european or some americans one of us has to stay up all night. I can only do that Fridays and saturdays and thats if i stay home and dont do anything which dont happen to often anymore. So the only persons whose fault it is, is god for making the world round
Im sure other guys have far more commitments than me and have wives and babies breathing down there necks, So time to play can be quite limited for some.
Ok we have all been rather idle in trying to get games going, but hey, we are men what the f##k do you expect from us
Unless its chasing skirt we cant commit to ****.

Id just like to point out that im allways right and you all have been prooving my point

As quinns said its hard to get a game finished in online games. Well he may be right to some extent. The only pople i regurlalry finish against is my true ctp mates (filix and Dragon) and the people i can bash early.
Still yet to finsih a 1 v1 game with either yoda or doom.

YODA declared me and himself and doom the best 3. I tend to agree that me and him are 1st equal. Doom dragon and filix vary depending on the settings. Since doom and yoda generally play on their settings they get an unrealistic view of filix and dragons abilities. With nukes excluded my money would be on filix in a land game hands down. On a sea game dragon or filix on a regurlar map and doom on a bigger map.

Other than those players id rate my odds, in a 1 v2 game against any others, depending on the settings and rules. Im still keen to add a 3rd player in on the tourney map and play 2 v1 (-:. Still never lost a 2 v1 game YET.

	18-07-2002 11:11									#119
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Well Paul,

Whatever Filix and Dragon's CTP prowess may be, they still gotta play in the tournament in order to prove themselves to be something other than cannon fodder.

As it now stands, Filix disappeared at the first taste of defeat. And what about that Dragon? Haven't seen hide nor hair of him. Has he gone extinct?

Let's play our tournament game Paul. That way at least one game will have been completed.

Dr. Doom

	18-07-2002 14:12									#120
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Currently I'm the big fool sitting here several thousand kilometers away from most of you, and still hoping at least something will happen .

Now the tension here is getting hot... please CALM DOWN you all - I would really hate having to delete some posts here.

Quinns, are you so sure you'd beat Doom in just 5 minutes of chess, though?